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**Dreamer** · 07-20-2010, 06:36 PM

and this is what those kaffirs think of us muslims

All those Muslims who do not enter the fold of the Promised Messiah, whether or not they have heard of Messiah (Mirza Ghulam Qadiani) are considered Kafirs and are beyond the pale of Islam."
(Aeena-e-Sadaqat, P. 9/35, By Bashir-uddin Mahmud)

**Dreamer** · 07-20-2010, 06:37 PM

God has revealed to me that it is forbidden - strictly forbidden - that you should say prayers led by one who believes me to be a liar or is wavering in his allegiance to me. Instead it enjoined upon you that you should follow an Imam from amongst you."
(Arbaeen, Vol. 3, P. 28; "Tuhfa-e-Golarwiah", P. 27, Mirza Ghulam Qadiani)

**Dreamer** · 07-20-2010, 06:38 PM

But wait Im sure the urdu original states all this slightly more eloquently

**Admin Khan** · 07-20-2010, 07:03 PM

Originally posted by Dreamer View Post

said things were mentioned by his "prophet" those are indeed disgusting things for any muslim 2 hear or read

I am not defending anyones beliefs all I am kindly asking you is to discuss things more professionally without the personal attacks.

Thank you and I hope you are in great health.

**MeemWawMeemNoon** · 07-20-2010, 07:21 PM

Dera manana, wrora!

Just like Dreamer is not a Shia' but finds the need to defend them because he knows a lot about them, the same is true with respect to me.

I don't mind discussing anything, but everything has to be dealt with in a civilized way.

**eyeliner** · 07-20-2010, 07:42 PM

its interesting though, that ahmadiyya still has followers.

**Sheenka** · 07-20-2010, 07:52 PM

confused.com

**MeemWawMeemNoon** · 07-20-2010, 09:30 PM

Originally posted by eyeliner View Post

its interesting though, that ahmadiyya still has followers.

People started being interested in and learnt about Islam after 9/11.

**Dreamer** · 07-21-2010, 02:41 AM

I defend shia because they are in the fold of islam as for ahmedies they are not.... this can be seen by what their leader said (refer 2 earlier posts.... these are with references)
as for calling some1 a kaffir, kaffir is not a derogatory word rather a descriptive word of a non muslim.... much like a christian would call a non christian a heathen.... ahmedies =non muslim so u do the math... its not a matter about tolerence.... you can worship the moon for all I care but dont go around calling yourself muslim!
Deviency=
Drooze
Bahai
Ahemdi
Ishmalie
Alavi
Alwai
the list goes on... ahmedies are nothing new.... they are a continuation of a chain of devient heretitical sects which have taken their followers outside the banner of islam

**king-zazai** · 07-21-2010, 03:57 AM

Originally posted by Dreamer View Post

I defend shia because they are in the fold of islam as for ahmedies they are not.... this can be seen by what their leader said (refer 2 earlier posts.... these are with references)
as for calling some1 a kaffir, kaffir is not a derogatory word rather a descriptive word of a non muslim.... much like a christian would call a non christian a heathen.... ahmedies =non muslim so u do the math... its not a matter about tolerence.... you can worship the moon for all I care but dont go around calling yourself muslim!
Deviency=
Drooze
Bahai
Ahemdi
Ishmalie
Alavi
Alwai
the list goes on... ahmedies are nothing new.... they are a continuation of a chain of devient heretitical sects which have taken their followers outside the banner of islam

u defending saytanic sects means u agree in thier belifs which u r also making shirk u should watch out wrora....

**Feroza_Banu** · 07-21-2010, 02:45 PM

Originally posted by king-zazai View Post

u defending saytanic sects means u agree in thier belifs which u r also making shirk u should watch out wrora....

how is he comitting shirk? where does it say that SHias are outside the fold of Islam other than by wahabi scholars...

**Palwasha** · 07-21-2010, 03:47 PM

When Shia3's bow down to shrines and pray to people other than Allah, i.e. the Imams, Ali (RA) etc. then they are commiting shrik. The worst of them deny the Qur'an, which is an act of Kufr; then there are those who deny the Sunnah of the Prophet SAW, another act of kufr; and then those who curse the Sahaba's (may Allah be Pleased with them), you can guess what I'm gonna say next.. Not to mention the amount of innovations.. This is how they can be seen as out of the folds of Islam.

**Dreamer** · 07-21-2010, 04:33 PM

where does it say in shia texts ( you may use nahj al baglagha or al kafee ) though neither of them are 100% accepted as being true that shia must bow before graves.... Ive seen plenty of sunnis going 2 pirs.... and actually doing tawaaf around their zayrats.... ignorence of religion exists in shia and sunni
as for the cursing what is required is doing tabaraa from the enemies of ahle bayt.... Allah nows well who they are as does history testify 2 the fact of who they were

**Palwasha** · 07-21-2010, 06:48 PM

Originally posted by Dreamer View Post

where does it say in shia texts ( you may use nahj, al baglagha or al kafee ) though neither of them are 100% accepted as being true that shia must bow before graves.... Ive seen plenty of sunnis going 2 pirs.... and actually doing tawaaf around their zayrats.... ignorence of religion exists in shia and sunni

Just coz they go to pir's doesn't mean they're right either. Ignorance unfortunately exists everywhere.

Since you mentioned those two shia3 texts, I will quote from them. Not sure where it says bowing before graves, though they do tend to bow down to shrines. But since you asked, here are some other interesting quotes which struck my attention.

Allaah often lies and does mistakes.(usool-e-kaafi, page #328, yaqoob kulaini, vol1).

Shias say that the Imaams are the face of Allaah. (Usul- e-Kaafi -83.)

Attack On Tawheed: It is the belief of all the shias that the twelve imaams are a noor (illumination, light) from Allah’s noor. Their hands, feet, face and other parts of their body; and besides their own bodies, they are the creators and owners of the whole universe. They posses all the rights; are ‘aalimul ghaib’ (know the unseen); are hazir nazir (present and observing); have complete discretion on what should be halal or haram; jannah and jahannum are under their control. (for this reason every Shia will shout and call upon him “yaa Ali Madad” when in need and distress). [Kaafi, kitaabul Hujjah].

''Bad’ah'' ALLAH tells a lie. (Asool Kaafi, Vol. No.1, Page No. 148. A Shia doctrine.)

All Imams are equal in rank and status to Prophet Muhammad (s.a.w.s) (Asool Kaafi, Vol. No. 1, Page No. 270)

Sahabah (R.H) became infidel by denying the divine right (Wilayat) of Hazrat Ali. First three caliph and other Sahabas became infidel by denying the divine right of (Wilayat) of Hazrat Ali. (Asool Kaafi, Page No. 420)

No one possess complete knowledge of Holy Qur’an except Imams. (Asool Kaafi, Vol. No. 1, Page No. 228)

Knows his hour of death and his death is in his control. (Asool Kaafi, Vol. No. 1,Page No. 258

According to Shia’s nothing can remain hidden from the Imams, they have a complete knowledge of past, present and future. (Asool Kaafi, Vol. No. 1, Page No. 260)

AstahfrughAllah... There are too many shocking quotes of their texts, I could go on. This is the reason I concentrated on 'Kaafi'.

**hassanzaman** · 07-28-2010, 04:22 PM

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