Militancy & Intolerance causing a rise in atheism in Pakistan

[Shehbaz Khan]

Anybody who has visited Pakistan should know that being an atheist in Pakistan is pretty much impossible. I remember seeing Bengali Hindus in Karachi[Gulistan-E-Jauhar to be precise], who obviously didn't fast during Ramadan, hide underneath their little shops to eat food. They were literally hiding.

Faith should be a personal choice, but in a banana state like Pakistan, law & order does not exist.

Admin Jana, no offense but when you are talking about a city like Karachi ofcourse what you are trying to say here is wrong.

Yes you find it hard to eat during Ramadhan as the shops are closed all of them because who will open a shop if nobody is going to come and ask for food?

But hide underneath? Hell NO and that too in Gulistan-e-Johar? I'm sorry, but if you would have said this about an area which would have been controlled by the Jumatis I would have believed. But Not in case of Gulistan-e-Johar. Totally Controlled by MQM and most of the Mohajirs themselves don't fast during Ramadhan .. I will say 5% of them don't .. that's what I observed in the city in the past 5- years.

[abassinafghan]

there several differences , some of our minorities lived for centuries with us , we have a common history

most of the tajiks uzbeks and turkmens came as refugees when the sulatanats of smarkand /taschkent fell , and second time when communists took over power in 1917 ... ahmad shah massouds grandfather was one of this refugees , they have no legitimit claim , only foreign help.... unfourtently our people look at those people as muslim brothers with not bad intend , and which is also good to a certain degree , but missing that there are alot of problems , which show off today ...


in opposite in pakistan , two total different territories where GIVEN by the british raj to ismaeli shia regime of former raj civil servants in the name of creating a muslim indian state , punjabis as sindhis are nothing more then muslim indians , denied as much you wont but thats the truth ...

most of those punjabis has got no connection not historical nor personal to balots or pashtuns . infact they were the seypois and support troops of the brits taking punish expeditions into pashtuns lands !!!!!

so there is no historical connection to them ... let alone society wise ....

dont your self get ditracted by some stupid tajokes or hazaras who are living for 30 plus in the west and spreading their facist propaganda .... they dont represent the tajiks in watan , they have much simplier and easier reasons to "revolt " .....

the soviet union was also a nuclear state , light years more developed than pakistan , if american and british dont need them anymore , they will collapse , in a short time ..... but as long there is a need of sting in the side of southasia of loyal servants ,know for their service in 3 generations , it wont happen very soon , but things may change ....

[Shehbaz Khan]

That post wasn't serious. It was meant as a joke.

Anyways I assume that when you speak of "WE", you mean pashtuns.

Now as a proud Pashtun and Pakistani, what would you do if there was conflict of interest between Afghanistan (50% pashtuns) and Pakistan (50% punjabi and 15% pashtun)?

Pakistan is 50% Punjabi? I didn't know it !!

I will go for Pakistan ofcourse.

[Karachi]

Look at this mohajir telling others what they should do. Ran to Pakistan like coward when Indian mobs were attacking him. Now talking about breaking Pakistan.

who is talking about breaking pakistan? I was replying to Badmashkhel, that pakistan can become in to three countries potentially because it has three distinct cultural zones. one is KP/Balochistan, the other being Punjab/Sindh and the third being the Dardic areas. how is that wrong?

I think you are just being racist and way too blind nationalist now

[khushal]

Totally Controlled by MQM and most of the Mohajirs themselves don't fast during Ramadhan .. I will say 5% of them don't .. that's what I observed in the city in the past 5- years.

So 5% is most and 95% is some. are you redefing things here shahbaza?

Ive seen the same thing, they all hide and eat.

[Karachi]

l


I apologize for my post. I am a Nationalist and ex leader of a Nationalist organization. It is unbefitting to insult one of the races within the Nation.

I have nothing against Mohajirs and in our family we have intermarried in many cases.

But you're not being helpful and your post angered me.
There is enough to defend against without you adding your "helpful" posts.

Even if the culture is so different there is no reason we can't live together. Look at India. Its 1000's of cultures pushed into one. They have over 150 languages. Are they putting up for this crap.

Our blood is one and we are one nation. Without the Pashtuns or Baloch wanting to go out of Pakistan the person who is suggesting it can only be called a fool. #Unnecessarydivisions.

What do you plan to do. Kick Pashtuns out of their own country? 60 years is enough time to accept Pakistan. This "for thousand years I was Pashtun so I can't be Pakistani" crap is seen for what it is by most Pashtuns. Total racist crap. These people are disgrace to real Pashtuns.

The thing with India is that they are 90% Indic and speak indic languages, but look at some parts India close to burma and china in the east, they have separatist movements there because they dont want indic people to impose their culture / languages on them, and even look at kashmir, the biggest reason kashmiris dont want to be part of india is because they have a distinct culture and language from the indics to the south and they feel threatened that their culture will vanish if they become part of India. But again like I said India has 90% indic cultures/languages, so in over all context, it looks like they have far fewer problems then us.

Also it is ok being a nationalist, as long as you are not a blind nationalist, who doesn't see the struggle for minorities in your country and impose your blind nationalism on others

Do you think I like it when (Urdu) is imposed on others like (sindhis) and they loose their culture/language because of us?

Punjabi majority and Urduspeakers in Sindh have a huge responsibility towards other ethnic groups in the country, we must make sure not to impose our cultures and languages on them, so they dont feel threatened. Every minority in pakistan deserves equal rights, so they dont feel the need to seperate from pakistan

But seriously speaking I have serious doubts that the politicians and ISI in Islamabad will ever change their ways, they dont really care for the baloch, sindhis, Fata pashtuns, or Gilgit/Baltistanis. Realistically speaking how do you see pakistan as one nation, if the minorities are struggling so much and politicians and ISI are doing nothing?

You might be living a luxury life in Lahore/Islamabad or Karachi, but just try to live in those areas as a minority in pakistan, and then you will see the reality

Lastly, I dont want to see pakistan breakup, but you guys who are powerful must change your ways and try bringing equality to the whole country, if you want pakistan to survive. It's no use being blind nationalist if so many people in your country are struggling, help them first, make pakistan prosperous and then be a nationalist

[Kurmewal]

Actually, what is causing an increase in athiesm in Pakistani [high] society is the constant need to appear "modern" (Westernized) in front of others, which is the product of British colonial rule in South Asia.Personally, I know atleast 3 athiests of Pakistani origin and all come from rich families.

[R3SISTANC3]

In Pakistan the "atheists" don't know what being an "atheist" means. You can say that most of these "atheists" are cultural Muslims and not devoted, practicing Muslims yet Islamism is part of their Pakistani identity. Without Islam there is no Pakistan, and if there is no Pakistan then there is no Pakistani.

Do actual atheists in Pakistan exist? There are a few actual atheists. Most of the elite are irreligious, and only subscribe to Islam as part of their cultural identity. The army and intelligence agencies are full of such people. But they know that the vast majority of the Pakistani public, poor and rural are very much Muslim so they make sure that their cultural Islamic identity is always visible when addressing the ignorant masses just like Mohammad Ali Jinnah and Alama Iqbal.

In the recent past, lower ranking army and agency officers have become extremely religious and subscribe to an apocalyptic destiny for their country in the ultimate battle between good vs. evil where Pakistan will play a major role on the side of good.

Those at the very top, who actually do call the shots are very much irreligious. People like Zardari, Musharaf, Taseer, Bhutto, Gilani, Nawaz etc.

Here is a good example of who rules Pakistan, and how important Islam is to them:

Rehman Malik Reciting Sura Ikhlas Wrongly - YouTube

^This guy probably prayed once in his life.

[R3SISTANC3]

"Basically an atheist is someone who has lost his faith in God, just in the 'righteousness' of God, not necessarily his existence. That's how I see myself," says Ali, a 20 year old student.





Atheism = the rejection of belief in the existence of deities, whether righteous or not. Like I said these people think they are "atheists" but most likely have no clue what it means.

[Al Hanif]

[faye]

al-hanif=drone.
drone=people who do things to 'fit in' but are actually annoying and not cool in the first place. lol

[haviZsultan]

The thing with India is that they are 90% Indic and speak indic languages, but look at some parts India close to burma and china in the east, they have separatist movements there because they dont want indic people to impose their culture / languages on them, and even look at kashmir, the biggest reason kashmiris dont want to be part of india is because they have a distinct culture and language from the indics to the south and they feel threatened that their culture will vanish if they become part of India. But again like I said India has 90% indic cultures/languages, so in over all context, it looks like they have far fewer problems then us.

Also it is ok being a nationalist, as long as you are not a blind nationalist, who doesn't see the struggle for minorities in your country and impose your blind nationalism on others

Do you think I like it when (Urdu) is imposed on others like (sindhis) and they loose their culture/language because of us?

Punjabi majority and Urduspeakers in Sindh have a huge responsibility towards other ethnic groups in the country, we must make sure not to impose our cultures and languages on them, so they dont feel threatened. Every minority in pakistan deserves equal rights, so they dont feel the need to seperate from pakistan

But seriously speaking I have serious doubts that the politicians and ISI in Islamabad will ever change their ways, they dont really care for the baloch, sindhis, Fata pashtuns, or Gilgit/Baltistanis. Realistically speaking how do you see pakistan as one nation, if the minorities are struggling so much and politicians and ISI are doing nothing?

You might be living a luxury life in Lahore/Islamabad or Karachi, but just try to live in those areas as a minority in pakistan, and then you will see the reality

Lastly, I dont want to see pakistan breakup, but you guys who are powerful must change your ways and try bringing equality to the whole country, if you want pakistan to survive. It's no use being blind nationalist if so many people in your country are struggling, help them first, make pakistan prosperous and then be a nationalist

Karachi, I have to agree with your post. There is a great disparity in wealth distribution in the country which seriously needs to come to an end for the sake of our growth.

That is why if I am successful I plan to build a school in Balochistan.

It is our responsibility and total duty to help the poor and oppressed sections of society.

Pakistan is currently dominated by the Punjabi and the Urdu speaker. For the sake of the union they will eventually have to cede some of their authority and power. But things are not that bad.

Sometimes we just want to blame. People like damalakandghar think this is all the fault of the Punjabis and Pashtuns are noble folk who are not at all responsible for what is happening. We need to accept the blame everyone of us because we are all at fault.

Hahaha.. I am not that powerful. I had some influence but I lost it. I am very sick currently. Plus my power mostly extended to 12000 out of the 18 crore of our country. I was head of a small organizations foreign chapter with only 200 members. Plus there were demands from my followers to take a "Nationalist Stand"... had to follow the general push and pull...

Of course I knew some generals and people in high up locations but that can also be attributed to being a journalist rather than a Nationalist organizations chapter head. No scratch that some of our members were powerful so it was also because of being in our organization.

Karachi you and me are no different. Do not lose hope and if you truly believe in these ideas then don't let anything stop you for doing something for the Baloch or other alienated races.

Actually, what is causing an increase in athiesm in Pakistani [high] society is the constant need to appear "modern" (Westernized) in front of others, which is the product of British colonial rule in South Asia.Personally, I know atleast 3 athiests of Pakistani origin and all come from rich families.

Well these guys cited some things about science not agreeing with religion, and intolerance. All of them spoke of a lot of intolerance and terrorism as reasons that had pushed them away from God.

But it is an experience to know atheists. I like knowing about people with different beliefs and ideas which is why i liked my conversations with these guys.

[haviZsultan]

"Basically an atheist is someone who has lost his faith in God, just in the 'righteousness' of God, not necessarily his existence. That's how I see myself," says Ali, a 20 year old student.





Atheism = the rejection of belief in the existence of deities, whether righteous or not. Like I said these people think they are "atheists" but most likely have no clue what it means.

Actually thats how its supposed to be and thats the dictionary meaning too. I guess whatever works for them.

They called themselves atheists so I put them in that bandwagon labelled atheist and off we went.

There was a third atheist too (he seemed like the real deal-no belief in God good or bad) but I couldn't properly interview him.

[abassinafghan]

Pakistan is a state of kafirs founded by kafirs and every one reffering himself as a pakistani is a kafir and every one who denies this is a kafir

[Shehbaz Khan]

Pakistan is a state of kafirs founded by kafirs and every one reffering himself as a pakistani is a kafir and every one who denies this is a kafir

Pearls of wisdom, Indeed.