Hanafi view on Music

[Badlun]

Yes sometimes Shamlawar happens to be too loose on using the word takfir. But in case of Badlun if you want to see his aqida you have to reads his threads ''osho''. You will find him the believer of osho and hinduism and in islam he picks what he likes like any other non Muslim. He does not like to take the name our prophet Muhammad pbuh him but he is the admirer of Osho more.

I read Aristotle and Plato and follow them in some areas, so does it make me Greek pagan? I follow Jesus Christ in some matters so does it make me Christian? I follow Buddha in some matters so does it make me Buddhist?

I follow Osho only in some spiritual matters not in religious matters. In religious matters I follow Prophet Muhammad, in cultural matters I follow Pashtunwali and in political matters I follow democracy.

And Osho was not Hindu by religion. He is more inspired by Buddhism than Hinduism. He was born in Jain family but he was not follower of any religion.

[Manzareh]

I read Aristotle and Plato and follow them in some areas, so does it make me Greek pagan? I follow Jesus Christ in some matters so does it make me Christian? I follow Buddha in some matters so does it make me Buddhist?

I follow Osho only in some spiritual matters not in religious matters. In religious matters I follow Prophet Muhammad, in cultural matters I follow Pashtunwali and in political matters I follow democracy.

And Osho was not Hindu by religion. He is more inspired by Buddhism than Hinduism. He was born in Jain family but he was not follower of any religion.

This post demonstrates your extreme level of confusion, your all over the place like a scrambled-egg

[Badlun]

This post demonstrates your extreme level of confusion, your all over the place like a scrambled-egg

This is called eclecticism not confusion. Can you tell me one source or one author where I can find all branches of knowledge as art, natural sciences, social sciences, philosophy, literature and also religion, spirituality, mysticism, parapsychology etc.

For religion I have Islam but for other aspects of life I have to search for different sources. A 1400 years old Islam cannot give me everything but has given me the unchangeable religious guidance of faith, worship and morality.

For music I have to depend on connoisseurs of music and my own taste not on Mullah to recommend one instrument as halal and the other as haram.

This is ridiculous asking a Mullah for a fine art like music. Mullah is for religion not for fine art.

[gadoonwal]

The wahabism is taking over hanafi islam in pashtunland.
They are paid by the arab shaikhs

[KGODB]

Music >>>> Islam

[Anar]

Who asked for your opinion bDOGk

[KGODB]

Who asked for your opinion bDOGk

no one asked me punk, no permission is needed

go back into the cave, neanderthal

[Khorosani]

no one asked me punk, no permission is needed

go back into the cave, neanderthal

You've exchanged the guidance of Islam for garbage and a disease. The Quran changes people in the millions through history until today. Music only gives you an intoxication.

As for Badlun stop being a fool. Abu Hanifa and his students believed that Islam was not only in the masjid but in the business transactions and in the political and government matters. That's why the sayings of Abu Hanifa and his ashab on the masaa'il of business and political issues outweighs his sayings in the matters of the ibaadaat of Islam. However in spite of that fact (just open mukhtasar quduri or hidayah to see that fact) you still hold that islam is "only in the masjid" and has no say in the matters of the dunya.

As for Music being haram there is pretty much an IJMA among the ulema that it is haram, the ijma is one of the evidences in the deen besides the Quran and sunnah. The only scholars you find having the opinion that music is halal is the THAHIRI imam ibn Hazm who isn't even maliki, hanafi, shafi or hanbali. You also have some contemporary scholars.

and you know what, lets put Abu Hanifa on a hold you have a major sahabi telling you music is haram (abdullah ibn masud in his tafsir of the ayah in luqman) and you reject it? Than you want to talk about Abu Hanifa (Rh)?! This is like ibn Abbas (RA) when he told his students "I tell you Allah and his messenger (saw) and you tell me Abu Bakr and Umar!"

[Anar]

no one asked me punk, no permission is needed

go back into the cave, neanderthal

Don't get excited mate......

[KGODB]

You've exchanged the guidance of Islam for garbage and a disease. The Quran changes people in the millions through history until today. Music only gives you an intoxication.

and youve exchanged the beauty of music for a series of fairy tales

see, i can do that too

:d

[Badlun]

You've exchanged the guidance of Islam for garbage and a disease. The Quran changes people in the millions through history until today. Music only gives you an intoxication.

As for Badlun stop being a fool. Abu Hanifa and his students believed that Islam was not only in the masjid but in the business transactions and in the political and government matters. That's why the sayings of Abu Hanifa and his ashab on the masaa'il of business and political issues outweighs his sayings in the matters of the ibaadaat of Islam. However in spite of that fact (just open mukhtasar quduri or hidayah to see that fact) you still hold that islam is "only in the masjid" and has no say in the matters of the dunya.

As for Music being haram there is pretty much an IJMA among the ulema that it is haram, the ijma is one of the evidences in the deen besides the Quran and sunnah. The only scholars you find having the opinion that music is halal is the THAHIRI imam ibn Hazm who isn't even maliki, hanafi, shafi or hanbali. You also have some contemporary scholars.

and you know what, lets put Abu Hanifa on a hold you have a major sahabi telling you music is haram (abdullah ibn masud in his tafsir of the ayah in luqman) and you reject it? Than you want to talk about Abu Hanifa (Rh)?! This is like ibn Abbas (RA) when he told his students "I tell you Allah and his messenger (saw) and you tell me Abu Bakr and Umar!"

All those jurisprudential stuff in Fiqi books are not religious in nature but dealing either with business ethics or non religious dealings otherwise such issues would be part of the Arkane Islam which are only acts of worship and beliefs.
What about the hadiths quoted above which allow music? What about the hanafi fatwas which allow some music and not other music.

Any sane person will recognise the importance of music which is such a profound creative art. For God sake do not make Islam such a dry thing where the food of soul is forbidden. Even Quran is musical with rhyme, rhythm and melody.

[BarakzaiAbdali]

All those jurisprudential stuff in Fiqi books are not religious in nature but dealing either with business ethics or non religious dealings otherwise such issues would be part of the Arkane Islam which are only acts of worship and beliefs.
What about the hadiths quoted above which allow music? What about the hanafi fatwas which allow some music and not other music.

Any sane person will recognise the importance of music which is such a profound creative art. For God sake do not make Islam such a dry thing where the food of soul is forbidden. Even Quran is musical with rhyme, rhythm and melody.

I have no opinion on this matter as it is a debate above my knowledge base/pay grade... and I think there are bigger issues in the world to deal with first.

That being said, I think it is important to recognize a few things:

What may be the sociological drive to limit music? Well, what I can say from what I have experienced, seen, and heard is that there is a musical culture alongside the art of music itself.

Investigational studies confirm that certain music influences (video art form predominantly) sexual mores for the worst, even in European society. Confounders could not explain the results:

"This study investigates whether exposure to music videos predicts adolescents' sexual attitudes when controlled for relevant characteristics of individuals and their social environment. Sexual attitudes are related to their music video use (i.e. exposure to music videos, peer group talk about music videos, and perceived realism of these videos), personal factors and the sexual norms they perceive in their social environment (i.e. sexual norms of their parents and friends). A survey among Dutch adolescents (age 13-18; N = 384) showed that time spent watching music videos, peer group discussions about music videos, and perceived realism of music videos are all positively related to the traditional attitudes that men dominate sexual relationships, and that women are sex objects. This relationship cannot be explained away with individual characteristics (i.e. gender, age, education), and the sexual norms that adolescents perceive in their social environment. So we conclude that it is very well possible that music videos play a role in the formation and reinforcement of traditional sexual attitudes."

http://eujournal.org/index.php/esj/article/view/1066

Here is another discussion/study that shows influences on women and the rate of rise/change in culture towards less savory musical influences:

This is from the journal Sexuality and Culture:

"The amount of music that 8- to 18-year-olds listen to has increased by 45 percent in recent years, rising dramatically with the popularity of MP3 players, such as iPods. Previous research has indicated that there is a strong link between exposure to sexual media (on screen and in music) and sexual activity. Teens tend to overestimate the sexual activity of their peers and one source of this misperception is the entertainment media.
In this study, the researchers analyzed the lyrics from the top 100 songs in the Billboard Hot 100 year-end most popular songs every decade from 1959 to 2009. They found that male and non-White artists were more likely to write songs with sexual lyrics in the past two decades and that there were more sexual references overall in 2009 than in 1959.
The authors point out that not all sexual references are equal, and degrading and sexualized music can have a deleterious effect on teens. For girls in particular, this can lead them to judge their personal worth on a sexual level only, leading to poor body image, depression, eating disorders, and substance abuse."


Also, has the medical community found any particular links regarding this issue beyond what sociologists have found??? Here is the response from a higher impact factor journal:

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases...0224132903.htm

American Journal of Preventive Medicine

"In an article published in the April 2009 issue of the American Journal of Preventive Medicine, researchers found that teenagers who preferred popular songs with degrading sexual references were more likely to engage in intercourse or in pre-coital activities.
Writing in the article, Brian A. Primack, MD, EdM, MS, Center for Research on Health Care at the University of Pittsburgh School of Medicine, states, "This study demonstrates that, among this sample of young adolescents, high exposure to lyrics describing degrading sex in popular music was independently associated with higher levels of sexual behavior. In fact, exposure to lyrics describing degrading sex was one of the strongest associations with sexual activity...These results provide further support for the need for additional research and educational intervention in this area."

The above article made waves and caught media attention:
http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/...xual-behavior/

There are also recent studies debunking the famous Mozart effect that people used to claim was a passive gain from listening to his pieces.

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Popular music and its commentary on culture.

I think a single quote from one of Rock&Roll's founding fathers, John Lennon says it best on his controversial comment "The Beatles are more popular than Jesus."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/More_popular_than_Jesus

He later clarified:

"I think I said that the Beatles have more influence on young people than Jesus Christ. Yes, I still think it. Kids are influenced more by us than Jesus. Christ, some ministers even stood up and agreed with it. It was another piece of truth that the fascist Christians picked on. I'm all for Christ, I'm very big on Christ. I've always fancied him. He was right. As he said in his book, 'you'll get knocked if you follow my ways.'"

And to a great extent he is correct that in the most recent era, Rock&Roll had a major impact on societal values.

So your typical response is going to be: all this shows is that we need balance and that is what is important.... that will be an assinine response since the proof is in the pudding that there is no balance - that is why it is called POPULAR music, yet the catch 22 is that the above demonstrates the deletrious affects of popular music.

Its also not Mullahs saying an intervention may be needed, its Dr. Brian Primack:

"...These results provide further support for the need for additional research and educational intervention in this area."

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This is what I find hilarious about the supposed secularist types that think they are educated and promote education but then cannot have an educated discussion... none of your responses in this category have any evidence basis or points.

Am I saying wholesale ban on Music is mandated by Islam? No, I am grown up enough to admit I do not know the answer to this question. But at least I will look at all the aspects of the argument, positive and negative and the weight of the behind possible decisions. That is, there may be a role in the least for some sort of control or censorship supported by science and to some degree possibly by religion.

[abassinafghan]

its always sooooo funny if i hear alll this wannabe losers , who want to be "perfect " talking about things ,posting this and that , without having any formal education . but besides of this .....


i dont want to know how many cassests and records shamalwar has got at his home , home many ahmad zahir ,or beltoon or ustad xy records he has got at home ...

now shawalmar goes to his daddy and tells him " ara music is harm switch it out !!! " what does ara do ?

HE BITCH SLAPS SHAMALWAR !!!!!!!

then he goes to his mother and tells " ade music is haram " , what does his mother do ?

SHE BITCH SLAPS SHAMALWAR !!!!


i guess he dont leave his home, because there is music everywhere , he must use some sort or ear protection , and in holland there is alot of sex in the news , in magazines,news papers , commerical posters ....

i assume if he leaves his home , he must use hearing protection against music , and 100% dark sunglasses to avoid to look at all the naked skin ...

how does he manage to go from point a to point b ???

and he uses the pc/laptop , the biggest machine of the devil , i dont want to know how much porn this little liar has got on his desktop .....and here he tries to compensate his guilt , by overdoing it , and proofing how perfect he is.

[Khorosani]

and youve exchanged the beauty of music for a series of fairy tales

see, i can do that too

:d

theres nothing beautiful about music, i used to make music and i don't find anything beautiful about music.

As for fairy tale comment, there is nothing fairy tale about the Quran. The Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) and the prophets of the Quran have good historical bases. Nevertheless, the Quran as a linguistic miracle is enough to prove it is from Allah.

As for you badlun, give me one hadith where Music is made permissible and give me one scholar before the time of ibn hazm that allowed music. Abdullah ibn Mubarak who was a hanafi and one of the greatest muhadiths in our history used to make music before he became the man we know him as today, when he repented he BROKE HIS GUITAR. That shows that he knew it was haram even though he used to make it before he became the man he was.

My example for the fiqh books is that they talk about the cutting of the hand, the hudood, and the fard of offensive and defensive jihad. Every introductory fiqh book also deals with ibadah.

and if your soul is not satisfied with dhikr, quran, hadith and halal poetry than there is something wrong with your heart and soul.

[Khorosani]

What if the Ummah don't choose Shariah? - Shaykh Al-Dido Al-Shanqitee - YouTube

this is for you badlun