girl brides in yemen and saudi arabia.

[faye]

Girl brides in Yemen: the fight for the right to say no | International Development Journalism competition | guardian.co.uk

[Dreamer]

Very disturbing though unfortunately perfectly allowed by Islamic Law... that's not to say that its right though

[Manzareh]

Very disturbing though unfortunately perfectly allowed by Islamic Law... that's not to say that its right though

"Child marriage is happening across the Arab countries, but it is more widespread in Yemen, based on the cultural tribal traditions"

" the cleaner said that she was forced to get married at the age of 12, which caused her medical complication"

Islam isnt based on cultural or tribal traditions, and a force marriage is not even considered a marriage. Your wrong that it is perfectly allowed by Islamic law, do some research.

[Dreamer]

Islam isnt based on cultural or tribal traditions, and a force marriage is not even considered a marriage. Your wrong that it is perfectly allowed by Islamic law, do some research.

I beg to differ.... I shall now quote from the Quran... In surah Talaq it talks about the waiting periods or Iddah for women before remarriage... It lists the various types of waiting periods
I reproduce it here but feel free to look it up its quran 65:4
"And those who no longer expect menstruation among your women - if you doubt, then their period is three months, and [also for] those who have not menstruated. And for those who are pregnant, their term is until they give birth. And whoever fears Allah - He will make for him of his matter ease." Please see the Bold underlined part of the text... this refers to women/girls who have not even had menses... only a pre-pubertal girl will not have had any... i.e a girl before puberty thereby showing girls even before puberty may be married though I believe that the different madhabs are not in agreement about sexual relations with her "husband"

There is also the example of the Prophet in marrying a 6 year old girl and consummating it when she was 9...

[Dreamer]

Oh and before we go on about how puberty implies ready for marriage lets remember that in the hadith where Aisha was "ready" for marriage she clearly had no clue what was going on and that she was playing with her dolls like any normal child
"A'isha (Allah be pleased with her) reported: Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) married me when I was six years old, and I was admitted to his house at the age of nine. She further said: We went to Medina and I had an attack of fever for a month, and my hair had come down to the earlobes. Umm Ruman (my mother) came to me and I was at that time on a swing along with my playmates. She called me loudly and I went to her and I did not know what she had wanted of me. She took hold of my hand and took me to the door, and I was saying: Ha, ha (as if I was gasping), until the agitation of my heart was over. She took me to a house, where had gathered the women of the Ansar. They all blessed me and wished me good luck and said: May you have share in good. She (my mother) entrusted me to them. They washed my head and embellished me and nothing frightened me. Allah's Messenger (, may peace be upon him) came there in the morning, and I was entrusted to him." Book 8 hadith 3309, sahih muslim....

"Narrated Aisha: The Prophet engaged me when I was a girl of six (years). We went to Medina and stayed at the home of Bani-al-Harith bin Khazraj. Then I got ill and my hair fell down. Later on my hair grew (again) and my mother, Um Ruman, came to me while I was playing in a swing with some of my girl friends. She called me, and I went to her, not knowing what she wanted to do to me. She caught me by the hand and made me stand at the door of the house. I was breathless then, and when my breathing became Allright, she took some water and rubbed my face and head with it. Then she took me into the house. There in the house I saw some Ansari women who said, "Best wishes and Allah's Blessing and a good luck." Then she entrusted me to them and they prepared me (for the marriage). Unexpectedly Allah's Apostle came to me in the forenoon and my mother handed me over to him, and at that time I was a girl of nine years of age." Bukhari volume 5 , book 58, hadith 234
also please be aware that while the girl is mensturating her body is not necessarily ready for coitus ... not only may she suffer from internal rupture or bleeding but get HPV infection etc... her transformation zone in the cervix matures when she is 18... this is why we give HPV vaccine to girls in the UK at 12/13 years of age... it lasts them till they are 18 and so any sex before that age will not put them at risk

[Manzareh]

First of all, I myself have been studying Quranic Arabic for almost 2 years, im not yet qualified to take a verse out of the Quran & define it from my own logic, the reason for this is because of the diversity of the language, you are attempting to translate the Quran into English, however, translations do not exist only transliterations do, theres a big difference. Also, the context in it is from 1400 years ago. The point is its not as simple as any Tom Dik and Harry googling a few quotes from Islamopheobic websites and posting them as evidence for their absurd claims.

Anyway, despite the so called Quranic evidence you pointed out, the main aspect of what you beg to differ is about Islam allowing a forced marriage and how it also supports traditional customs, show me your evidence for this, believe me i have enough evidence to prove the contrary from which i could flood this whole thread with.

[Dreamer]

First of all, I myself have been studying Quranic Arabic for almost 2 years, im not yet qualified to take a verse out of the Quran & define it from my own logic, the reason for this is because of the diversity of the language, you are attempting to translate the Quran into English, however, translations do not exist only transliterations do, theres a big difference. Also, the context in it is from 1400 years ago. The point is its not as simple as any Tom Dik and Harry googling a few quotes from Islamopheobic websites and posting them as evidence for their absurd claims.

Anyway, despite the so called Quranic evidence you pointed out, the main aspect of what you beg to differ is about Islam allowing a forced marriage and how it also supports traditional customs, show me your evidence for this, believe me i have enough evidence to prove the contrary from which i could flood this whole thread with.

Ok fair enough read it in its own language that verse and come back and talk... You forget that the Quran was addressed to a simple ppl who before islam ate lizards not to a group of theologians... It's language and message was clear... That u now don't agree with what's being said because it goes against your modern sensibilities is your concern ... It's a shame u have to run behind the we can't interpret it or the language is so complex excuse ... Now as for Hadith is Aisha didn't know what was going on how can she give consent to her marriage??? Also her age is clearly stated ... Please explain

[Dreamer]

Don't forget that the Quran is for all times as it itself reasserts... Out goes your "context" argument

[Dreamer]

The Quran is very clear in its message .... It allows "child marriage" now run and hide behind we can't interpret it or the context is different but all four Sunni imams believed in child marriage as does the shia jaafri school ... They no doubt based it on this verse not to mention other things

[Manzareh]

Yes, this is the whole reason why we have scholars, if it was so simple to understand there wouldn’t be people that dedicate their whole lives to understanding the Quran, surely the words of God are going to have a deeper meaning and cannot be defined by any nobody in few sentences. My context argument cannot go out as any logical mind will tell you it is not feasible to cherry pick two lines from the Quran and have a conclusion as to what it means, even your post was longer than the actual quote you posted.

If enter a classroom refusing to learn from the teacher that knows about his/her own subject, i will then be stuck in my arrogant ways and not learn anything, The only way to understand Islam is to learn from Muslims, your obviously learning Islam from non-Muslims, which is why your information is biased. If you know anything about Islam, Muslims never run from a debate, we are ready to answer any question from Christians, Jews, Atheists you name it. You’ve got us confused with some other religion.

As for the Aisha topic, that has been debated over and over again, not only here but all over the internet, im satisfied with the outcome of the debate of Aisha (may peace be upon her) that we have had on PF as it ended with the likes of people as yourself being proven wrong, use the search bar on the top tab i'm sure it will come up.

[Al Hanif]

Brother Manzareh, don't listen to this demonic person who promotes fornicators marrying pure muslims, as well as lying as a means for it.

Marry... I say go for it though you are right when it comes to nikkah technically she won't b allowed to marry a non muslim but you can a) convert for the sake of nikkah ( you don't have to believe in it or practise.... Think of it as a means to an end) or you can just do a civil service ... Personally I believe if two ppl like/love each other then go go it

As you pointed it out, his arguments are well known and come from satanic islamophobic websites who want to portray Islam as a religion that allows peadophilia.

I would like to comment this quote which is about primary amenorrhea (absence of menstruation for a woman who is 16 years of age or older)

those who have not menstruated

He and other disbelievers claim that this verse is about sex with prepubescent women.

But they are obviously wrong because babies have not menstruated either.

If their interpretation was right, then it would mean that a baby who was born a few minutes ago can have sex too.

These people are unable to see that this verse is clearly about primary amenorrhea because Allah SWT has blinded them because of their own sins.



God is not ashamed to make an example of a mosquito or of an even smaller thing. As for those who believe, they know it is the truth from their Lord. But as for those who disbelieve, they say, “What does God mean by this example?” He misguides many by it and guides many by it. But He only misguides the deviators. (Holy Qur’an, 2:26)


As for what the Hadiths say and what Sunni imams say, they are Men's words, not God's words, thus have no authority value in a debate.

[Dreamer]

Yes, this is the whole reason why we have scholars, if it was so simple to understand there wouldn’t be people that dedicate their whole lives to understanding the Quran, surely the words of God are going to have a deeper meaning and cannot be defined by any nobody in few sentences. My context argument cannot go out as any logical mind will tell you it is not feasible to cherry pick two lines from the Quran and have a conclusion as to what it means, even your post was longer than the actual quote you posted.

If enter a classroom refusing to learn from the teacher that knows about his/her own subject, i will then be stuck in my arrogant ways and not learn anything, The only way to understand Islam is to learn from Muslims, your obviously learning Islam from non-Muslims, which is why your information is biased. If you know anything about Islam, Muslims never run from a debate, we are ready to answer any question from Christians, Jews, Atheists you name it. You’ve got us confused with some other religion.

As for the Aisha topic, that has been debated over and over again, not only here but all over the internet, im satisfied with the outcome of the debate of Aisha (may peace be upon her) that we have had on PF as it ended with the likes of people as yourself being proven wrong, use the search bar on the top tab i'm sure it will come up.

The Hadith is very clear... Why don't you accept it??? I'm more interested in her "consenting" rather than her age since the Quran allows child marriages... If she herself didn't know what was going on how could she consent? Also those scholars aka the madhab imams agreed on the permissability of child marriages ... Again the Quran was in a clear language to a simple ppl not theologians

[Dreamer]

Brother Manzareh, don't listen to this demonic person who promotes fornicators marrying pure muslims, as well as lying as a means for it.



As you pointed it out, his arguments are well known and come from satanic islamophobic websites who want to portray Islam as a religion that allows peadophilia.

I would like to comment this quote which is about primary amenorrhea (absence of menstruation for a woman who is 16 years of age or older)



He and other disbelievers claim that this verse is about sex with prepubescent women.

But they are obviously wrong because babies have not menstruated either.

If their interpretation was right, then it would mean that a baby who was born a few minutes ago can have sex too.

These people are unable to see that this verse is clearly about primary amenorrhea because Allah SWT has blinded them because of their own sins.



God is not ashamed to make an example of a mosquito or of an even smaller thing. As for those who believe, they know it is the truth from their Lord. But as for those who disbelieve, they say, “What does God mean by this example?” He misguides many by it and guides many by it. But He only misguides the deviators. (Holy Qur’an, 2:26)


As for what the Hadiths say and what Sunni imams say, they are Men's words, not God's words, thus have no authority value in a debate.

You are the one who believes in a book that states it's ok for child marriages friend ... I'm only saying what the Quran says ... The Quran is also ok with pre-marital sex please see sex with slaves or rather rape of slaves so do t question my morality

[Dreamer]

Hey maybe that's what the scholars are for... When is it ok not to marry a kid lmao since 65:4 doesn't exactly place an age imbargo

[Dreamer]

So what does 65:4 mean?