Circumcision: Ban

[asad71]

any medical papers that support this?

* Only last month a dozen Ugandan legislators had themselves circumcised at a function to drive this point home.

any scientific data to support this?

* I am from SA. You can take my word for it. In fact throughout South and East Asia non-Muslim women have found Muslim men more desirable.




prove it by demonstrating scientific data/research which corroborates these
* Pork is bad for health. Alcohol or any intoxication is harmful to self and society. Ablution is a compulsory cleaning up. Salat is also a form of physical exercise. Meditation is a part of salat. Fasting is a training for bad days or war. It is good for health.

Similarly we can explore and discover the justification why any custom has been prescribed.

[RevolutionThroughReason]

Similarly we can explore and discover the justification why any custom has been prescribed.

Do you understand what it means to produce scientiific data ....it means research

not a bunch of statements you more or less already said.

[IamDZJ]

it's not the end of the world. do none of these muslims and jews plan on ever stepping outside the country for a holiday or otherwise?? take your child and have the procedure be done with.

[Hakim Khan Urgonai]

My first son was circumcised in hamburg. The German doctor tried to persuade me that it was not necessary and aesthetically not pleasing. Rightfully I had my way and my boy was circumcised.

Now, for living in the west, I went to Europe and decided it was not for me. I remained there for a decade and finally chose to return; to live and raise my family in a Muslim country.

I know if I was living in Germany or uk I would have many privileges not available to me in UAE or many other Muslim countries, like a unemployment benefit, free medical care, state pension, free education, especially in Germany where it is free all the way to PhD.

Now I live between my home in Afghanistan and work in Dubai. I cannot reconcile the hypocrisy of living in the west, labeling the westerners and being labelled by the westerners, so I have made a hard decision of living here. Thankfully no one will try to ban or restrict my Islamic rights here. I lived there, and I chose how much I can accept or tolerate for the sweetness of their rights and benefits.

This circumcision restriction, like the veil ban will simmer away, but their islamophobia will be persist.

I will also follow your example once I have enough money.

Since no country is actually "Muslim" other than in name; containing Muslims in the population or government, I want to live in any cheap non-European nation where there is plenty of weeds to go around. Ideally in Asia.

I would never live in the Persian Gulf, but I would perhaps consider immigrating to Turkey, India, Nepal, Thailand, Bangladesh or even as far away as Mexico.

Afghanistan or Pakistan (if its still there) is where I will end up, regardless.

Afghanistan is khawra and Pakistan can provide a luxury existence where your every dream can come true, provided you can pay.

I will return to Pakistan permanently, as soon as I have funds.
Pakistan is where a comfortable life and great profits can be made. I am most used to it.

[Hakim Khan Urgonai]

it's not the end of the world. do none of these muslims and jews plan on ever stepping outside the country for a holiday or otherwise?? take your child and have the procedure be done with.

Not everyone can afford to travel around the world at their leisure, like you.

Many poor people (Brown/Black people; Muslims, immigrants. etc.) are stuck in their country of residence.

[Hakim Khan Urgonai]

Have fun dealing with Smegma, O German Muslims and Jews

I know someone else who would like that.

[Hakim Khan Urgonai]

fortress europe? how many muslim countries can non muslims go into and have as much freedom of religion, education and lifestyle, as muslims have in the european countries that have chosen to move to?
i don't think there is even a church in saudi. maybe 1.

Yes, they want to block us out of Europe.

Us; many of whom have slaved for them, while the rest have rebelled.

Now they want to drive their workforce out after bringing them in, and in some cases, against their will (See indentured labourers of mainly of Indian and Afghan in places like the Carribbean and Latin America.)

In the '60s the British encouraged many Browns/Asians and Blacks/Africans to immigrate and now they want us out.

First they invaded our lands partly under the giuse of bringing Christianity to uncivilized foriegn "heathens", but just a few centuries later how many of them are Christians or endorse religion?

This particular freedom is merely mythical and even then, it is a mindstate. Properly know as the Stockholm syndrome. Aptly named.

Foreign residents in Saudi Arabia have churches and such in their compounds. They are pretty much free to do what they want in said compounds; immune to the local laws.
They drink, dance, party and whatever else their minds can think of, all while living in the "Moslem's Paradise". I have been to Jeddah.

One Romanian bitch who ruined my family and is now there herself, once had a sister in the region. She did well for herself, coming from rural Transylvania (Okay enough place, if you like Eastern Europe) and marrying an American. During an anecdote, she referred to Bahrain as a "little island where they drink and dance."

So you can at once see that these people still have the Colonial mentality.

[Tor Gul]

Similarly we can explore and discover the justification why any custom has been prescribed.

save this link it is produced by the American Center for Disease Control. it is a summary of scientific research but references 42 different peer reviewed papers & the associated data. without exception it proves circumcision has health BENEFITS especially associated with reduced disease transmission.

http://www.cdc.gov/hiv/resources/fac...rcumcision.htm

[Friend]

when will you have this courage?

Ahan good question but I am not living with family. I am alone here and don't intend to establish family here. I will marry in my village inshallah with the help of my Allah.
The reason for this is that the upbringing of children according to the Islamic way of life is a very hard task. So rather than focusing on this issue all the time of my life, why not get rid of this huge problem and marry back home and focus on other matters of life. One can't maintain balance in both monetary issues and personal life. You have to chose one. Back home you can carry both. So why not carry both. Environment plays a vital role in making one's character and personality

[torkham]

Yes, they want to block us out of Europe.

Us; many of whom have slaved for them, while the rest have rebelled.

Now they want to drive their workforce out after bringing them in, and in some cases, against their will (See indentured labourers of mainly of Indian and Afghan in places like the Carribbean and Latin America.)

In the '60s the British encouraged many Browns/Asians and Blacks/Africans to immigrate and now they want us out.

First they invaded our lands partly under the giuse of bringing Christianity to uncivilized foriegn "heathens", but just a few centuries later how many of them are Christians or endorse religion?

This particular freedom is merely mythical and even then, it is a mindstate. Properly know as the Stockholm syndrome. Aptly named.

Foreign residents in Saudi Arabia have churches and such in their compounds. They are pretty much free to do what they want in said compounds; immune to the local laws.
They drink, dance, party and whatever else their minds can think of, all while living in the "Moslem's Paradise". I have been to Jeddah.

One Romanian bitch who ruined my family and is now there herself, once had a sister in the region. She did well for herself, coming from rural Transylvania (Okay enough place, if you like Eastern Europe) and marrying an American. During an anecdote, she referred to Bahrain as a "little island where they drink and dance."

So you can at once see that these people still have the Colonial mentality.

Much truth spoken here.
Started with slavery, not just by whites,
Then with the great deception and theft during colonial times,
Then came the age of European innocence, and the natives were invited to the 'first' world, again to be deceived

Then evolved natural migrations due to the usual constraints of global society
Now the instinctive tribalism of humans is biting, and they bark like, 'they are stealing our jobs, go back to where you came from, diluting the blond gene pool, etc'

For colonialism - the uninformed must read biography of cecil Rhodes,

As for what goes on in Saudia, I can vouch from personal experience of living and working with western aerospace company there, what westerners get away with in KSA is unbelievable, with alcohol, clubs, dancing girls all in compounds, I saw a life led by Brits and yanks like the debauchery of the Prohibition Era, because when you juxtapose the restrictions and 'nudge, nudge, wink, wink' policy of Saudi police allowing alcohol and other non-Islamic activities, the westerners enjoyed the euphoria and thrill of the atmosphere, hence I likened it to Prohibition Era. Those who know it, live there and enjoy it, those who are blinkered, lambast away with their ignorant views.

If you have lived in KSA or you parents have, then ask them of Aramco compound, half moon bay beach in dhahran/alkhobar area of the late 60s to mid 70s, or of more recent, the private beach in Jeddah accessible to western passport holders, Or the Riyadh third herd hash house harrier parties, or what went on in the roudha compound which had a table top dancing members only club in a converted villa, in the roudha district of Riyadh, or the wild parties that went on in Izdihar compounds where many Brits lived, list goes on. . . .

I saw many of these with my own eyes, including the girls dancing on tables!!!

I was in KSA for about 10 years in the seventies, and as an adult in Riyadh for about 5 years.

[Hakim Khan Urgonai]

Much truth spoken here.
Started with slavery, not just by whites,
Then with the great deception and theft during colonial times,
Then came the age of European innocence, and the natives were invited to the 'first' world, again to be deceived

Then evolved natural migrations due to the usual constraints of global society
Now the instinctive tribalism of humans is biting, and they bark like, 'they are stealing our jobs, go back to where you came from, diluting the blond gene pool, etc'

For colonialism - the uninformed must read biography of cecil Rhodes,

As for what goes on in Saudia, I can vouch from personal experience of living and working with western aerospace company there, what westerners get away with in KSA is unbelievable, with alcohol, clubs, dancing girls all in compounds, I saw a life led by Brits and yanks like the debauchery of the Prohibition Era, because when you juxtapose the restrictions and 'nudge, nudge, wink, wink' policy of Saudi police allowing alcohol and other non-Islamic activities, the westerners enjoyed the euphoria and thrill of the atmosphere, hence I likened it to Prohibition Era. Those who know it, live there and enjoy it, those who are blinkered, lambast away with their ignorant views.

If you have lived in KSA or you parents have, then ask them of Aramco compound, half moon bay beach in dhahran/alkhobar area of the late 60s to mid 70s, or of more recent, the private beach in Jeddah accessible to western passport holders, Or the Riyadh third herd hash house harrier parties, or what went on in the roudha compound which had a table top dancing members only club in a converted villa, in the roudha district of Riyadh, or the wild parties that went on in Izdihar compounds where many Brits lived, list goes on. . . .

I saw many of these with my own eyes, including the girls dancing on tables!!!

I was in KSA for about 10 years in the seventies, and as an adult in Riyadh for about 5 years.

I heard somehwere that citizens of Prague want it to be a "100% Pure White" city.

My parents lived in Jeddah for many years in the 80's, they saw all of the stuff you said.

[Hakim Khan Urgonai]

It appers that there is a real crusade or campaign against circumcision in the Western world.

Here I found an article dealing about a possible ban of cricumcision in California.

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/06/05/us...cumcision.html

Its mainly a European thing.

Most Amercian males are circumcised and many Americans prefer it.

[Hakim Khan Urgonai]

What do you guys think of the female circumcision practised in Somalia and such?

I think its unnecessary.

[RevolutionThroughReason]

save this link it is produced by the American Center for Disease Control. it is a summary of scientific research but references 42 different peer reviewed papers & the associated data. without exception it proves circumcision has health BENEFITS especially associated with reduced disease transmission.

http://www.cdc.gov/hiv/resources/fac...rcumcision.htm

that is what I was looking for; not merely some Dorky Bangladeshi guy trotting his head back and forth.

[Hakim Khan Urgonai]

Money doesn't grow in trees in my backyard. I am able to travel to places because I work for it. Poor or rich, i dont know of anyone else working for 16 hours in a day at my age. But that is not the point... We are talking about Muslims and Jews in Germany and I believe if they spend their money wisely, they are pretty much capable of traveling out of the country at least once in every five years.

How do you find the time to work?

You are always here.