What the rise of Salafi violence in Tunisia is telling us

[BarakzaiAbdali]

Khostai, Maseed, Toramana, ...all of these people were once Muslims and they're from an afghan Pashtun background, Pashtuns were once known for being more devoted Muslims than even Hijazi Arabs!

If we see Pashtuns leaving Islam, that means extremists Misrepresenting Islam is what is driving people away

To be fair, we have not much info on the background of these people. If you psychologically profile them we would have to ask:

1) Which class do they derive historically? Rural versus Urban?
2) What are the opinions of their parental figures since sociological discussions of political philosophy shows that its a meme that is often "inherited." For all we know, Maseed's father could have had Leninesque leanings and Toramana's family might be embedded in the ANP heirarchy which traditionally backed Russia in the conflict.

For instance in the Arab world, the rise of a secularist agenda under Gamal and these other figures didnt occur because of Arabian Taliban - nor did Al Saud slaughter the Ikhwan that propelled him into power because they were Talibanesque and he was responding... Rather these were innoculations of a foreign sort as well.

[RevolutionThroughReason]

To be fair, we have not much info on the background of these people. If you psychologically profile them we would have to ask:

1) Which class do they derive historically? Rural versus Urban?
2) What are the opinions of their parental figures since sociological discussions of political philosophy shows that its a meme that is often "inherited." For all we know, Maseed's father could have had Leninesque leanings and Toramana's family might be embedded in the ANP heirarchy which traditionally backed Russia in the conflict.

For instance in the Arab world, the rise of a secularist agenda under Gamal and these other figures didnt occur because of Arabian Taliban - nor did Al Saud slaughter the Ikhwan that propelled him into power because they were Talibanesque and he was responding... Rather these were innoculations of a foreign sort as well.

I don't know much about Toramana , but I know Maseed was actually Pro Islam

Khostai did say he comes from a communist background, but he comes from Khost which is known for being a very Islamic part of Afghanistan. He isn't a "Westernized" Kabuli in other words.



It's true the arabs are turning towards Islam because the Secularists scared them away from secularism; but it is similarly true that people in many other Muslim countries are being more secularized due what these extremists do

As for Al-Saud, I don't think the Ikhwan helped them get into power, in fact Ikhwan are banned because they have much more liberal views on Islam than the Al-Sauds

[BarakzaiAbdali]

I don't know much about Toramana , but I know Maseed was actually Pro Islam

Khostai did say he comes from a communist background, but he comes from Khost which is known for being a very Islamic part of Afghanistan. He isn't a "Westernized" Kabuli in other words.



It's true the arabs are turning towards Islam because the Secularists scared them away from secularism; but it is similarly true that people in many other Muslim countries are being more secularized due what these extremists do

As for Al-Saud, I don't think the Ikhwan helped them get into power, in fact Ikhwan are banned because they have much more liberal views on Islam than the Al-Sauds

I thought the history of the Ikhwan bedouins was that they were initially supportive of helping the first monarch of the modenr era establish lawfullness in the peninsula. However, he started to invite in foreign super powers to harvest oil and the scholars spoke against this.. ikhwan sided with them and warned the Saudi King. He then armed a certain contingent of his peoiple with foreign arms and massacred the bedouins and betrayed them.

[RevolutionThroughReason]

I thought the history of the Ikhwan bedouins was that they were initially supportive of helping the first monarch of the modenr era establish lawfullness in the peninsula. However, he started to invite in foreign super powers to harvest oil and the scholars spoke against this.. ikhwan sided with them and warned the Saudi King. He then armed a certain contingent of his peoiple with foreign arms and massacred the bedouins and betrayed them.

nevermind I thought you were referring to the Ikhwan Al Muslimeen. That's a different Ikhwan.

But regardless my point still stands that the way the Islamic Laws are administered in Saudi Arabia is pushing people to resent Islam.

[BarakzaiAbdali]

nevermind I thought you were referring to the Ikhwan Al Muslimeen. That's a different Ikhwan.

But regardless my point still stands that the way the Islamic Laws are administered in Saudi Arabia is pushing people to resent Islam.

Whats your view of Shah Faisal?

[Khostai]

You are all wrong. My family is not communist and never was. They are strictly religious peopel actualy. I only said that I myself like the idea of communism, but my family sees nothing in it. But that still doesn't mean that I am communist, becuase I also like some aspects of Budhism, but that also don't make me a Budhist...YOu know what I mean...
I also had strong faith few years ago, the big change didn't came becuase of babrbarism of Taliban, even when my faith was strong I didn't counted them as true muslims and please don't aks way, the evidence is in your face you just have to open your eyes. The big change came when I read the translation of the Quran and searched information about Mohhamad online. Islam self made me to distance me from it, not other group or my family. My family are still strictly Islamic they pray 5 times a day and since I can remember they never skiped Ramadan, and now my father want to go to mekka the next summer.
Most peopel in the muslim world are folowing Islam blindly, especialy Afghans, they don't understand it. But that's not a wonder when you realise almost 70% of the population can't read or write, once the literacy will rise and the peopel will do there own research on Islam you will see that the power Islam in Afghanistan will decline. That's actually also the reason way most of the educated elite in any country is never strictly religious. Even in Afghanistan you can see that in past and even now.

[Friend]

Islam is the only true way to be followed and the greatest people of every time has been following it from Adam AS to Muhammad pbuh.
If we want to become the closest to God and righteous people we have to do what Islam tells us to do.

[BarakzaiAbdali]

So you think what happend in europe and the rest of the world will happen in muslim world. The chances are big. If you look at Afghan history from Amanullah till precent you see each time secular and religious clashes. At this time Islamist have the power, but that is declining and eventualy secular and atheist will get to control the muslim world, not becuase they will supress the muslim peopel what wnanebe talibs think, but becuase the majority will run to them and choose there side.

And the bigest example is Iran, each year there atheist and secularists vieuws are becoming popular and peopel want change....

Once again brother; read, read, read, and read.

Especially with respect to Iran.

More than anything Iran proves contrary to what you are saying. Iran had the Shah enforced upon them in the 1950s when an covert joint operation called Operation Ajax was enacted. That single starting point was really what led to much of the current woes in that part of the world as it would eventually even spawn the confrontations between Iraq and the US and subsequently the US bases in Saudi.

The Iranians had elected a secular democratic Mossadegh and then Operation Ajax installed the Shah of Iran who brutalized the people. When he was overthrown the revolution, like most rebellions, was radical and hot. It eventually cooled down and the iranians were electing Khatami. When needeling was done they started to shift to Ahmedinjaad.

The Iranians also face a major rural urban divide.

The city Iranians in Tehran are liberal and goth and rappers and artists etc etc and they supported the Greens.

However, the west inflated the supposed support and admitted this here in the Post where they say that Ahmedinjaad still had a CLEAR majority:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn...061401757.html

"The election results in Iran may reflect the will of the Iranian people. Many experts are claiming that the margin of victory of incumbent President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad was the result of fraud or manipulation, but our nationwide public opinion survey of Iranians three weeks before the vote showed Ahmadinejad leading by a more than 2 to 1 margin -- greater than his actual apparent margin of victory in Friday's election.

... our scientific sampling from across all 30 of Iran's provinces showed Ahmadinejad well ahead."


So I know that you hate the rural people Khostai, but you have to understand that they are the masses.

Read the history of democracy and secularism in America and Britain. Its been a centuries long process starting in Runny Meade hundreds of years ago.

You do not seem like you are foolish so why dont you even look at human beings as an example. If you take a child or even an adult and you force him to take a view, whether it is Islamist or secularist - you will see reactionaryism.

You initially commented that the rural people are stupid and that the communism and socialism movements were responses to Islamism.
This has no historical basis whatsoever. The rise of an Islamist response itself occurred and was potentially even hijacked at points during colonialism itself.

If you leave the rural people to their own selves they will solve their own problems. They will deal with their own Taliban and their own secularists and eventually find a middle road for themselves. But if you force them in either direction - you will see - as the Kharijaan want - perpetual war.