Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

Militancy & Intolerance causing a rise in atheism in Pakistan

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • Militancy & Intolerance causing a rise in atheism in Pakistan

    Militancy & Intolerance causing a rise in Atheism in Pakistan



    "To every action there is always an equal and opposite reaction"
    Newton
    As I have been writing my book, Badal one of the primary concepts I have been promoting is that a single act of injustice leads to a never-ending cycle of violence that is near impossible to stop. In the same way it is smart to assume every action results in a reaction.


    Perhaps it's true that until the government doesn't stop being seen as a US stooge and fighting a fruitless war in the North-West the Taliban won't stop their attacks. A reaction to an action, you may say-brutal of course but still a reaction. However there are even reactions to reactions.


    In recent years there has been a rise in atheism in Pakistan. I have increasingly come to hear from and personally engage with more and more Pakistani atheists over the years. All have 'converted' from Islam. Most of these atheists cite reasons of intolerance, fanaticism and terrorism as the primary causes for giving up on their faith though there are some who were simply non-religious from the very beginning.


    In other words the atheists are reactionaries to reactionaries. Fanaticism and terrorism has made them what they are just as current American policy has turned many into terrorists.


    To understand the rise of atheism we must in essence explore the word itself and understand its meaning. Atheism means "Disbelief in, or denial of, the existence of a god." So since the atheists were Muslims before this means they are people who have lost or given up their belief in the existence of God. But atheists sometimes describe themselves in a different way.


    "Basically an atheist is someone who has lost his faith in God, just in the 'righteousness' of God, not necessarily his existence. That's how I see myself," says Ali, a 20 year old student.


    "How did you become an atheist?" I ask.


    "Well it was always the party lifestyle for me from the beginning. Drinking, dancing, you name it. I just never felt the same way about religion as others."


    Party lifestyle, I wondered. Almost all of those who identify themselves as Atheists belong to the affluent upper or upper-middle classes."How much did militancy, terrorism and intolerance have a role in you choosing atheism?" I asked. "Is terrorism the reason you left Islam?"


    "Somewhat," Ali replies. "I just can't understand why these Mullahs were so intolerant. I can't understand what these terrorists seek to achieve by their violence. When I saw these people killing innocents around me I felt loathing not just for the terrorists but also with myself because I shared something in common with them. I guess I wanted to be as far apart from them as possible. That was part of the reason I chose to be an atheist."


    Such reactions to the Taliban and their quest to impose religion on the entire population are rare but increasing. That's why I have always claimed imposing religion never works. In Ali's case it has done exactly the opposite of what it wished to achieve. It has driven a person away from religion instead of bringing him closer.


    "I am not trying to offend you but I feel terrorism may kill off Islam," Ali says.


    "Of course those are your personal views..." I began, trying not to sound too offended. After all I do happen to be a Muslim, though I am not by any means a terrorist sympathizer.


    No, it's true. When you kill innocent people you create a sense of antipathy for your religion. I mean I am not religious but I think it's something the Mullah's should watch out for, people being driven from their religion due to terrorism. Someone has to start condemning terrorism before it causes some massive reaction."


    Atheism is an opposite reaction to the strife and the destruction taking place in our country in the name of religion. After our conversation I thought back on Ali's reasons. Maybe it was true. Maybe the terrorism was causing people to loathe Islam, not just within our own society but outside too. Muslims today have a much bigger job countering opinions of them as terrorists.


    I have always pondered over this and have thought if we Muslims are just a little more tolerant we can do a much better job countering hate against ourselves. Plus it would leave a better image in the minds of people about our religion.


    Another atheist I contacted prefers to remain anonymous. Not strange considering the intolerance prevalent in Pakistani society. He talks about how he gradually grew distant from his religion and beautifully describes the turning points that made him an atheist.


    "My friend wanted me to be more religious," he says eventually coming to the problems he has faced as an atheist. "She tried to prove God's existence but failed."


    A number of questions shot through my head. "Why couldn't your friend just accept you were non-religious?" I asked. "Do you think it was right for her to impose her beliefs?" I didn't ask any of them. Instead I encouraged him onwards though I did display my disdain at his friend's quest to impose religion.


    "After this she decided she didn't want to be friends"


    "So if you're not a Muslim, you cannot be a friend" I said to myself, appalled. That moment I realized just how hard it must be to be a minority in our country. Atheists went against the norms in society and made themselves targets of bias and discrimination. They must have some strong conviction to do that.


    It set the wheels in my mind turning again. Trying to impose religion only distanced the person further and further from Islam. Shouldn't we try to abandon this fruitless quest to convert everyone to our thinking and rather concentrate on winning people over with honourable and true intentions and actions?


    The conversation carried on and it appeared sharing his atheist beliefs, opinions and conviction's is no easier for him. "At least three friends distanced themselves from me when I shared this," He refers to atheism as "this" unlike other atheists, probably in fear of what it means.


    My anonymous friend was too afraid to say it in the fear of offending me somehow but I understood how sad his 'friends not being friends anymore' must have made him. It was like having a black mark on him forever. As long as he was anything but a 'Muslim' he would always be treated differently.


    However as the conversation continued he did mention how frustrating things were for him. "I've told a few close friends and they feel repelled. It's worse than being a Hindu or Christian."


    As long as intolerance, fanaticism and bigotry remains ingrained in our thinking we can expect to see more and more atheists-again a reaction to intolerance. It proves one thing beyond doubt. That trying to impose religion never works but can rather cause the opposite of what it seeks to achieve.


    The purpose of militants has been to bring Muslims closer to their religion but their actions are causing exactly the opposite reaction. Some people, annoyed with the violence the militants are preaching are turning away from Islam despite the guaranteed fact that they are going to suffer bias and discrimination as a consequence.


    Meanwhile my anonymous friend says nervously, "I was and to some extent still am afraid of becoming an atheist.


    Needless to say I understand the fear of "becoming an atheist". It means you will forever be mistreated and your rights ignored. Pakistani society does not go easy on atheists and Non-Muslims. If atheists have come out and spoken about their experiences it is a truly remarkable feat for them. It takes courage to admit to being something that is despised in society.


    Let's hope tolerance prevails and we leave at least the atheists out of the violence that has befallen Hindus and Christians in the past.


    -------------------------------------------------------------------------


    http://havisultan.com/index.php?opti...gion&Itemid=71


    ^^^^^^^^^^^^ Make sure you go here and rate the article or comment if you like it. There is something wrong with the read more option which is not allowing people to read the whole article on my site... (I am not a professional at running my own website you may judge from this)


    I conducted interviews with 3 atheists for this article. I didn't include an interview with one of them in the article. I would like people to give their views on this. Especially since the Talibani population on PF is high I am looking forward to some angry responses.



    What do you think about these peoples conversion away from Islam? Is it our fault and the fault of terrorism or was their faith weak all the time?
    I am the author of Badal, an upcoming fiction novel on the War on Terror. For more information about me visit [URL="http://www.havisultan.com"]www.havisultan.com[/URL]

    Follow me on twitter:
    [url]https://twitter.com/#!/HaviZSultan[/url]

  • #2
    The rise of atheism in Pakistan


    Counter-extremism expert, Ghaffar Hussain catches up with 'Hazrat Nakhuda' - founder of the 'Pakistani Atheists and Agnostics' Facebook group.
    An increasing number of young Pakistani’s are adopting Atheism and openly questioning the existence of a God. Many analysts have attributed this trend to the rise of Islamist militancy in Pakistan as well as access to social media and other technological tools that allow people to share and explore new ideas.
    A Facebook group called ‘Pakistani Atheists and Agnostics’ was launched a few months ago and has already attracted over 800 members. I caught up with the founder of this group, a young Pakistani Technologist operating under the pseudonym ‘Hazrat Nakhuda’, in order to discuss this new phenomenon.
    Ghaffar: What inspired you to launch the Pakistani Atheists and Agnostics group?
    Hazrat Nakhuda: Atheist groups and movements are a global trend. PAA is a part of that but it is different. The problem is that most of the groups for freethinkers are in secular countries. In my view the battle for reason, rationality and freethinking doesn’t need to be fought (with urgency) in England, Holland or Canada. It is here, in countries like Pakistan, Afghanistan and Saudi Arabia where we need to fight the battle for reason. It is here where the battle will be the most hard-hitting, it is here where reason needs to triumph, and it is here where we can’t afford to lose.
    Almost every Muslim-majority country is under-developed economically or socially. I believe that when a religion is adopted by a state it stifles progress. Pakistanis are running 40,000 Madrasas but 30 percent of the children under the age of 5 are malnourished.
    We missed our millennium goals to eradicate polio because we couldn’t run the refrigerators that housed the vaccine, but we spent a fortune on the ‘Islamic bomb’.
    This country would praise Mumtaz Qadri (the murderer of Salman Taseer), and yet marginalize the only Nobel laureate of the country because he was from minority sect.
    If you want to see how much a hindrance religion can be in the progress of a nation, look at Pakistan.
    G: What led you to questioning religion and ultimately becoming an Atheist?
    HN: I was an Islam Apologist. The thing that got me started was the idea that the reason I was a Muslim was simply because I was born into a Muslim Family.
    The nerve to claim one specific religion and one specific God out of hundreds as the real God, and rejecting all others merely because ones parents asserted so, seemed too presumptuous.
    That is when I started rejecting and accepting ideas based on arguments rather than scripture. Once you start doing that, it is only a matter of time.
    G: Is your approach ontological, scientific or more political?
    HN: Initially it was ontological. Now it is more political and scientific.
    G: How open are you about your view and your activities in Pakistan?
    HN: Within my circle of friends I am very open. My family knows I don’t believe in God but they don’t know that I am in a leading role in such an organization. Obviously I use a pseudonym that alone should tell you how open I can be.
    G: Would you say Atheism is on the increase in Pakistan?
    HN: It is on the rise. Not as much as I hoped to but it is on the rise. There is a huge amount of closet atheists in Pakistan. For every member of the organization I get an email from five others telling me that they want to join but can’t.
    G: And why do you think it’s on the rise?
    HN: Why is it on the rise? Well if I had to put forward what I see as the most pertinent reason, it would have to be the internet and social media. We are connected like nothing else. A boy in a small town outside Lahore can watch a lecture by Richard Dawkins, Carl Sagan and Christopher Hitchens. Ten years ago it wasn’t that easy.
    Another reason is the fact that Pakistanis are obsessed with trying to prove to the world that Islam is right. When people like that go to online forums to debate other people they get asked questions that, as a born Muslim, they don’t ask themselves.
    G: What is the profile of your average member?
    HN: The majority of the members are young, between the ages of 16 and 32. Most of them are urban Middle class and Educated; doctors, engineers, computer programmers, lawyers, business persons, artists, and so on. Most of the members also tend to be from the three major cities: Lahore, Karachi & Islamabad.
    But we have people from as far away as FATA (Federally Administered Tribal Areas). There is also a huge overseas Pakistani population. Interest areas range from politics, economics to domestic issues.
    G: What kind of response have you had from Pakistani Muslims?
    HN: So far it is encouraging. But there is the odd individual who expresses his desire to behead me.
    G: How much of this trend is attributable to political events and the rise of Islamist militancy in the region?
    HN: The rise of Islamist militancy has made more ‘closet’ atheists ‘come out’. Has it made more people in Pakistan become atheist/agnostics? No it hasn’t. It has in some cases put people on the path to questioning their own faith but not to abandoning it. I find that almost all people abandon faith because of scientific and philosophical arguments rather than geo-political events.
    G: How has social media and the internet aided your work?
    HN: It is the backbone of everything we do. It is how members interact with each other. All this started out on forums and groups on the social media.
    G: What are your plans for the future?
    HN: Right now most Pakistanis aren’t even aware that there is an option to not believe in God; they don’t question the existence of God and generally don’t believe that Atheists exist. What is more, according to a Gallup poll, 78 percent of Pakistanis believe that a person who leaves Islam should be killed. And finally, Pakistan has very strict blasphemy laws. If I get to change these three things in my life time, I would die a happy man.
    Ghaffar Hussain is a leading independent counter-extremism expert.


    https://e-paa.org/news/rise-atheism-pakistan
    I am the author of Badal, an upcoming fiction novel on the War on Terror. For more information about me visit [URL="http://www.havisultan.com"]www.havisultan.com[/URL]

    Follow me on twitter:
    [url]https://twitter.com/#!/HaviZSultan[/url]

    Comment


    • #3
      that law is in physics, dummy. and this rise in atheism in pakistan is ludicrous. out of the closet atheists cant even walk the streets let alone come out of the closet.

      Comment


      • #4
        Anybody who has visited Pakistan should know that being an atheist in Pakistan is pretty much impossible. I remember seeing Bengali Hindus in Karachi[Gulistan-E-Jauhar to be precise], who obviously didn't fast during Ramadan, hide underneath their little shops to eat food. They were literally hiding.

        Faith should be a personal choice, but in a banana state like Pakistan, law & order does not exist.
        Even Adobe Photoshop can't change me.

        A line[Durrand line] of hatred that raised a wall between the two brothers -Hamid Karzai

        For generations, the Hindus of India prayed for deliverance from "the venom of the cobra, the teeth of the tiger and the vengeance of the Afghan."


        The men of Kábul and Khilj also went home; and whenever they were questioned about the Musulmáns of the Kohistán (the mountains), and how matters stood there, they said, "Don't call it Kohistán, but Afghánistán; for there is nothing there but Afgháns and disturbances." Thus it is clear that for this reason the people of the country call their home in their own language Afghánistán, and themselves Afgháns. The people of India call them Patán; but the reason for this is not known. But it occurs to me, that when, under the rule of Muhammadan sovereigns, Musulmáns first came to the city of Patná, and dwelt there, the people of India (for that reason) called them Patáns—but God knows!

        -Ferishta, 1560–1620

        Comment


        • #5
          The sooner the Pakistanis become atheists the better. Then Pakistan would have no basis to exist as its only purpose was a homeland for muslims of south asia. Then Pashtuns would have no reason to remain part of Pakistan which they were tricked into in the first place :D

          Comment


          • #6
            The peopel are not becoming atheist, the becoming more distant from Islam, but I think they still belive in God but not in the way how Islam dicribes it.

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by badmash_khel View Post
              The sooner the Pakistanis become atheists the better. Then Pakistan would have no basis to exist as its only purpose was a homeland for muslims of south asia. Then Pashtuns would have no reason to remain part of Pakistan which they were tricked into in the first place :D
              these stupid pro seculars dont realize that pakistan would fall apart faster than a hollywood marriage when islamic rhetoric is no longer used as the glue that keeps pakistan together.

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by khushal View Post
                these stupid pro seculars dont realize that pakistan would fall apart faster than a hollywood marriage when islamic rhetoric is no longer used as the glue that keeps pakistan together.


                LOL I like this for the Hollywood Marriage analogy
                [QUOTE=Afghanistan2010;658085][B]He is no different [COLOR="Red"]than us[/COLOR][/B],[B]he[COLOR="Red"] blindly believes [/COLOR]in the words [COLOR="Red"]of other men[/COLOR][/B],:[/QUOTE]

                2010 Admitting he's a blind believer not in God, but what other men says.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by badmash_khel View Post
                  The sooner the Pakistanis become atheists the better. Then Pakistan would have no basis to exist as its only purpose was a homeland for muslims of south asia. Then Pashtuns would have no reason to remain part of Pakistan which they were tricked into in the first place :D
                  Is wishing the other country out of existing the only future for us? Some Pakistanis (though fewer than the Afghans) believe India should not exist and almost all Afghans seem to believe Pakistan should not exist.

                  Of course dreams rarely come true but the fact there are people having such dreams is perhaps proof of the fact that we aren't even close to a World where we can peacefully co-exist.

                  This is why we are in the condition we are in. How can you develop when your life purpose becomes the destruction of the other instead of the development and maturity of your own people? Its not just the Taliban following this ideology, its others too.

                  Originally posted by khushal View Post
                  these stupid pro seculars dont realize that pakistan would fall apart faster than a hollywood marriage when islamic rhetoric is no longer used as the glue that keeps pakistan together.
                  Of course I admit that the center has used Islamist policy as a glue to bond Pakistan together but there is absolutely no proof that it has worked.

                  I would have been happy with them using Islamist ideology if it had worked in uniting us. But sadly I see unity no where. In fact the very Islamist ideology that was supposed to unite and bond us has become the reason for our divisions. People within Pakistan today feel as you have said cheated by our imposing Islam on everyone.

                  In short that Islam hasn't really been the glue it was supposed to be. We were supposed to be one of the most united Nations ever formed with Islam bonding us.

                  How many people from our Pakhtunkhwa did we have defending Pakistan? Has Islam made them any more keen to defend their "Islamic Republic" when it is insulted daily on this forum? No.

                  What we need is Nationalism to glue us together instead like all other countries in the world.

                  P.S. I am not an atheist. Just pointing out that intolerance has only driven people away from Islam instead of bringing them closer.
                  I am the author of Badal, an upcoming fiction novel on the War on Terror. For more information about me visit [URL="http://www.havisultan.com"]www.havisultan.com[/URL]

                  Follow me on twitter:
                  [url]https://twitter.com/#!/HaviZSultan[/url]

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by haviZsultan View Post
                    Is wishing the other country out of existing the only future for us? Some Pakistanis (though fewer than the Afghans) believe India should not exist and almost all Afghans seem to believe Pakistan should not exist.

                    Of course dreams rarely come true but the fact there are people having such dreams is perhaps proof of the fact that we aren't even close to a World where we can peacefully co-exist.

                    This is why we are in the condition we are in. How can you develop when your life purpose becomes the destruction of the other instead of the development and maturity of your own people? Its not just the Taliban following this ideology, its others too.
                    That post wasn't serious. It was meant as a joke.

                    Anyways I assume that when you speak of "WE", you mean pashtuns.

                    Now as a proud Pashtun and Pakistani, what would you do if there was conflict of interest between Afghanistan (50% pashtuns) and Pakistan (50% punjabi and 15% pashtun)?

                    Don't reply with the usual that we are all muslims bhai bahi, In an ideal world there would be no conflict of interests and we would all get along but in the real world and due to unfortunate and un natural borders set up by colonial powers, there have been conflicts of interests between Afghanistan and Pakistan. The Durand Line is one of the main reasons why this bhai bhai dream has been shattered.

                    Don't you think that all pashtuns are better off in one nations state where they represent the majority? If pashtun dominated areas of Pakistan join Afghanistan then Afghanistan becomes 70%+ pashtun or an independent pashtunistan 90%+ pashtun.

                    Do you think in the long run pashtuns in Afghanistan and Pakistan can withstand the cultural onslaught of more advanced Urdu and Farsi? Both these languages have more resources and more speakers.

                    What do you think is the best way to safegaurd pashtun culture, language, heritage etc?

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      there were always athiests in pakistan, but they dont even make 2-3% of the population and are only restricted to the military or elite class

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by badmash_khel View Post
                        That post wasn't serious. It was meant as a joke.

                        Anyways I assume that when you speak of "WE", you mean pashtuns.

                        Now as a proud Pashtun and Pakistani, what would you do if there was conflict of interest between Afghanistan (50% pashtuns) and Pakistan (50% punjabi and 15% pashtun)?

                        Don't reply with the usual that we are all muslims bhai bahi, In an ideal world there would be no conflict of interests and we would all get along but in the real world and due to unfortunate and un natural borders set up by colonial powers, there have been conflicts of interests between Afghanistan and Pakistan. The Durand Line is one of the main reasons why this bhai bhai dream has been shattered.

                        Don't you think that all pashtuns are better off in one nations state where they represent the majority? If pashtun dominated areas of Pakistan join Afghanistan then Afghanistan becomes 70%+ pashtun or an independent pashtunistan 90%+ pashtun.

                        Do you think in the long run pashtuns in Afghanistan and Pakistan can withstand the cultural onslaught of more advanced Urdu and Farsi? Both these languages have more resources and more speakers.

                        What do you think is the best way to safegaurd pashtun culture, language, heritage etc?
                        In the whole contexts of things, pakistan can easily become in to three different countries, KP and Baluchistan can form one country, while Punjab/Sindh can form another and Dardic areas up north can become (Dardistan)

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by haviZsultan View Post


                          Of course I admit that the center has used Islamist policy as a glue to bond Pakistan together but there is absolutely no proof that it has worked.
                          I don't think he's suggesting that it has "worked" but rather it's really the only thing keeping pakistan together.
                          [QUOTE=Afghanistan2010;658085][B]He is no different [COLOR="Red"]than us[/COLOR][/B],[B]he[COLOR="Red"] blindly believes [/COLOR]in the words [COLOR="Red"]of other men[/COLOR][/B],:[/QUOTE]

                          2010 Admitting he's a blind believer not in God, but what other men says.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by abassinafghan View Post
                            @ badmashkehl

                            you know if there any pakistani interesst ,we are all muslims and all the same , that they wish to be mungal 2,0 and our "bigger " brothers , but as soon unconfortable issues come up , they change the modus and they talk about differences ....



                            right and who are not interessted ?? all the people who fear losses and this would be minorities who are dependend on foreign intervention not the average tajik , uzbek or any one else because the suffer from the same strangle ...

                            our problems root is this country of pakistan , there is a reason why , balochistan and pashtunistan were annceted !!!! the brits planed this long time ago and till today they are a problem ....

                            we can not prosper in any way if there is a ghandu nation , closing borders and blocking the roots as soon anything happend which they dont like ...

                            there is no muslim brotherhood or friendship as soon it comes to economical means ...... they are servants their fathers were servants , so they have to overcome this inferrior complex , by taking pride in making the poorest of the poor their own servants ...

                            and unfourtently there are enough poor , stupid , desperate or even ruthless people who are doing their dirty work in the name of islam , or in the name of cash , withe the best intentions ...

                            but how does they say ? the road to hell is made out of good intentions ,,,

                            Abbasin where are you from? Are you from Pakistan or Afghanistan? becuase to be honest most PAshtuns from Pakistan don't want to join Afghanistan, I am talking about pashtuns from Pakistan that I met in real life not some here on forums and the only ones who are talking about unification are the talib and wahabist suporters. They want to creat a taliban style hell on eath. But that kind of peopel I don't want and I bet majority of Paki-Pashtun neither. So if the majority don't want it what can we do? nothing so just live it.
                            Last edited by Khostai; 04-12-2012, 03:29 PM.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              ^ Ow the shadow bitch is back, and al-arab was talking how nice this tread was becuase nobody was insulting each other, but you, like a parasite that you are came here and spoild the tread, and by the way if you didn't care about my opnion why bother to respond?
                              Last edited by randolph85; 04-12-2012, 04:20 PM. Reason: easy big fella

                              Comment

                              Working...
                              X