There are practically no muslims left in this world.

[khushal]

Whatever you said is true, especially the two faced part. I some times wonder why are we like this? we even lie to ourselves, let alone others. There is no such thing as a muslim today, very few perhaps, like 1% of the population

Whenever I look at people from my country (Pakistan) I find them to be among the worst human beings in the world and the worst part is, I really dont know how to tell them that. Will it even change anything? what can I ( as a individual) do to change a whole society which is so corrupt and evil in everything. Same is true for Saudi Arabia, where I lived, they are also among the worst societies to ever exist. Non muslims here in Canada seem 100 times better then them to be honest

You are comparing Pakistani's(mostly poor that live in large families who have to use manipulative tactics to get the little resources that are available) to Americans/Canadians/West Europeans(richer who live in small families and most everything is available to them, kids get their own room).

Latin American say the same thing about their own people.

[abassinafghan]

once again , political ,economical , sociological and enviormental problems and issues are addressed with religion .

being a muslim , dosent make you an angel nor a better person .

there have been always prostitutes, thiefs ,robbery and all kind of missbehaviour and injustice in muslims countries like in other countries . yes in the west its more visible ,and because its not persecuted or accepted to some degree also more widespread.
but you should question yourself why ? most people consider the igenorance of society as freedom , and their idea of freedom is getting laid and saturdaynight drink .

just because some one is born to muslim parents or a country/society with major muslim population , it doesnt make him or her a "good" muslim or person.

the annoying part is as bad pornography ,adultery ,alcohol and drugs are , they are quiet minor problems compared to problems , of mass unemployment , undernutrition , lack of education , bad governance and lack of political leadership ,economical unbalance and underdevelopment .

to close down musicstores , bars , borthels ,cinemas etc. is very easy ,

but i have yet to see a talibs, selfproclaimed pious muslim , ikhwani ,salafis and who not who is crying muslim muslim to address those above mentioned problems .

its easy to distract people by denie them a better future and hide their own incompetence or let us say lack of ideas by telling how great they are to stop certain behaviours and concentrate on how long ones beard is . while others are flying to the moon or mars

[Manzareh]

i think better research needs to be done on what actions make a Muslim leave the fold of Islam. Just because Muslims may sin does not mean they are no Muslims left in the world.

[Badlun]

These people have existed since the dawn of Islam on mankind and the revitalization of Islam by the Nabi. The only difference between then and now was that the Muslims back then achieved far more than the Muslims of today. We still have strong believers but we don't have trend setting scholars, scientists, explorers, generals, sociologists, doctors, and the like which we still read about today and respect. There were always kafirs and murtads in the past but their beliefs are now socially and financially supported by the west which makes them more of a threat now than in the past. Nevermind what you think of him, but Khomeini said symbolically that he feared short skirts more than he did western armies.

Can you please diagnose the problem further and enlighten us that why Muslims have believers but no trend setting scholars? You mentioned the fact , but not the causes and solution. Who stops the Muslims not to have great people like non Muslims? Is it the problem of Islam or Muslims?

[Da Bannu Mazdigar]

Most of the muslim world is still in developing phase,Ask me the same 80years from now

[Karachi]

highest watchers? where did you get that from?

http://www.getbig.com/boards/index.php?topic=475550.0

it''s basically the highest search for porn, it was all over the news

[Karachi]

You are comparing Pakistani's(mostly poor that live in large families who have to use manipulative tactics to get the little resources that are available) to Americans/Canadians/West Europeans(richer who live in small families and most everything is available to them, kids get their own room).

Latin American say the same thing about their own people.

actually I have sympathy with the poor. I am talking about the rich and powerful, they steal most of the money in Pakistan and keep in their foreign accounts.

also I am not just focusing on corruption, I am looking at the society as whole, whatever Al Hanif said in his first post is true, we are big big big hypocrites. we say something else and almost always do something else, we are double faced

[khushal]

http://www.getbig.com/boards/index.php?topic=475550.0

it''s basically the highest search for porn, it was all over the news

That source is from wikiislam which is an islamophobic website. But when I googled it came up on Foxnews as the only major news network that reported it not to mention Hindustan times.

But I don't want to commit an ad hominem fallacy so I thought we should see how google does its trend and this is what I came up with.

http://www.skeptical-science.com/religion/google-trends-pakistan-ranks-no1-porn/

The data Trends produces may contain inaccuracies for a number of reasons, including data-sampling issues and a variety of approximations that are used to compute results. We hope you find this service interesting and entertaining, but you probably wouldn’t want to write your Ph.D. dissertation based on the information provided by Trends.

so I would take the paki thing with a grain of salt

[khushal]

A more reliable way to find out is look at where the revenue comes from(follow the money) and here it is, the winner is china followed by south korea, japan, US.
http://familysafemedia.com/pornograp...s.html#anchor1

Nelly-Must be the money *GREAT QUALITY!* - YouTube

[RevolutionThroughReason]

Khushal, well played. .......you've matured in your argumentation methods. awesome job.

[randolph85]

Can you please diagnose the problem further and enlighten us that why Muslims have believers but no trend setting scholars? You mentioned the fact , but not the causes and solution. Who stops the Muslims not to have great people like non Muslims? Is it the problem of Islam or Muslims?

Why would it be a problem of Islam when it was Islam who created brilliant men in all walks of life that conquered the fields in which they practiced their crafts? In a time when Islam was central to social life unlike today, no less.

Besides the generic rhetoric of reestablishing a Caliphate, I don't know the exact solution because if I did I would be the Caliph instead of some guy on a forum offering commentary on subjects on things I have interesting in and a limited amount of knowledge.