Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

What the rise of Salafi violence in Tunisia is telling us

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • What the rise of Salafi violence in Tunisia is telling us

    It is never fun when you are someone like me who is outside of the mainstream. It often feels like you are always kicked out of the party. Like prophet Jeremiah in the Bible who had to live outside the walls of Jerusalem after being shunned by his people and even his family. But one thing that an outsider has is the ability to detect the future and see where things are heading. Being outside the walls of the city we are able to see whats surrounding the city. Something that those inside can not do.

    The Arab revolutions is truly a turning point. A turning point in the sense that for the first time the culture of the political authority that have ruled the Muslim world since the Caliph Ali's death is being challenged. Young youths are calling for social justice, dignity and political freedom. This is unprecedent in Middle East history. For the first time the autocratic nature of governance is being challenged. Like the French revolution that paved the way for major political changes in Europe, the Tunisian revolution has paved the way for rapid and fast changing polical change in the Middle East. The speed of change of course is one major difference between the French and the Tunisian revolution. But there is another important distinction. The French revolution challenged both the political and the religious authorities of their day while the Tunisian and Arab revolutions limited itself to challenging the political authority. As in Egypt and elsewhere, the Tunisian masses convinced themelves that there is no contradiction between the calls for social justice, freedom and more transparency and Shariah law. In Egypt for instances the masses overwhelmingly supported article 2 of the constitution that stipulates that Shariah law is the main legislative authority of the state. Many Islamic groups and some of the clerics openly claimed that Shariah law is fully compatible with democracy and equality of all citizens under the law and freedom. Secularism? What secularism? There is no need for secularism. Islamic law is the best system and secularism is not needed. For many Muslims secularism is an admittance of defeat and that something is wrong with Islam. For most Muslims Shariah law is fully integrated with their understaning of Islam since it carries the Islam brand. For people like me outside the mainstream, I have to simply watch this deception and half truths. I have no piece of the microphone. The dictator does not want my kind of Islam around. But he is gone now, and my kind will soon be appearing at a tv station and radio and book store nearby you.

    What it shows is that modernity is having an enormous impact with the Muslim masses and Muslims like everybody else are attracted to modernity and democracy. It has no become a universal philosophy. It has become impossible to reverse this and many Islamic groups and authorities have joined the bandwagon. The idea here is that there is no contradiction between Shariah Law and democracy. The liberal authorities often have to walk a tight rope between their fears of an Islamic state and appearing to be against Islam to the masses. Many Islamic groups like the Tunisian Nahda party and the Muslim brotherhood have joined the democracy party. There has been no real religious debate and no real religious revision. Just like that Islam and democracy became one.

    There is a reason for all this. Not having a viable alternative, Muslims have no real choice but to accept the authority of Shariah law. Many do not know what it is but are leaving that responsibility to the clerics. The clerics though are hiding for the most part. A few have spoken out but most of them are hiding. A person like me keeps a close eye on the clerics since it is them who have the power of the fatwa and enjoy the highest religious authority with the Muslim masses. Unlike the Islamic parties who only care about coming to power, the clerics have to follow the juristic teachings of their sects.

    It is my belief that the clerics see a worrying future. A future where the inevitable clash between democracy and Shariah law is going to have to happen. But they are keeping it to themselves.

    This is why the rising violence now in Tunisia between the salafi groups and the intellectuals and Tunisian government is so important for someone like me. Because it exposes many aspect of the Islamic orthodoxies that the clerics have hidden from the masses. Unlike the Sufis who shun politics and avoid legalism in the public domian, the salafis very much are interested in the public domain. It is true that the salafi persuasion has some theological differences with the tradition Sunni orthodoxy, their legalism however is very much within the confinements of Sunni Islam.

    The salafis after failing to gain votes in the election decided to take to the streets issuing death fatwas to some intellectuals, smashing magazine stalls and attacking cinemas. This is not new, it has happened in the past in many places. But whats new is unlike the past there is no polictical dictatorship to distract the masses. Everybody is slowly seeing that the only ones standing in the way of a free democratic society are the salafis. The salafis claim that Shariah law is the law of the land and it should be implimented. Unlike the others, they are very sincere with their dogma and believe democracy is kufr. They are labelled extremist and militants by the Arab media. In Tunisia they have now become a security concern. I think a similar situation could be happening in Libya.

    Why this issue is so important to me is that sooner or later it forces the clerics to come out to the open. Muslims are told that these groups are extremist and do not reflect the true spirit of Islam. They will head towards the clerics to force them to comment on the issue and issue fatwas. In the past the clerics were seen as puppets of the dictators who issued fatwas they way the dictator wanted. Now they are exposed. They will be running out of excuses. Often there will be debates between the salafis and moderate clerics. The debate will end in a stalemate with neither side winning. Two interpretation of the same Islam. Both relying on the same sources but differ on how it should be applied and by whom. The history of Islam is all about the battle for authority. Something that the Roman Chruch never had to worry about since the Romans always had authority. The Meccan dynasties in islam like Ummayids and Abbasids and Fatimids were nobodies but carried the prophet's geneology. There only rise to fame was they were his descendants. Authority for them was a constant struggle. The emergence of the sects was a way for them to establish that authority. It will get ugly.

    What will Muslims discover then?

    They will discover that there is nothing the salafis are doing that is against Shariah law. They will discover that there is nothing extreme about what the salafis are saying or doing. In fact the salafis will come out as being more honest and sincere. The Shariah law is compatible with democracy bubble will burst. The clerics can not override the authorities of many Sunni clerics who authroized such behaviors. After all the Sunni orthodoxies overwhelmingly gave authority to the ruler who is now gone. Any group or organization can claim to be the ruler and the emir. There is nothing in Sunni or Shia Islam called elections and political parties and constitution. There is nothing in those that contradict the Sunni or Shia Islam but there is no reason why a Sunni or Shia can not refuse such authority. The salafis can always claim democracy is kufr, and if the government does not want to apply apostasy law than they will take matters in their own hands. There is very little the clerics can do.

    But shhhhh..... Don't say that to anyone you see. These guys are extremist and are not following true Islam. What are you saying? Islam is peace and freedom and all that. But deep down Muslim are somewhat suspicious. Why are these groups flourishing as they are? Why are they unable to be stopped? They have now reached Mali and Nigeria demanding Shariah law and in Nigeria in fact they are blowing churches. The sufi cover has blown away. The prayer beads and zikr chants and shaking of the heads has gone, and a very different face is now appearing. No doubt the clerics are feeling the heat. Shariah law after all was never designed for a democracy. It emerged during the Abbasid empire to help create a theocracy for an absolute monarchy that can compete with the Byzantinians and unify the Muslim empire under one legal authority under the Sultan. It was designed to give religious legitimacy and authority to the rulers of the Muslim Empire.

    Sooner or later Muslims will have to stop burrying their heads in the sand. They will discover that extremism is here to stay. They will discover that the extremist have their support in many aspects of Shariah law itself. Muslims will be the only people in the world unable to impliment a democracy. They will have three choices then. Either they accept the status quo, apostate or look for an alternative interpretation of Islam that they never knew existed.

    When there is a demand there will always be a supply.

  • #2
    I will quote two very interesting article, or rather observation that strikes at the heart of this topic. Why the rise of violence in Tunisia is so important. We don't know the future but the signs are there.


    First article:


    To every action there is always an equal and opposite reaction"
    Newton

    As I have been writing my book, Badal one of the primary concepts I have been promoting is that a single act of injustice leads to a never-ending cycle of violence that is near impossible to stop. In the same way it is smart to assume every action results in a reaction.


    Perhaps it's true that until the government doesn't stop being seen as a US stooge and fighting a fruitless war in the North-West the Taliban won't stop their attacks. A reaction to an action, you may say-brutal of course but still a reaction. However there are even reactions to reactions.


    In recent years there has been a rise in atheism in Pakistan. I have increasingly come to hear from and personally engage with more and more Pakistani atheists over the years. All have 'converted' from Islam. Most of these atheists cite reasons of intolerance, fanaticism and terrorism as the primary causes for giving up on their faith though there are some who were simply non-religious from the very beginning.


    In other words the atheists are reactionaries to reactionaries. Fanaticism and terrorism has made them what they are just as current American policy has turned many into terrorists.


    To understand the rise of atheism we must in essence explore the word itself and understand its meaning. Atheism means "Disbelief in, or denial of, the existence of a god." So since the atheists were Muslims before this means they are people who have lost or given up their belief in the existence of God. But atheists sometimes describe themselves in a different way.


    "Basically an atheist is someone who has lost his faith in God, just in the 'righteousness' of God, not necessarily his existence. That's how I see myself," says Ali, a 20 year old student.


    "How did you become an atheist?" I ask.


    "Well it was always the party lifestyle for me from the beginning. Drinking, dancing, you name it. I just never felt the same way about religion as others."


    Party lifestyle, I wondered. Almost all of those who identify themselves as Atheists belong to the affluent upper or upper-middle classes."How much did militancy, terrorism and intolerance have a role in you choosing atheism?" I asked. "Is terrorism the reason you left Islam?"


    "Somewhat," Ali replies. "I just can't understand why these Mullahs were so intolerant. I can't understand what these terrorists seek to achieve by their violence. When I saw these people killing innocents around me I felt loathing not just for the terrorists but also with myself because I shared something in common with them. I guess I wanted to be as far apart from them as possible. That was part of the reason I chose to be an atheist."


    Such reactions to the Taliban and their quest to impose religion on the entire population are rare but increasing. That's why I have always claimed imposing religion never works. In Ali's case it has done exactly the opposite of what it wished to achieve. It has driven a person away from religion instead of bringing him closer.


    "I am not trying to offend you but I feel terrorism may kill off Islam," Ali says.


    "Of course those are your personal views..." I began, trying not to sound too offended. After all I do happen to be a Muslim, though I am not by any means a terrorist sympathizer.


    No, it's true. When you kill innocent people you create a sense of antipathy for your religion. I mean I am not religious but I think it's something the Mullah's should watch out for, people being driven from their religion due to terrorism. Someone has to start condemning terrorism before it causes some massive reaction."


    Atheism is an opposite reaction to the strife and the destruction taking place in our country in the name of religion. After our conversation I thought back on Ali's reasons. Maybe it was true. Maybe the terrorism was causing people to loathe Islam, not just within our own society but outside too. Muslims today have a much bigger job countering opinions of them as terrorists.


    I have always pondered over this and have thought if we Muslims are just a little more tolerant we can do a much better job countering hate against ourselves. Plus it would leave a better image in the minds of people about our religion.

    http://havisultan.com/index.php?opti...ticle&id=102:m ilitancy-a-intolerance-causing-a-rise-in-atheism-in-pakistan&catid=64akistan-theology-a-religion&Itemid=71






    A similar situation is happening in Saudi Arabia. There are also reports of widespread conversions to Christianity in Algeria. I suspect Iraq will soon see some rise of atheism. Its hard to get accurate statistics because people hide such feelings. My gut tells me its more widespread than what meets the eye. Its going to grow because terrorism will not stop.

    In my opening post I said one thing you will be seeing in the future is this rise in atheism and conversion to other religions. This is directly due to the image of violence and intolerance that many people see in the Ummah. The Clerics are seen doing nothing and often are seen more concerned about alcohol and pornography than they are about violence. Perception here is everything.

    But only a few Muslims will resort to this. Most will look for an alternative.

    I have another take. This is from a forum:





    What do you get when you take out all faith from Islam and replace it with a cold rational materialism? You get a new brand of "Muslim" who calls himself a "Quran Aloner".... Granted not all of them are the same, and many are not as extreme as others, but one thing is certain: these are the people who will totally change the Islamic landscape within a century. This much is clear to me.

    This might sound like dialectics (its not) but a counterpart to the rightist Taliban has arisen in the extreme secular left. These are the people who will take over the Muslim world (FOX News was wrong, it won't be Osama bin Laden). These "Quran Aloners" are a very small and fragmented minority today, mostly in the middle to upper classes. But they contain all the characteristics that a future mainstream movement needs to have and become the dominant Muslim denomination of the future. And all the work that the radical conservative Muslims are doing is directly contributing to their rise.

    Their principles are diverse, but they have a few common beliefs. Almost all of them reject the "5 prayers" scheme. Some only accept 3, some reject the prayer totally, saying it was never meant to be an actual ritual. They also reject the significance of Mecca, and refuse to face it. Some of them believe that everything that takes place in Mecca is pagan idolatry.

    These beliefs may sound very far fetched and crazy to the mainstream Muslims today, but it is very clear to me that that these beliefs will become the mainstream views within the Muslim ummah. It happened with Rome, with Christianity, it happened again with the Reformation. And the same will happen in the Muslim world... It is the same pattern with every new religion. If it attracts the middle-to-upper classes at first, you can bet it will keep expanding until it is the dominant force. There are no statistics, but I bet they are adding at least 40% new members per decade, just as the LDS Church. Such a growth, while it seems small at first, is exponential.

    I don't really have much in common with mainstream Muslim sects either.. most of the time I am disagreeing with their beliefs... but this group of "Quran Aloners".... this is something completely different. Some of these people can hardly be considered Muslims at all, as some of them don't even believe in the finality of revelation, and feel that the Quran is "incomplete"... In my book, these people are much more dangerous then the Taliban, because their beliefs are much more attractive for the majority. Theirs will be a silent revolution, without weapons, without beheadings... And all the conservative Wahabi Taliban types are only making it easier for them, because it is -Islam- which is being put on the chopping block because of their actions.

    ... This is inevitable. There is no way to stop this... Many Muslims will convert to their side in the coming decades. Anyone in fact who values a self-negating "rationality" above faith will join their ranks. Maybe another war, or two, is all that is needed for a major shift in ideology to take place.. and when the time comes, these people will be waiting to step up and offer their "solution": a complete reformation of Islam, stripped of all faith... Setting the stage for a slow evaporation and drift towards a total materialistic atheism in the Muslim world....

    I say this is inevitable, because this time, unlike the time of the Mutazillites, there are no core battallions left in the Muslim world to hold back this tide of skepticism... Too much faith has eroded over the centuries... There are not going to be any more al-Thalabis or al-Ghazalis, this time... they will win.







    Somebody posted this in a forum. He is obviously talking about some of the more leftist groups. Maybe Rashad Khalifa types. But what caught my attention is he outines exactly what that article about atheism in Pakistan is saying. Mostly upper and middle class. But here he is talking about both, the Mutaziltes (perhaps the more exterme wing) and the atheist. Just like we are slowly observing in Pakistan. Muslims either moving away from Islam and Muslims looking for alternatives. Both due to the rise of violence and intolerance and the decline of Sufism.

    Need I need to say more?

    The third option is of course to simply accept that violence will always be part of the Islamic landscape. But i would not bet on that.

    That is why the violence in Tunisia is so important. Islam is becoming an obstacle to Muslims moving foreward. And thats bound to have religious implications. Its bound to have. We shall see.

    Comment


    • #3
      So you think what happend in europe and the rest of the world will happen in muslim world. The chances are big. If you look at Afghan history from Amanullah till precent you see each time secular and religious clashes. At this time Islamist have the power, but that is declining and eventualy secular and atheist will get to control the muslim world, not becuase they will supress the muslim peopel what wnanebe talibs think, but becuase the majority will run to them and choose there side.

      And the bigest example is Iran, each year there atheist and secularists vieuws are becoming popular and peopel want change....

      Comment


      • #4
        yes you're right Khostai, what you're saying is sad but very true......people like Friend and Afghanistan2010 don't realize that they're actually the Secularists best allies; because of their extreme mentality people start thinking that Islam is oppression and it scares them away from Islam.

        But it's funny in Palestine, Tunisia, Syria and Egypt the opposite happened, the leaders made secularism look bad, so people ran away from that

        What attracts people is the approach.
        [QUOTE=Afghanistan2010;658085][B]He is no different [COLOR="Red"]than us[/COLOR][/B],[B]he[COLOR="Red"] blindly believes [/COLOR]in the words [COLOR="Red"]of other men[/COLOR][/B],:[/QUOTE]

        2010 Admitting he's a blind believer not in God, but what other men says.

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by RevolutionThroughReason View Post
          yes you're right Khostai, what you're saying is sad but very true......people like Friend and Afghanistan2010 don't realize that they're actually the Secularists best allies; because of their extreme mentality people start thinking that Islam is oppression and it scares them away from Islam.

          But it's funny in Palestine, Tunisia, Syria and Egypt the opposite happened, the leaders made secularism look bad, so people ran away from that

          What attracts people is the approach.
          But that is not sad, its my wish for the Islamic world to become secularaised. Only I think I would be already dead when that day comes.
          But I really hoope that it will come as soon as possibel.

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by Khostai View Post
            But that is not sad, its my wish for the Islamic world to become secularaised. Only I think I would be already dead when that day comes.
            But I really hoope that it will come as soon as possibel.


            So you want them to make Islam look bad so that people will run to secularism?
            [QUOTE=Afghanistan2010;658085][B]He is no different [COLOR="Red"]than us[/COLOR][/B],[B]he[COLOR="Red"] blindly believes [/COLOR]in the words [COLOR="Red"]of other men[/COLOR][/B],:[/QUOTE]

            2010 Admitting he's a blind believer not in God, but what other men says.

            Comment


            • #7
              Islam is not owned by Taliban or any other group. Taliban is a part of Muslims who are putting ointment on the bruises of the Muslims of Afghanistan because all other guys are hiding in their houses can't fight for their land as their ancestors have fought in the past. So Taliban have taken this huge responsibility on their shoulders. They are giving their blood for the Afghans so the credit goes to them no doubt. Some fifty years ago there was no talib but still some people were fighting against the oppressors, today taliban are doing the same job, tomorrow there may be no talib and some other people would be fighting against the oppressors. This is life my dears, don't limit Islam or yourself to taliban. We are Muslims and we have this great responsibility to fight against the oppressors and spread the message of truth.
              Islam is a universal reality. No one can deny that. Your argument is wrong that people are running away from Islam. We have seen in the recent past that people are coming to Islam alhamdulillah.

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by RevolutionThroughReason View Post
                So you want them to make Islam look bad so that people will run to secularism?
                No, they don't have to make it look bad.....

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by Khostai View Post
                  No, they don't have to make it look bad.....


                  well what would be bad about Islam if these extremists aren't at fault?
                  [QUOTE=Afghanistan2010;658085][B]He is no different [COLOR="Red"]than us[/COLOR][/B],[B]he[COLOR="Red"] blindly believes [/COLOR]in the words [COLOR="Red"]of other men[/COLOR][/B],:[/QUOTE]

                  2010 Admitting he's a blind believer not in God, but what other men says.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Friend View Post
                    Is
                    Islam is a universal reality. No one can deny that. Your argument is wrong that people are running away from Islam. We have seen in the recent past that people are coming to Islam alhamdulillah.

                    No people are running away; they see Taliban murdering women in cars accusing them of being prostitutes, with no proof and evidence; they think "hmmm" Islam is for terrorists and murderers, when they see a man getting beheaded on video and these Taliban soldiers are glorifying such a gruesome death ...they think Islam is for cowards and murderers.

                    very few people understand that Taliban are not really Muslims; that they're really doing everything OPPOSITE of what Islam says.


                    do you think Khostai became how he is just automatically? No it is because of extremism that khostai stopped being Muslim.

                    Friend/EmKhan, it is your fault people are leaving Islam.
                    [QUOTE=Afghanistan2010;658085][B]He is no different [COLOR="Red"]than us[/COLOR][/B],[B]he[COLOR="Red"] blindly believes [/COLOR]in the words [COLOR="Red"]of other men[/COLOR][/B],:[/QUOTE]

                    2010 Admitting he's a blind believer not in God, but what other men says.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      We're talking about 2012


                      Thanks to Saudi Arabians, people hate Islam now. It's bot as simple as you make it; when Taliban come and say that what they're doing is what Islam teaches and then they start saying Muhammad (saw) did this and that so that means it is ok for us to do evil things to you. People start thinking, oh that is what Islam teaches? I don't want to be in it.

                      It's very simple many of these people were good and sincere, Even some hadith says you're supposed to preach Islam in the best possible manner; why does it say that if people will be Muslims anyways? It's how you make Islam look if you make it look harsh and cruel, who will want to stay a Muslim?
                      Last edited by RevolutionThroughReason; 06-26-2012, 01:25 PM.
                      [QUOTE=Afghanistan2010;658085][B]He is no different [COLOR="Red"]than us[/COLOR][/B],[B]he[COLOR="Red"] blindly believes [/COLOR]in the words [COLOR="Red"]of other men[/COLOR][/B],:[/QUOTE]

                      2010 Admitting he's a blind believer not in God, but what other men says.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Khostai, Maseed, Toramana, ...all of these people were once Muslims and they're from an afghan Pashtun background, Pashtuns were once known for being more devoted Muslims than even Hijazi Arabs!

                        If we see Pashtuns leaving Islam, that means extremists Misrepresenting Islam is what is driving people away
                        [QUOTE=Afghanistan2010;658085][B]He is no different [COLOR="Red"]than us[/COLOR][/B],[B]he[COLOR="Red"] blindly believes [/COLOR]in the words [COLOR="Red"]of other men[/COLOR][/B],:[/QUOTE]

                        2010 Admitting he's a blind believer not in God, but what other men says.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          They're not THAT tiny and they're growing,

                          Many sane people leave Islam because of the actions of misguided Muslims; because those Misguided Muslims all claim that they're doing it because of Islam and that their basis or justification is from Islamic Texts.

                          Even look in Saudi Arabia, that Kashgari guy, he didn't just make those comments because he hated Islam, he saw how the "Laws" are so corrupt and unjust in Saudi Arabia that he felt that the Problem is Islam.

                          They're the minority now yes, but slowly it will grow and grow because of these extremists

                          That is my point; extremists are making Islam look scary. and people will always run away from what scares them.
                          [QUOTE=Afghanistan2010;658085][B]He is no different [COLOR="Red"]than us[/COLOR][/B],[B]he[COLOR="Red"] blindly believes [/COLOR]in the words [COLOR="Red"]of other men[/COLOR][/B],:[/QUOTE]

                          2010 Admitting he's a blind believer not in God, but what other men says.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Listen .....al Arab ....Pashtuns are 10000000 x's better Muslims than Arabs , especially from Your part of the Arabian world ....they are more practicing, more devoted.

                            If Pashtuns can become atheists after being Muslim .....how can you say that people aren't getting pushed away from Islam by extremists?
                            [QUOTE=Afghanistan2010;658085][B]He is no different [COLOR="Red"]than us[/COLOR][/B],[B]he[COLOR="Red"] blindly believes [/COLOR]in the words [COLOR="Red"]of other men[/COLOR][/B],:[/QUOTE]

                            2010 Admitting he's a blind believer not in God, but what other men says.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Its starting from the people, In Afghanistan we used to have Taliban government, now people want more Secular government. bKashgari isn't who I am blaming, I am saying that the fact that Kashgari exists is evidence of what happens when People who have extremists attitudes scare people away from Islam.Pashtuns are better Muslims than Arabs that is for sure; you can see that easily because Gulf Arabs, especially Saudi Arabians have a lot of filthy things. Pashtuns are less filthy.But the point is, Pashtuns who are known for being more devoted to Islam than even Saudi Arabians are now running away from Islam. This forum is evidence of it. Just because you see a few White european faces doesn't change what is happening. People are losing interest in Islam because of the way Islam in Muslim countries is portrayed.
                              [QUOTE=Afghanistan2010;658085][B]He is no different [COLOR="Red"]than us[/COLOR][/B],[B]he[COLOR="Red"] blindly believes [/COLOR]in the words [COLOR="Red"]of other men[/COLOR][/B],:[/QUOTE]

                              2010 Admitting he's a blind believer not in God, but what other men says.

                              Comment

                              Working...
                              X