Religious people are less intelligent than atheists, study finds

[RevolutionThroughReason]

Uh, OK, explain Director of the NIH, Francis Collins MD PHD

http://www.nih.gov/about/director/directorbio.htm

Here is his text:

http://www.amazon.com/The-Language-G.../dp/1416542744

His single example shows that this study, which I am combing through ignores confounders. It is not by any means a gold standard randomized control trial. The notion is to demonstrate a correlation between low intelligence and religion and Toramana instead is attempting to insinuate two way causality.

The reality is that social strata and a host of other factors influence where religion is most often practiced and how it is practiced.

It would be like noting that the sons of farmers in rural America are less likely to be Harvard Law graduates than the sons of doctors, lawyers and urban/suburban folks. Insinuating inherent potential or lack thereof in either the son of the farmer or the son of the urban/suburban person ignores a series of confounders.

This is a sound criticism; people ignore the influence of ideology associated with EDUCATIONAL pedagogy as an equally important factor to examine.

More over the fact that Religious institutions are sidelined in public education narrative impacts their tendency to be affiliated with the poor who are generally given lower quality public education.

This study is flawed but NOT for Manzareh's reasons.

[RevolutionThroughReason]

That's not what I said. Unless in your own mind you believe teachers are the Prophets of God (which they are not).

Learn to read better. Your a specialist in twisting statements around.

No I'm a specialist in examining the flawed and intrisinically contradictory nature of your argument.

Prophets were teachers who instruct and impart information
Teachers instruct and impart information.

Your argument bungles if you accept the idea we NEEDED people Like Prophets to impart information to us, because if all we needed is our own individual experiences then there's no point in having Prophets or obeying then. If there is a point in obeying them; then it opens up the question for the need for teachers.

People are not taught stuff because it fits Government guidelines; they're educated because the things they learn ACTUALLY works.

It's not some government conspiracy or whatever dumb excuse you have for lacking achievement and lacking knowledge; in fact if anything the educational system works inspite of the Government because they're some of the most poorly funded of State supported institutions

That's what separates the educated from the ignorant; does The Stuff you think/Say/learn/teach .....WORK i.e. produce results.

[RevolutionThroughReason]

The library is filled with every religious books written down, not to mention the copious amount of non-fiction. This all available for free, instead of buying your way to a degree with a massive amount of loan money with interest hanging in your back.

This is a lame excuse for lacking credentials; the reason in MOST higher level subjects "just learning it all on your own" doesn't work is because they don't give you practical and hands on experience; they also lack nuance which comes with interactive activities.

Yes you can learn basics on your own; but without experienced instruction; that's as far as you'll go.

[کیش]

Prophets were taught by God to show humans the right path. To proof they were god-sent that performed miracles like giving an illiterate the ability to speak prose. Given a Prophet the ability to preach as an infant. Parting the red sea, bringing a she-camel appear from nowhere etc. . .

A regular paid teacher does nothing but reread material you could learn without one.

The rest of your statement has nothing to do with I said. Like I said your a specialist in bringing random points to refute a statement, when in times you can't come up with a rebuttal.

[کیش]

This is a lame excuse for lacking credentials; the reason in MOST higher level subjects "just learning it all on your own" doesn't work is because they don't give you practical and hands on experience; they also lack nuance which comes with interactive activities.

Yes you can learn basics on your own; but without experienced instruction; that's as far as you'll go.

I'm not closed minded like some people on here. I agree that autodidacts lack the practical and hands on experience that paper-holders get. But that's from discrimination. If these activities were available for students who taught themselves the basics and can proof they're as educated as someone who paid tens of thousands of dollars, the self-taught individual should be given a chance. Don't you agree?

[کیش]

this has nothing to do with malala. to reach a conclusion after understanding something and to be dragged and dropped to the point of that understanding are two different things. there is nothing wrong with teaching your child about your religion but if a kid can't stand up on his own feet and you have it laying on a praying mat, you are afraid that unless you enforce those beliefs on them from that young age, they will grow up not being interested or wandering off. does that child know what a massacre is? has he seen one or is he aware of how one affects a society?? does he know what a society is?? does he know how a massacre is caused or how it can be prevented?? no. but he can cry about it in front of 1000s of people while everyone praises him for it. how does that contribute to the goodness of a society?? that well of goodness has to be built inside you. for that, you have to understand yourself and others around you well. you can't do that if you have never had the opportunity to learn the basics of life.
and you as well as lots of other people out there have this habit of talking alot about things and not having the slightest clue as to what they actually mean. you say degrees are useless and blah blah blah but then you also spend a good amount of your time complaining about how you find it difficult to find or keep a job or how people only care for those whose pockets are full. pick and freaking choose, okay?? if you don't want or care for a degree, acknowledge the fact that that decision places you on a certain position and scale in society. if you can't handle being in that position, go get the damn degree. don't just sit there and complain.
you don't need pens, pencils or teachers to be educated, you need an open mind. with the resources that we are surrounded with in the west, education happens around us. we just have to be willing to give new and different ideas a chance. don't just shun them.

I have worked as a pharmacist technician for close to two years, so there goes your attack on why I don't/can't get a job.

In those years, I have learned a lot about what it takes to be a retail pharmacist through hands on working. I do the same job as the Pharmacist but I can't dispense prescriptions (which is the easiest part of the job.all you do is copy what was written on the prescription by the doctor) because I don't have a Pharm D. Which cost over 100k. I deserve to get paid the same salary as a pharmacist. The only thing I need to do which would put the icing on the cake is to finish the basics of Pharmacology book I got from the Library. So I could confidentially answer any questions the patient may ask. I could answer some, but some more reading than all be straight.

The three pharmacists tell me daily that I am smart enough to work as a pharmacist, but I do not want to spend 100k+ and 6 years worth of extra material that aren't applied in real life settings.

So why I'm I discriminated by society? Is it because I learn materials without paying teachers?

I am a lot of things, but I am not trapped to one subject. I'm not a real writer, but I could tell stories with prose from years of reading fiction and going through everyday life. I'm not an artist, but if I sit down and practice drawing objects I have gotten better. W/o paying instructors.

Society needs an educational make over. And I believe my method is an innovative start. You also just agreed to my statement. Education is all around us and we need to give new ideas a chance.

BTW, I do agree on some of your earlier statements about the young boys lack of experience.

[DaZahroJaam.]

were the books that you learned from dropped at you from the sky or did someone work off his ass to put those out there? why should you reap off the benefits for free while everyone else has to pay for it?? society needs to get paid for the services they provide. if you want them to work with you, you have to work with them. why should you get the license for free and then practice on them?? if you don't like the rules, go live behind a rock with your own methods and see how you like it.

[کیش]

To be frank, the books I get from the library are free, and come from mines and yours taxes. So what's the problem of taken advantage of an asset that is laying around?

If I know as much about retail pharmacist as a person with a Pharm. D, but I get 1/10 of the salary isn't that an injustice being done to me? It's not like I don't know what I am doing when I explain to a patient about what medicines they are taken, how to take them, and what they do once entering your blood stream.

I record every book I read in a log with the name of the Author(s). So I don't forget who compiled the information for people like me.

I do buy new fiction books, mostly from writers who are new and self-publish themselves.

The aphorism: it's a rough life. Is false. It's people with similar attitudes that you're showing which closes the door for self-taught people like me. That stems from jealousy, hatred, or a mix of both. And those variables comes from the devil.

I only follow God's rule. Any other roadblocks are rulings the devil made by intoxicating the human soul.

[RevolutionThroughReason]

I'm not closed minded like some people on here. I agree that autodidacts lack the practical and hands on experience that paper-holders get. But that's from discrimination. If these activities were available for students who taught themselves the basics and can proof they're as educated as someone who paid tens of thousands of dollars, the self-taught individual should be given a chance. Don't you agree?

it's not from discrimination it's because you lack the skills. The "Paper Holders" have the credentials because they have developed and proven their skills. So No I don't agree, because there's no way you'd be able to do engineering or develop a 60,000 line code which calculates dividends by just knowing the basics.

[Shamlawar Khurasani]

People who dont want to receive credentials from proffesionals and still demand to be considered one of them are simply lazy. They want an easy way without the troubles.

[RevolutionThroughReason]

Prophets were taught by God to show humans the right path. To proof they were god-sent that performed miracles like giving an illiterate the ability to speak prose. Given a Prophet the ability to preach as an infant. Parting the red sea, bringing a she-camel appear from nowhere etc. . .

A regular paid teacher does nothing but reread material you could learn without one.

The rest of your statement has nothing to do with I said. Like I said your a specialist in bringing random points to refute a statement, when in times you can't come up with a rebuttal.

Illiterate humans speak prose all the time; That's what Rap music is LOL

So you're calling Eazy-E a Prophet now? Sheesh.

We don't have any evidence any of the events you described actually happened except WHAT WE WERE TAUGHT: so thus the teacher and The prophet are both in the same position; INSTRUCTION

The regular teacher has a SKILLSET; he teaches those SKILLS. Same with Prophets they have certain skills; we're taught THOSE SKILLS from people who learned those Skills from the Prophet.

Your argument lacks consistency sir.

[Badlun]

@kash
We may differentiate formal, informal and nonformal education.

Formal education we have to get from educational institutrions with a formal environment of teacher-student-class relationship with learning and teaching materials. Teachers are facilitators while students are participants. Reading books is only way of education but you have many others learning methods in a formal educational institution.

Yes one can get informal education from the experiences of life and non formal education from special environments, demonstrations, campaigns, TV, radio, movies,libraries , talks, shows etc.

[HalloIsBack]

Because they do not have a guilty conscience.

wrong again! yes they do!
if children do something wrong you can demand for an answer from them and you will see their reaction. they will start to cry and say sorry cuz they knew it was wrong what they did. just try it with your niece!
another thing if you ask a child who said to do it they will say mum or dad cuz children think their parents are always right what is not true

[HalloIsBack]

You want to talk about brainwashing, I'll tell you what brainwashing is; its when a girl brought up in a Islamic household that moves to Canada then subsequently brainwashed that a baby which is brought up in an Islamic manner is inevitably going to be taught and be willing to blow up city's, this is real brainwashing and your a weak minded individual that soaks up what is fed through mainstream propaganda. As a Muslim I'm proud to see that picture, I think it's cute..brainwashed individuals see a 1 year old terrorist. Shame on you and shame on your pathetic upbringing which has only taught you how to be a close minded naive bigot.

about this we have already talked about!

just a refresher: pride is a feature of shaytan!

[Manzareh]

about this we have already talked about!

just a refresher: pride is a feature of shaytan!

Are trying to say as a Muslim I cannot be proud of anything? Not even something Islamic, are you stupid or something?