Turk in Germany bashes other muslims/immigrants

[HalloIsBack]

Here we go again !

Im not one of those Muslims who blame everything on the West or Israel but
Dammit the west ruined the Middle East and you cant deny that ! And Europeans did migrate to foreign places and imposed their culture on others

I think the biggest mistake us muslims made in modern History is : Instead of fighting the Soviet union , we should have united with them against the West!

so muslims are fighting with kafir
and what would happen after it?

[Tjanaparh]

I do not know a single Muslim who is not happy in his own country and want to migrate to other country will prefer a Muslim country to a developed western country. Those who are in Middle East cannot go to USA or Canada or Germany because they cannot get visas. Muslims pay hundreds of thousands of dollars of bribe but want to go to the west for jobs and permanent residence. They die in boats but wish to reach the paradise of the West.

My religion is Islam, my culture and society is Pashtunwali and my politics is democracy. Democracy is not just Western. Pashtun jerga system has similarities with democratic system. The problem is adult suffrage in jergas. In democracy individual matters while in jerga the elders. I should copy the West in politics, development, science, rule of law not necessarily in culture or religion.

An example is our honorable Torkham, I know further Tajiks wo moved from Germany to Arab countries. What You say about "paradise west", is not alone a Muslim problem, it exists far beyond the Muslim world, and even far beyon reasons like poverty and war. To give an example, a lot of Armenians or Georgians or even Russians left their houses, everything, to setlle in the west without any property.
Often reasons are economic....

If You should copy the West in politics and development You need first to colonize some countries, assimilatee or "reduce" the locals, a few 10 year later make another movement to condemn the bad deeds of you past movement declare everybody brother and intervent in everyones affairs who will try to be same way cruel as You. You should further make look the culture of your colonies to be attributed as yours, lets say if you colonize Armenia, than the Bokhi of Armenia should be known worldwide as the Pashtuns Bokhi, sold as a trademark and exported from your empire to other countries (surely for that you need to have some sheap workers on the hills of Hadrut who will collect the Bokhi for You, will learn Your language and will wish to move to your country, but hey, don't make them move - otherwise who will collect the Bokhi for your empire - you have to make strict visa rules, and pick only those who can be used to bring your empire forward. Also don't forget that while the Hadrutis and Kotays are picking the Bokhi, they won't have a look how your shadow firm will get all the molybdenum in the mountains of Kotayq. On the TV however you should condemn this fact saying "Armenia needs to make democracy, it uses their people, if the president doesn't want reforms we make sanctions. How to procede further ? Your sanctions may weaken your Bokhi collectors, in that time you should create some provocations between the neighbouring Iran and Armenia, so that Iran will fear loss of influence and interfere in Armenia. In this moment you organize some Fedayi movements from your Bokhi collectors (pick up only the more brutals). After the war with Iran will be over you should radicalize the Fedayi group so that your working Bokhi collectors will lament, now you can interfere directly in the region out of your worries on democracy in Hadrut and Kotayq. Secretly make ome military bases close to Iran making people think its for their protection. It can be usefull for the future. When you reach Hadrut don't forget to make some propaganda that all the production of Hadrut is useless and that their fabrics are out of standard, so that they close them and you bring your wn companies to sell your production ( or better to say the production of another colony under your name, bringing the price 300 times higher).
Try todestroy the mentality of the people and all their traditions, first create a desire and then condemn the traditions who condemn the desire.
Show the barbaric Kotayq to your own people to make them realize how barbaric the Marzpan of Kotayq is. Creaty also a comission that will call the Marzpan of Kotayq antidemocratic every time that he will try to fight the economical dependence of your contry. Show as often as You can that people of Kotayq want your lifestile and the Marzpan opresses them!

This is only the begining, because the Bokhi of Kotayq and Hadrut isn't enough to make your country a democracy, you also need power on the Mulberries of Shahrisabz, the cobras of Namibia and the Sumatran Salacca palm. And first of all you need power of minds, and make people thinks if they follow the comercial culture you will create, that they are very individualist and free. All this you should do without having any official power, make people elect on base on their economical affiliations, so that the legislature of the oponents the economcally weaker ones will try to conquist more Bokhi territory in Vayots dzor.

Also don't forget, the radical Fedayis of Hadrut need Your financal support to make Hadrut the heaven of terrorism (to condemn somebody you should invest in his condemnable behaviour first, making seem that you did it to protect the Hadrutis from Iranian intervention not expecting that these fedayis will be so barbaric).


And don't forget the most important, before you colonize Hadrut and Kotayq to leave them later free for use them economically without taking anymore political respponsability, before you do this however you need some 100 years of slavery to make the colonization of Hadrut hills possible.

Like that would be the plan.

[Bengal_Tiger]

Dear Bengali Tiger, I think majority ov Alrvis aren't Turks but Zaza, and they dislike Ataturk because of the Zaza genocide. The pro-Kemal Turkish Alevis are a minority as I know. Many Zazas moved to Germany because they got persecuted or better to say not treated well in Turkey.

Generaly goups like Yezdi, Alevi and Yarsani are of North-west Iranic substrates (Kurds, Zaza, Caspian Iranic peoples...), and derive most probably from one tradition.

Alevis consist of both Kurds and Turks.

Some Zazas consider themselves Kurds, some don't and consider the Kurumanci Kurds as Kurds and themselves as a distinct ethnic group.

In Turkey the head of the Kemalist CHP is a Zaza.

The head of the anti-Kemalist Kurdish nationalist BDP is a Zaza.

Dersim, where Ataturk's massacre of Alevi Zaza took place in 1937-38 is a Kemalist (i.e. CHP) stronghold. I don't know about Zaza's but ethnic Turkish Alevis in general consider Ataturk as a hero who created a secular Turkey which helped them against Sunni domination.

Yes, Kurds, Zazas are an Iranic people.

[Tjanaparh]

Alevis consist of both Kurds and Turks.

Some Zazas consider themselves Kurds, some don't and consider the Kurumanci Kurds as Kurds and themselves as a distinct ethnic group.

In Turkey the head of the Kemalist CHP is a Zaza.

The head of the anti-Kemalist Kurdish nationalist BDP is a Zaza.

Dersim, where Ataturk's massacre of Alevi Zaza took place in 1937-38 is a Kemalist (i.e. CHP) stronghold. I don't know about Zaza's but ethnic Turkish Alevis in general consider Ataturk as a hero who created a secular Turkey which helped them against Sunni domination.

Yes, Kurds, Zazas are an Iranic people.

Many Zazas had to leave Dersim, for other regions afterwards as I know, and many are abroad. You are right, some Zazas consider themselves part of Kurds, and some separate. I don't know, all the Zaza Alevis I met (I met them in Europe) were clearly anti-Kemalist.
The Alevi within themselves are also heterogenous as some consider themselves Muslim while others no. Most I knew considered themselves something separate. Many mythology they have are similar among other related people (e.g. Tolish, as I understand)

[Khostai]

Here we go again !

Im not one of those Muslims who blame everything on the West or Israel but
Dammit the west ruined the Middle East and you cant deny that ! And Europeans did migrate to foreign places and imposed their culture on others

I think the biggest mistake us muslims made in modern History is : Instead of fighting the Soviet union , we should have united with them against the West!

Muslims themself ruined the Middel East, the West manipulates every country, but somehow I don't see China or Indonesia falling in to war and anarchy.
I also don't deny the role of the West, but the bigest blame is on the people themself.

"You can only be a slave if you let others buy you".

And about uniting with Sovjet union, the socialist groups in Afghanistan and Iran tried that even in India there was movement towards socialism and getting closer to Sovjets to stop western imperialism, but the so called muslim brothers trusted more the people of the book that the communist kafirs of Russia. And this is the result.

[tuomittuelämään]

Muslims themself ruined the Middel East, the West manipulates every country, but somehow I don't see China or Indonesia falling in to war and anarchy.
I also don't deny the role of the West, but the bigest blame is on the people themself.

"You can only be a slave if you let others buy you".

And about uniting with Sovjet union, the socialist groups in Afghanistan and Iran tried that even in India there was movement towards socialism and getting closer to Sovjets to stop western imperialism, but the so called muslim brothers trusted more the people of the book that the communist kafirs of Russia. And this is the result.

I agree with your general sentiment until the bit suggesting that uniting with the Soviet Union against Western imperialism was an ideal solution. In all fairness, communism according to Marx hardly existed inside the Soviet state but that is another topic entirely that could take hours of discussion to dig into properly. The Soviet Union's foreign policies and strategies embodied imperialism in every classical sense of the definition. They may have given it a different face and made use of some clever slogans but in the end, the imperialist aspirations of the Soviet state were more than apparent.

[Khostai]

I agree with your general sentiment until the bit suggesting that uniting with the Soviet Union against Western imperialism was an ideal solution. In all fairness, communism according to Marx hardly existed inside the Soviet state but that is another topic entirely that could take hours of discussion to dig into properly. The Soviet Union's foreign policies and strategies embodied imperialism in every classical sense of the definition. They may have given it a different face and made use of some clever slogans but in the end, the imperialist aspirations of the Soviet state were more than apparent.

Yes that is true, but sovjet union didn't support extrem barabric groups like the west, they were more crefull with that becuase they were close to this countries and also had a big muslim population in the former sovjet states like Kazackstan, TAjikistan and Uzbeckistan.

The Sovjet Union didn't care that much about the human rights or what so ever, but at least you knew were they were standing, in contrast to the west who are friends with Saudi who don't even alowe women to drive a car let alone vote or be active in politics, so what is the difference between them and Talibs? Nothing they also sponcor terrorism and extremist groups, but the west says nothing.........

Even tough Sovjet Russia had an atheist ideology and detested religion, I never saw them burn Quran or using it as a toilet paper, when there is no day gone by and the west mocks Islam and insults it every time.

[Tjanaparh]

Yes that is true, but sovjet union didn't support extrem barabric groups like the west, they were more crefull with that becuase they were close to this countries and also had a big muslim population in the former sovjet states like Kazackstan, TAjikistan and Uzbeckistan.

The Sovjet Union didn't care that much about the human rights or what so ever, but at least you knew were they were standing, in contrast to the west who are friends with Saudi who don't even alowe women to drive a car let alone vote or be active in politics, so what is the difference between them and Talibs? Nothing they also sponcor terrorism and extremist groups, but the west says nothing.........

Even tough Sovjet Russia had an atheist ideology and detested religion, I never saw them burn Quran or using it as a toilet paper, when there is no day gone by and the west mocks Islam and insults it every time.

I think if SU had won the conflict between the two blocks, maybe the situation would be the same as today and we would say the same things on behalf of the USA.
The problem is actually the victory of the USA i think, otherwise maybe things would be different.
Concerning Muslims, I would say that in the later years of the SU after stalin it is like You actually said, but before Stalin, during the creation of the SU, the situation was a bit different, I don't want to insult aybody but the Jewesh revolutionaries of that time were quite agressive to any religion, Islam included.
Later on it changed, so in the 70ies-80ies for example even if You look Turkmen cinema, there are a lot of things on religion.
In this sense religious groups were tollerated but not appreciated openly.

Sure SU had its imperial initiatives , and exactly Afghanistan war was the cruel reality of that - it was the moral dead of the SU, that has shown not only to others but to itself, that all the ideology the made was empty words, After Afghanistan other conflicts broke out inside, and all the dirtyness conserved within the memory of men during decades, with some outer help broke out.

As a Chechen friend of mine said:"In few days all what before was seen as rightful and just has been qualificated as weak and potential victim. And to bring it to something from that moment on, you had to be cruel and evil."

[Badlun]

USSR like Arabs after Islam had a policy of physical annexation of all the countries it used to occupy and Russia was converted into USSR but the West or USA except the colonial past , never conquered a country and made it part of the Union. Communism is more akin to atheism but the West believes in secularism which is more balanced. Communism is dictatorial and some times barbaric while West is democratic.

Policies like Saudi Arabia are reflection of Realpolitik but ideologically there is no room of a Saudi kind of government in a democratic set up.

[Tjanaparh]

USSR like Arabs after Islam had a policy of physical annexation of all the countries it used to occupy and Russia was converted into USSR but the West or USA except the colonial past , never conquered a country and made it part of the Union. Communism is more akin to atheism but the West believes in secularism which is more balanced. Communism is dictatorial and some times barbaric while West is democratic.

Policies like Saudi Arabia are reflection of Realpolitik but ideologically there is no room of a Saudi kind of government in a democratic set up.

The difference is, that the west leared from colonial times that it is better not to have political responsability and use the countries of interest economically, leaving all the responsabilities on the local leaders. There is no need anymore to take any country officialy as part of USA or so on, because where they get influence, all is allready sold out.
Question is, what of both is better? to me my answer is none of both.

I find it really sick all these continuing, "we should alline with the west", "we should have allined with ussr" , Afghanistan has most probably no friends, if people won't get friend of themselves.

Communism and democracy by the way may both be dictatorial or not, depends on ambitions.

On TV you see in europe that "Armenia allined with Russia, evethough Armenias population wants to join Europe.."
I wonder where do they get their statistics from ?
Never anybody did a Panarmenian poll whom we want actually to join. How do they know what we want ?
Maybe we want make a union of Caucasian countries, maybe we want become part of Iran zameen, maybe we want to join the front of Belawaristan, maybe we want learn Chinese as we think thats the future and same way will got Sinified once, maybe we want to fight till the last bloodrop to remain independent of anybody or got extinct ?
How do your "democracies" know that our stupid president is undemocratic ang going against the will of whole Armenia if some sellout protesters on the center of yerevan say they want to join the EU?

Wake please up in reality dear Badlun, the nowdays democracies are as much
the free, argumented, educated and reasoned will of the people, as the communism was the freeing of the poors from enslavement.

[Pakwatan]

Oh the Irony, replace the word Turks with Pakistani Punjabis and Greeks with Indians.

Hahaha. You Karachi guys are so funny. I have seen enough times, that you guys preach about Islam and then openly eat Mcdonalds and drink alcohol. You guys are honestly the worst of the worst. I used to work at a hotel as manager, and the worst people were you people from Karachi. Not Indians, not whites and arabs were only a little bit worse than you.

It was so funny to hear your people speaking Urdu, as If I can't understand. With the emirates tag on the luggage and then openly asking me where they can buy black label liquor.

In Texas, you guys are the most beghairat people. I had even got a tip once from a Karachi guy for informing him where to buy alcohol in front of his wife. He said are you pathan? Then threw money at me. I told him that he can keep his 20 dollars for his mother or his other family.

So replace the word begairat with Karachi wala, and kanjar.

[Karachi]

Hahaha. You Karachi guys are so funny. I have seen enough times, that you guys preach about Islam and then openly eat Mcdonalds and drink alcohol. You guys are honestly the worst of the worst. I used to work at a hotel as manager, and the worst people were you people from Karachi. Not Indians, not whites and arabs were only a little bit worse than you.

It was so funny to hear your people speaking Urdu, as If I can't understand. With the emirates tag on the luggage and then openly asking me where they can buy black label liquor.

In Texas, you guys are the most beghairat people. I had even got a tip once from a Karachi guy for informing him where to buy alcohol in front of his wife. He said are you pathan? Then threw money at me. I told him that he can keep his 20 dollars for his mother or his other family.

So replace the word begairat with Karachi wala, and kanjar.

Funny, in Karachi we think that people from Punjab are the biggest drunks. Mujra and drinking is a well known past time in Punjab, it's all over the net. Most of pakistan alcohol industry is in Punjab, not Karachi.

And I dont understand why you get annoyed at being called Indian? I am not calling you hindu, but Punjabis are defiantly muslim Indians, what else they could be?

[RevolutionThroughReason]

I do not know why culturally Good Muslims do not go to Saudi Arabia, Sudan, Somalia, Afghanistan, Bnagladesh, Pakistan and Chad to live instead of the Kaafir West?

Religiously good Muslims can live anywhere because their religion is in their souls, hearts, houses not in streets, markets and parliaments. If the so called Muslim world does not provide them opportunity to lead a better life the West must take them but they should not impose their Arab culture in the name of Islam on others.

The West must differentiate between the cultural Muslims and the religious Muslims. Those want to impose Sharia in democratic societies must be banned as they are anti-state elements and will promote extremism and terrorism.

Firstly Arabic Culture is not synonymous with Islam because there are Arab Christians and thus are distinct things

Secondly cultural Muslim implies following Islam because of tradition rather than religious observants. The role of Shari'ah is observation of religious rules thereby a Religious Muslim would advocate Shari'ah and not as you say cultural Muslim

Thirdly; Let's flip your question around. If The West was providing a better life for these People then They wouldn't reject Assimilating with the West.

The fact is they just want economic benefit. Mawlana Rumi once wrote "discard the husk and keep the kernel" . So they discard the useless stuff about Western culture , the loose morals,secularism etc. And keep the benefits, Science, Economic power etc.

Fourth, they're not imposing Shari'ah on anyone else, just amongst themselves. Which is reasonable