Persian Nationalist Forgery

[BarakzaiAbdali]

The British Museum vouches that the supposed letter of Yazdgird III to Umar Bin Al Khattab (abuses are heaped upon Arabs and Islam in this letter) is indeed a forgery and traces its links:

https://sites.google.com/site/persianforgery/

Yet another evidence that subterfuge and blatant lies are a part and parcel of the very strategy of those that seek to establish a pseudo narrative of Persia and its influenced lands having offered (and potentially still offering) a monotheistic counterbalance to Islam.

The greater irony is that this propaganda belies a complete ignorance of Zurvanite Zoroastrianism which dominated Persia in the era of the Prophet Muhammad and Umar Bin Al Khattab.

The criticism of the Quranic ayah in Surah Rum, coming out of Persian Nationalist circles, is its weight towards Byzantium in the Battles between the Romans and the Persians.

Their argument goes something like this: How could the early Muslims be so ignorant of the purer monotheism of the Zoroastrians as opposed to the Trinitarian Christians?

The Zurvanites who saw the apex of their power in that very era actually believed in Duality, not the supreme Godhead of monotheism. They believed Ahura Mazda was the twin brother of Angra Mainyu (Ahriman).

This faux argument has extended into our own areas where some have argued that Pashtuns, like the Yazdegard letter, espoused a form of monotheism even before the coming of Islam. This argument finds its basis and its brotherhood with the lie based history peddled above.

This sort of pseudo historical thinking can be reflected in the countless myths propagated regarding Byazid Ansari and the Roshanite movement (Pir Roshan) as some sort of purer reflection of a native Pashtun religion more suitable than Islam. This is in spite of the fact that beyond Akhund Derwaza's devastating criticisms of the Roshanites, and Khushal Khan's own characterization of whatever was the original Roshiniyah catechism as heretical- we have no original texts to base such opinions on. Khushal Khan being against Mughal incursions and still deducing it to be a heresy adds further weight against this faux resistance symbolism and the predictable argument that mughal propaganda subverted a Pashtun religious renaissance.

In the end, the truth, i.e. Islam, always wins out as we see with the exposure of this letter.

[Admin Khan]

[MENTION=1772]BarakzaiAbdali[/MENTION]
Nearly everything, all the way, is Persian, and I too have wondered why such is the case. In fact, even Pashtuns are "Iranian people"; I'm as bamboozled as you.

[Kushan Prince]

^Pashtuns are an "Iranic" people not iranian. Big difference.

The persians have just hijacked the term and associate it with anything persian in Iran and give people the wrong impression that Iranian=Persian which is not true at all. You can say that they have an agenda to associate everything with them.

[pashtanajan]

Of course this is fake! Yazgird III's daughter Shahrbanu was Hussain Ibn Ali's wife.

[Kushan Prince]

Then I am sure you want the name Afghanistan to change to its true name, Iranicstan. right?

here you go,

Pashtun people (Pashto: پښتانه Pax̌tānə; also spelled Pakhtun or Pukhtun), also known as ethnic Afghans or Pathans,[13][14] are an Indo-European ethnicity from the subgroup of Eastern Iranians (historically called Aryans),

Now go face palm somewhere else.

[کیش]

here you go,



Now go face palm somewhere else.

Wikipedia as a source? so which one sounds better? Aryanistan (I know you love this one), Iranistan, Turkestan, or Farsiwanistan?
[MENTION=1058]Bengal_Tiger[/MENTION]

I hope you know your Bengali's are really a South East West Pakistani people

man, this is a record of face palms

[Kushan Prince]

Wikipedia as a source? so which one sounds better? Aryanistan (I know you love this one), Iranistan, Turkestan, or Farsiwanistan?
[MENTION=1058]Bengal_Tiger[/MENTION]

I hope you know your Bengali's are really a South East West Pakistani people

man, this is a record of face palms

Fine a non wikipedia source here;

Pashtuns are classified as an Iranian people (Iranic People), possibly as partial modern-day descendants of Bactrians and Saka-Scythians, an ancient Iranian group.[28] According to academic Yu. V. Gankovsky, the Pashtuns began as a "union of largely East-Iranian tribes which became the initial ethnic stratum of the Pashtun ethnogenesis

http://lukferi.webs.com

Happy zoia? And did you really have to insult Bengal Tiger in this thread i mean really? come on i hope you really didn't break you're arm with those constant face-palms.

[کیش]

Sorry to say I treat historians with a grain of sodium-free salt.

In reality,

Pashtuns are of a Southern/Eastern Afghan people speaking an Afghan language

anyone who says otherwise, is clearly with an agenda.

now please, my hand is sore from face-palming

[Badlun]

Let us discuss it objectively forgetting for a while that we are Muslims.

What Islam/Islamism has given to Pashtuns? If Pashtuns were not Muslims then what they would have missed? If there was no Islam or Islamism would there be still Taliban, Al Qaeda and the religious bigot-ism amongst Pashtuns?

Islam had given Arabs their global rule. But Persians and Pashtuns have got nothing substantially from Islam. Islam has otherwise increased their problems. Today Pashtuns are facing Taliban and its consequences while Iranians are ruled by Mullahs.

Nationalism without Islamism can carry Pashtuns to the heights of development where other secular nations have reached today.

I do recognize the spiritual and moral or religious role of Islam at individual or family's levels.

[Khostai]

Pashtuns Tajik and Persian being called Iranic, is like the Dutch,
Germans, Belgium people and English are called the German people?

[Da Bannu Mazdigar]

I believe definition of Indic or Iranic People classification is based off the Indic/Indian/Iranian Plateau

Iranian Plateau




This is probably the reason why they are classified with iranic People.

[RevolutionThroughReason]

Let us discuss it objectively forgetting for a while that we are Muslims.

What Islam/Islamism has given to Pashtuns? If Pashtuns were not Muslims then what they would have missed? If there was no Islam or Islamism would there be still Taliban, Al Qaeda and the religious bigot-ism amongst Pashtuns?

Islam had given Arabs their global rule. But Persians and Pashtuns have got nothing substantially from Islam. Islam has otherwise increased their problems. Today Pashtuns are facing Taliban and its consequences while Iranians are ruled by Mullahs.

Nationalism without Islamism can carry Pashtuns to the heights of development where other secular nations have reached today.

I do recognize the spiritual and moral or religious role of Islam at individual or family's levels.

Islam had given MUSLIMS their global rule remember Islam =/= Arabism. Many Muslims are Arabs but not all Arabs are Muslim. I think we need to withdraw from the narrative of associating Islam with Arab Nationalistic ambitions, this is merely an orientalist forgery that has been repeated over and over without much support except for a short period during the Ummayad era.

As for what it did for Perssians, this does not even need to be stated Persians were the inheritors of Islamic Empire for hundreds of years. It was only their straying from Islamic principles that hurt them. As for what it did for Pashtuns well I'd argue the reason why Pashtuns didn't benefit is because of Pashtun culture not letting Islam do its work and following Pashtun customs which are more based on ignorance than Islam. Pashtuns have yet to experience the true benefits of Islam simply because they won't allow it. It is not the fault of Islam if people don't follow its advice. If anything Nationalism is the wrong direction for Pashtuns, Pashtuns will only prosper when they become fully Islamic and abolish all aspects of Pashtun cultural practices, except for harmless ones like language, art , clothes and music etc. In fact it is not just Pashtuns that need Islam but the WHOLE world is required to have Islam as Islam is supposed to be a GLOBAL Ideology and not just for one group.

Nationalism and secularism are the biggest psychological diseases of humanity; people who endorse nationalism or secularism suffer from a mental illness and need treatment.

[Badlun]

Islam had given MUSLIMS their global rule remember Islam =/= Arabism. Many Muslims are Arabs but not all Arabs are Muslim. I think we need to withdraw from the narrative of associating Islam with Arab Nationalistic ambitions, this is merely an orientalist forgery that has been repeated over and over without much support except for a short period during the Ummayad era.

As for what it did for Perssians, this does not even need to be stated Persians were the inheritors of Islamic Empire for hundreds of years. It was only their straying from Islamic principles that hurt them. As for what it did for Pashtuns well I'd argue the reason why Pashtuns didn't benefit is because of Pashtun culture not letting Islam do its work and following Pashtun customs which are more based on ignorance than Islam. Pashtuns have yet to experience the true benefits of Islam simply because they won't allow it. It is not the fault of Islam if people don't follow its advice. If anything Nationalism is the wrong direction for Pashtuns, Pashtuns will only prosper when they become fully Islamic and abolish all aspects of Pashtun cultural practices, except for harmless ones like language, art , clothes and music etc. In fact it is not just Pashtuns that need Islam but the WHOLE world is required to have Islam as Islam is supposed to be a GLOBAL Ideology and not just for one group.

Nationalism and secularism are the biggest psychological diseases of humanity; people who endorse nationalism or secularism suffer from a mental illness and need treatment.

If Islam worked on Arabs then why not on Pashtuns? If the medicine is efficacious. it works every where.

What are Muslims so genetically different from Europeans or Americans that Secularism and nationalism will not work on Muslims but it is excellently working on others.

Afghanistan is a nation state, not part of a Muslim caliphate, thus the product of nationalism. Why caliphate disappeared from the earth and do you think in this modern era all 58 Muslim states will come under one rule where Saudis with accept an Iranian caliph or vice versa.

Arabs used Islam for their power. Except political power what else Islam has given to Arabs. Even it stripped Arabs from its cultural and literary glory. Poetry, music, dance, sculpture etc were made haram. Mecca before islam was culturally richer and poetically more advanced. Except few Mutazelite or heretic Muslim scientists we have only names of Mullahs, no where any globally recognized scholar on the list of Muslims.

And Persians had bigger and stronger empires before their conversion to Islam.

[کیش]

If Islam worked on Arabs then why not on Pashtuns? If the medicine is efficacious. it works every where.

What are Muslims so genetically different from Europeans or Americans that Secularism and nationalism will not work on Muslims but it is excellently working on others.

Afghanistan is a nation state, not part of a Muslim caliphate, thus the product of nationalism. Why caliphate disappeared from the earth and do you think in this modern era all 58 Muslim states will come under one rule where Saudis with accept an Iranian caliph or vice versa.

Arabs used Islam for their power. Except political power what else Islam has given to Arabs. Even it stripped Arabs from its cultural and literary glory. Poetry, music, dance, sculpture etc were made haram. Mecca before islam was culturally richer and poetically more advanced. Except few Mutazelite or heretic Muslim scientists we have only names of Mullahs, no where any globally recognized scholar on the list of Muslims.

And Persians had bigger and stronger empires before their conversion to Islam.

The Qu'ran when read and understood is the best literary device to be written down.

Islam brought forth calligraphy art. a unique and different artwork.

since when has dancing been considered art? it's ridiculous moving around like your intoxicated.

Islam also brought Nasheed's, another set of music.

Wasn't Rumi one of the best poets of all time? most of his poems were Islamic based.

Islam united the Arab tribes. before that they were separate and weak compared to the Byzantiums.

The reason why Pashtuns (and a lot of other ethnicities) have not strongly progressed is that most do not understand the Qu'ran. They all focus too much time on reading, and praying that they have not developed the understandings of the verses they recite. Translations don't do any justice. just like any literature pieces, there is no comparing to the original language.

since most Muslims do not understand the meaning of the Qu'ran, they mix culture and customs with it.

[RevolutionThroughReason]

If Islam worked on Arabs then why not on Pashtuns? If the medicine is efficacious. it works every where.

What are Muslims so genetically different from Europeans or Americans that Secularism and nationalism will not work on Muslims but it is excellently working on others.

Afghanistan is a nation state, not part of a Muslim caliphate, thus the product of nationalism. Why caliphate disappeared from the earth and do you think in this modern era all 58 Muslim states will come under one rule where Saudis with accept an Iranian caliph or vice versa.

Arabs used Islam for their power. Except political power what else Islam has given to Arabs. Even it stripped Arabs from its cultural and literary glory. Poetry, music, dance, sculpture etc were made haram. Mecca before islam was culturally richer and poetically more advanced. Except few Mutazelite or heretic Muslim scientists we have only names of Mullahs, no where any globally recognized scholar on the list of Muslims.

And Persians had bigger and stronger empires before their conversion to Islam.

Well Islam worked for Arabs as long as Arabs were applying Islam, the reason Islam didn't work for Pashtuns is because Pashtuns were too arrogant and wanted to apply their culture than apply Islam correctly. They applied Islam superficially but not in its depths.

I wouldn't say that Persians had bigger/stronger empires in fact one of the reasons Persians were so easily subdued by Alexander the Great was because of the weakness of their empire. And also How did Islam over take Persia? Muslims only fought Persians with a 5000 man army with inferior weapons, less man power and lacking knowledge of Persian terrain to the same degree. THis would all demonstrate Persians were a Paper Tiger, bigger bark than bite. However after Islam Persians were very organized, made very deep advancements more so than they did prior.


Secularism is a fundamentally European ideology its ultimate goal is to benefit White Non-Muslim Europeans. IT was never intended to be universally applied; it was just for the White Non-Muslims. Where as Islam is fundamentally for all of humanity.

Nation State concept is a European Ideology brought by European Imperialism; in fact Numerous evidence shows that the idea of Afghanistan being a Naton-State traces to British control of Afghanistan's politics under the rulership of Puppet Kings who betrayed their people and sold Pashtun lands to the British Raj. The Caliphate disappeared because Muslims ignored their responsibilities. and now they're suffering for it because we're currently subordinate to Non-Muslims. we have to change this circumstances.

Yes it is very possible to restore the Khilafah but what is needed is proper education. We have to inform the population about the Association of Nationalism with European Imperialism and how it was used to exploit and manipulate them and keep them weak. If they start seeing that connection then they will develop a dislike towards Nationalistic thinking and be more focused on Muslims as a whole. What we need to do is show the Nationalists are actually Agents of European Imperialists to destroy the values of Muslims and culturally brainwash them. This way the society will develop a new consciousness.

The claim that Arabs used Islam for power is a false one because NOT all Arabs are Muslim, if Islam was supposed to be for Arab power than ALL Arabs not just Muslims would have used it. Therefore the claim is incoherent. It was actually made up by Orientalists who wanted to indoctrinate Muslims who they colonized as a strategy to manipulate animosity for divide and rules tactics and also to divert Muslims from Islam. Also the claim that it stripped Arabs of Cultural GLory is untrue because the Qur'an is the central Cultural LIterary pieceto of Arabic, Modern Arabic language traces itself to the literary standard of the Qur'an and the Arabs of the time were astounded by its Literary Sophistication, thereby Islam actually laid the foundation for the cultural and literary glory. Before that Arabic was barely even known.

MOst of the Great Scholars/Scientists were actually devout MUslims; if you read the works of Ibn Haytham, Al Farabi, Al Biruni, Al Jahith, Al Khwarithmi, all actually preface their work they all make bestow honor on Islam and state Islam was source of inspiration for their work.. Heretics were actually a minority like Omar Khayyam. The overwhelming majority were Serious Muslims