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  • Science ends here

    The guy raises extremely good points in this blog article, something that we rarely see in common "Islam and Science" arguments

    I am itching to get my hands on a recently published book, God Created the Universe by Fatehulla Khan. After reading the review of the book, I can safely assume it is yet another document in the long line of glorified assertions that much of what we call scientific truths today was mentioned in the scriptures a long time ago.

    Ever since the late French physician, Maurice Bucaille — on a hefty payroll of the Saudi royal family in Riyadh — wrote Islam, Bible & Science (1976), many believe that ‘proving’ scientific truths from holy books has been the exclusive domain of Muslims. However, in spite of being impressed by the holy book’s ‘scientific wonders’, Bucaille remained a committed Christian.

    Very few of my wide-eyed brethren know that long before Muslims, certain Hindu and Christian theologians had already laid claim to the practice of defining their respective holy books as metaphoric prophecies of scientifically proven phenomenon. They began doing so between the 18th and 19th centuries, whereas Muslims got into the act only in the 20th century.

    Johannes Heinrich’s Scientific vindication of Christianity (1887) is one example, while Mohan Roy’s Vedic Physics: Scientific Origin of Hinduism (1999) is a good way of observing how this thought has evolved among followers of other faiths. It is interesting to note how a number of Muslim ‘scientists’ have laboured hard to come up with convoluted interpretations of certain scriptures. Ironically, their ancient counterparts, especially between the 8th and 13th centuries in Baghdad and Persia, had put all effort in trying to understand natural phenomena and the human body and mind through hardcore science and philosophy.

    Those great men of Islamic antiquity weren’t over-reading into divine texts for scientific answers; instead, to them God’s command to reflect on nature and the world around them was enough to inspire them to become dedicated rational scientists and philosophers. They were celebrated not only by Muslims, but humanity at large for their scientific prowess.

    But, alas, beginning around the early 1970s, with the collapse of a secular nationalist mindset in the Muslim world, and the rise in influence of totalitarian oil-rich puritanical monarchies, Muslim polities and mindset began to suspect science as a tool of western and communist social engineering and imperialism.

    Whereas the wealthy monarchies remained firmly in the western camp during the Cold War, they aggressively proliferated reactionary literature that attacked both western and Marxist ideas across the Muslim world. Added to this was the propagated perception that modern science was the creation of the continuing Judo-Christian tradition (nay, ‘conspiracy’) aimed at undermining Islam.

    Many Arab as well as some western academics (who were paid large sums of money and perks) were continuously invited to the rich, conservative kingdoms and asked to scribble books claiming that the Muslim holy book was punctuated with scientific truths hundreds of years before the West discovered them in their labs.

    This practice — clearly emerging from a mixture of an inferiority complex and the passion for shouting down modern liberal and leftist notions — sanctified myopia and an unscientific bent of mind in the Muslim world. As many Muslim scientists such as Ziauddin Sardar and Pervez Hoodbhoy, and renowned Islamic scholars like Muhammad Akhund, have already lamented, Muslims through such literature are actually encouraged to drop out of any field or lab work required for genuine scientific research. Many are persuaded to follow the belief that all they need to know about science is already in the holy book.

    Rationalist Islamic scholars have been insisting throughout the 20th century to date that the holy book is less a book of laws or science. It is an elaborate moral guide for Muslims in which God has given the individual the freewill to decide for him or herself through exerting their mental faculties and striving to gain more empirical knowledge.

    Iranian writer, Vali Reza Nasr, is right to mourn the trend today that though most Muslims are quick to adopt western science, they simply refuse to assume a rational scientific mindset. No wonder then, for example, most Pakistanis still don’t have a clue about what the country’s only Nobel Prize winning scientist, Dr Abdus Salam, got the award for, but many are quick to quote from books written by super cranks like Harun Yahya and Maurice Bucaille, explaining how things like the Big Bang and others are endorsed in the holy book.

    In addition to such claptrap, there are already books out there claiming that electricity can be generated from jinns. A whole session was organised in Islamabad in the late 1980s during the Ziaul Haq regime in which fringe crackpots (disguised as scientists) were invited by the dictator to determine the ‘speed of heaven’, and how to overcome the energy crisis with the aid of jinns!

    So why read books of science, or enter a lab to understand the many workings of God’s nature and creatures; just read the holy book. Who knows you may find a theory on time travel and laser guns in it as well? Forget about all those great Muslim scientists of yore, or Abdus Salam, Einstein and Steve Hawkins. Just get in touch with your friendly neighbourhood jinn for all your energy needs.



  • #2
    Aww maaaaann... so much for "scientific miracles in the Quran"!

    On a serious note, about time someone said these things! Someone in the media, I mean. I knew Nadeem Paracha had a hell of a mind!

    And I had NO idea Maurice was not Muslim :O Someone told me he converted to Islam after discovering the "scientific miracles of the Quran" (I have his book, and it's too amusing; I'm waiting for an opportunity to write a critical review on it), and I was stupid enough to believe that he really did become a Muslim. Gosh. Well, this is news.

    I love the author's style, and the title of the article is very catchy. He does have a bold argument -- but then again, Paracha always does that

    I'm not fond of this whole Islam vs the West nonsense. Why do we have to stand against each other? "The WEST discovered this only recently, but look! Our Quran was sent over 1400 years ago, and we knew about it since then! You see how dumb the west REALLY is? You see how SMART Muslims really are?" What? As Nadeem Paracha says, let's just relax, then, and stop reading books of science and performing all these scientific experiments to "discover" something that has already been "revealed" in our holy books. What will get people to understand this extremely important point: It's how you *interpret* the text to conclude that "oh, oh! Our Holy Book, sent over 1400 years ago, said this already! And hahah you JUST discovered it!" No, our Book didn't say it, folks; interpreters interpreted the text SO that it says this!

    To us, theories are "JUST" theories (like evolution) -- unless they are "stated" in the Quran, then they're facts (like, supposedly, the Big Bang). The Big Bang is a theory that not all scientists accept; evolution is a theory that every single scientist has accepted and is even considered a fact by most scientists.

    It's called interpretation, folks. Decades later, if scientists realize that, no, the Big Bang never actually took place after all, what will we Muslims do? How will we interpret the Quranic verses that seem to hint towards the Big Bang? "Split asunder" ... that's what has come to mean the Big Bang.

    Great article! Thanks for sharing, AfghanSoulja.
    Last edited by Guest; 06-20-2010, 03:50 AM.

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    • #3
      Qrratugai, Nadeem Paracha is another one of us lol...

      In addition to such claptrap, there are already books out there claiming that electricity can be generated from jinns. A whole session was organised in Islamabad in the late 1980s during the Ziaul Haq regime in which fringe crackpots (disguised as scientists) were invited by the dictator to determine the ‘speed of heaven’, and how to overcome the energy crisis with the aid of jinns!
      This is not just a very-well written article but it's one that's essential, needed.

      Oh and Qrratugai, how long do you think before people queue up in this thread to say that Mr. Paracha is jealous of Zakir Naik?
      "If a nation expects to be ignorant and free, in a state of civilization, it expects what never was and never will be".

      "Knowledge will forever govern ignorance; and a people who mean to be their own governors must arm themselves with the power which knowledge gives".

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      • #4
        Originally posted by Levanaye Zalmaye View Post
        Qrratugai, Nadeem Paracha is another one of us lol...
        It's SO good to know! And, hey, he's not the only one on Dawn who's one of us There are a few others whose names slip my mind at the moment. I'll share them with you later. And, by God, there are may Pukhtuns who enjoy their works as well! (I'm on this Google Group called PPF-Canada (PPF = Pukhtunkhwa Peace Forum), and pretty much every single active member on the group is one of us! It makes me SO happy! It's SO relaxing to to read their posts, you see. And the kinds of stuff they say sometimes, maaayn, even *I* be shocked! That says a lot )


        Originally posted by Levanaye Zalmaye View Post
        This is not just a very-well written article but it's one that's essential, needed.
        Agreed. I've never read an article by Paracha that wasn't an essential one. Look into all of 'em.

        Originally posted by Levanaye Zalmaye View Post
        Oh and Qrratugai, how long do you think before people queue up in this thread to say that Mr. Paracha is jealous of Zakir Naik?
        lol. I was thinking of mentioning Zakir Naik's name in my response above (something like, "Hm... I wonder what Zakir Naik would say to this! Uh-oh!"), but then I was like, naaaah ... folks are already heartbroken that Naik is not allowed in the U.S. and the UK, so let's not say anything that'll make them even more angry. They were already angry seeing that not ALL Muslims don't think highly of Zakir Naik :p Only the ones who can't think for themselves do.

        So, yeah. But I still wonder what he'd say...

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        • #5
          Oh God, I can't stop reading it now! It's one of those articles that I'm likely to print on a beautiful colored piece of paper and hang it in my room. Like something that makes me shake my head slowly because it's genius! I do that a lot when reading Ghani Khan's poetry. Oh God, oh God!

          AfghanSoulja, thank you SO much for posting it here! I rarely read Dawn, but I must start doing so now.

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          • #6
            Excellent piece by NFP. He is a staunch secular democrat and very active against the rightist media of Pakistan.
            The problem isn't so much that of Islam vs the West or Islam vs the Rest. We are quite happy (I am not but the general mood is) to let religions exist as an escape to those who need one, but actually hoping and propagating religion as a social force or as a blue print for the State-Individual relationship or the mores of the society is not acceptable. That Islam, and all religions, are in contradiction to the dictums of Science and Rationality is as clear as the anything really, but should we allow this seemingly harmless and innocuous perception of Islam and Science being in sync to be propagated? No. Because it results in the perception that Islam, because it is as good as Science and as capable of solving the problems of humanity as Science. This, in turn, feeds the masses with juvenile expectations from Islam and forms the major propaganda point for the Global Islamists and Jihadists.
            Qrratugai, Unhinged_Youth have you guys ever done any research regarding the 'Golden Age of Islam'? What conclusions have you reached? Am I right in claiming that Avicenna's contribution is merely a commentary of Aristotle? Isn't Avicenna connected to the Bukharan Jewish Community somehow?

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            • #7
              QT I like reading dawn, infact it's my favorite among most of the muslim news sources. I wish we had more freedom to the media, so we could have people like this guy writing for our country.

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              • #8
                Originally posted by Qrratugai View Post
                It's SO good to know! And, hey, he's not the only one on Dawn who's one of us There are a few others whose names slip my mind at the moment. I'll share them with you later. And, by God, there are may Pukhtuns who enjoy their works as well! (I'm on this Google Group called PPF-Canada (PPF = Pukhtunkhwa Peace Forum), and pretty much every single active member on the group is one of us! It makes me SO happy! It's SO relaxing to to read their posts, you see. And the kinds of stuff they say sometimes, maaayn, even *I* be shocked! That says a lot )
                The names Irfan Hussein and Ardeshir Cowasjee come to my mind. Lol. And I personally know many of these PPF guys. They are all 'Dozakhiaan'. Infact, I have been influenced by many of them personally.

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                • #9
                  Pervez Hudboy is another prominent rationalist. I heard him at a conference in Islamabad on terrorism last year. He has always been a supporter of a secular Pakistan. His only 'disqualification' is that he is an Islmaili Moslem. He spoke at length about the trend of calling every calamity a US-Indian-Isreali (Yahud o Hunud o Nasaara) conspiracy. The Jang group, as in the Daily News and the daily Jang, and the Nawa e Waqt group are major bastions of the extremist thought.

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                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Nadir Shah View Post
                    The names Irfan Hussein and Ardeshir Cowasjee come to my mind. Lol. And I personally know many of these PPF guys. They are all 'Dozakhiaan'. Infact, I have been influenced by many of them personally.
                    YES! Irfan Hussain is definitely one of them! Haven't heard of or read anything by Cowasjee.... He doesn't sound familiar. Hoodbhoy is good as well.

                    And, yeah, of course they're all dozakhiaan. But so are you and I! Some of my friends like to joke that it's better to be in hell with people like Aristotle (I'm no fan of Aristotle, btw!) than to be in heaven with people like, say, Zakir Naik. I totally agree. Hell seems like the perfect place for intellectuals; that's where all will be ending up, according to your average theist.

                    Oh, and about your question regarding the Golden Age of Islam, I disagree. But I'll have to write on that in detail some other time ... like when it's not 4:17am here :p

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                    • #11
                      You take hell too lightly QT, we should be careful of how we express our thoughts sis.. All it takes is a one casual comment to wipe the slate clean on a lifes worth of good deeds

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                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Qrratugai View Post
                        YES! Irfan Hussain is definitely one of them! Haven't heard of or read anything by Cowasjee.... He doesn't sound familiar. Hoodbhoy is good as well.

                        And, yeah, of course they're all dozakhiaan. But so are you and I! Some of my friends like to joke that it's better to be in hell with people like Aristotle (I'm no fan of Aristotle, btw!) than to be in heaven with people like, say, Zakir Naik. I totally agree. Hell seems like the perfect place for intellectuals; that's where all will be ending up, according to your average theist.

                        Oh, and about your question regarding the Golden Age of Islam, I disagree. But I'll have to write on that in detail some other time ... like when it's not 4:17am here :p
                        This reminds me of 'our little private joke' regarding when the people thought that Pashto will be the lingua franca of Dozakh. We used to rejoice because all the great and influential people like Pharoah, Socrates, Aristotle, Einstein etc would speak Pashto. Then we can let the guys like Ayyubi, Tariq Ziyad, Muhammad Kassim and the rest of the blind followers speak Arabic happily.

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                        • #13
                          Originally posted by AfghanSoulja View Post
                          You take hell too lightly QT, we should be careful of how we express our thoughts sis.. All it takes is a one casual comment to wipe the slate clean on a lifes worth of good deeds
                          Malgariya, 'Inamal Aamalo Bin Niyaat'. Rather than making you an obstructionist and a good-for-nothing lmaanzi and rojadaar, the fear of hell should instill in you a force not to make life hell for others, help the people, your Pashtun nation and contribute to the cause of humanity. If 100 people can be like this, We will all believe in Hell.

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                          • #14
                            Yes, Airpaan Hussain is an ardent secularist.

                            Originally posted by Nadir Shah View Post
                            Qrratugai, Unhinged_Youth have you guys ever done any research regarding the 'Golden Age of Islam'? What conclusions have you reached? Am I right in claiming that Avicenna's contribution is merely a commentary of Aristotle? Isn't Avicenna connected to the Bukharan Jewish Community somehow?
                            I think I wouldn't go as far as to say that Avicenna's works were mere translations. He was a brilliant mind, I don't doubt that. His books speak for themselves. I'll post some references later if you want.. At the same time, men such as Alhazen, al-Khwarizmi, ibn Khuldun, etc were innovators in their own fields. However, I will concede that our history books over-glorify the achievements of many lesser Medieval Middle-Eastern scientists who made no breakthroughs whatsoever.

                            Here's my view on this. Some people claim that those Medieval scientists somehow achieved what they did because of Islam. That argument is so ridiculous, it doesn't even need to be refuted. I say that they achieved what they did in spite of what religion they were followed. Indeed, more scientific progress has been made in the last 100 or so years than ever before and it has all been made by 'hell-bound' and 'immoral' infidels.

                            Interestingly, a lot of the 'Arab' scholars were Persian, Turkish and Spanish but are unfortunately, remembered by the Arabic titles conferred upon them. I think it's highly discouraging and troubling that we have more people spending more time following the likes of Medieval theologians (the Persian Abu Hanifa for example) than we have following, for example, the work of Avicenna.
                            "If a nation expects to be ignorant and free, in a state of civilization, it expects what never was and never will be".

                            "Knowledge will forever govern ignorance; and a people who mean to be their own governors must arm themselves with the power which knowledge gives".

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Levanaye Zalmaye View Post
                              Yes, Airpaan Hussain is an ardent secularist.



                              I think I wouldn't go as far as to say that Avicenna's works were mere translations. He was a brilliant mind, I don't doubt that. His books speak for themselves. I'll post some references later if you want.. At the same time, men such as Alhazen, al-Khwarizmi, ibn Khuldun, etc were innovators in their own fields. However, I will concede that our history books over-glorify the achievements of many lesser Medieval Middle-Eastern scientists who made no breakthroughs whatsoever.

                              Here's my view on this. Some people claim that those Medieval scientists somehow achieved what they did because of Islam. That argument is so ridiculous, it doesn't even need to be refuted. I say that they achieved what they did in spite of what religion they were followed. Indeed, more scientific progress has been made in the last 100 or so years than ever before and it has all been made by 'hell-bound' and 'immoral' infidels.

                              Interestingly, a lot of the 'Arab' scholars were Persian, Turkish and Spanish but are unfortunately, remembered by the Arabic titles conferred upon them. I think it's highly discouraging and troubling that we have more people spending more time following the likes of Medieval theologians (the Persian Abu Hanifa for example) than we have following, for example, the work of Avicenna.
                              I meant to point out that the source of many of the thoughts of Avicenna were the works of Aristotle. On the same note, the Moslem 'Golden Age' was indebted to the Indian and Greek mathematics, philosophy and astronomy. No? The purpose was to disconnect scientific advancements from Islam.
                              Avicenna, Bukhari, Al Khwarzimi were all Persians.

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