Fatimah Vs. Abu Bakr

[Afghanistan2010]

You must be talking about this Abu Dawud Hadith:

Abu Dawood

Book 3, Number 0756:

Narrated Ali ibn AbuTalib:

Jarir ad-Dabbi reported: I saw Ali (Allah be pleased with him) catching hold of his left hand) by his right hand on the wrist above the navel.

Book 3, Number 0758:

Narrated Tawus:

The Apostle of Allah (peace_be_upon_him) used to place his right hand on his left hand, then he folded them strictly on his chest in prayer.

Notice yet another contradiction: the first one said place hands on Naval (belly-button), while the other said STRICTLY on his chest.

The Quran were recorded individually, but not an official copy until Abu Bakr agreed to start writing it down; shortly after the Battle of Yamamah, where alot of the Qurrah had Been martyred.

Contradiction exists within yourself,but yet it is that what the narrator mentioned and as you see there are two different narrators.

These are not contradiction because the person is free to place the hands from below the naval to up the chest,therefor women mostly place their hands on the chest and man in the area of the naval either above or below.

And all other hadiths about placing the hands are mentioned in Abu Dawud and others but not by Imam Bukhari in his Sahih.

Look how you turn hadiths into something that is a joke while they are proven to be from the noble companions (radiAllahu anhum) of the Messenger of Allah (pbuh).

It is mentioned the Messenger of Allah (pbuh) wore green Imamah (turban) and in anoter hadith it is mentioned he (pbuh) wore black imamah (turban)

contradiction ? hein ?.

[Afghanistan2010]

You must also belief in these hadiths, which happened to skip Bukhari and Muslim, but made it to Ibn Majah and Tirmidhi magically


Abu Umama narrated: "The Messenger of God said, 'Everyone that God admits into paradise will be married to 72 wives; two of them are houris and seventy of his inheritance of the [female] dwellers of hell. All of them will have libidinous sex organs and he will have an ever-erect penis.' "
Sunan Ibn Majah, Zuhd (Book of Abstinence) 39


It was mentioned by Daraj Ibn Abi Hatim, that Abu al-Haytham 'Adullah Ibn Wahb narrated from Abu Sa'id al-Khudhri, who heard the Prophet Muhammad PBUH saying, 'The smallest reward for the people of Heaven is an abode where there are eighty thousand servants and seventy-two houri, over which stands a dome decorated with pearls, aquamarine and ruby, as wide as the distance from al-Jabiyyah to San'a.
Al-Tirmidhi, Vol. 4, Ch. 21, No. 2687

There are more than enough Hadiths which never reached Bukhari and Muslim...so what are they all wrong.

[کیش]

I didn't say anything about the companions, I mentioned to hadiths, which one said hands STRICKLY on the chest. Your making it a joke by bringing turbans, which is a stylistic choice.

For your last post, I think it proofs that you should read the other collections with a grain of salt; definitely when it hasn't been mentioned in Bukhari and Muslim collections.

[Afghanistan2010]

It is clearly stated and mentioned in one of the letters of the Messenger of Allah about the touching of the Quran and all muslims agree upon this hadith it is as here :

Book 15, Number 15.1.1: Yahya related to me from Malik from
Abdullah ibn Abi Bakr ibn Hazm that in a letter that the
Messenger of Allah, may Allah bless him and grant him peace,
sent to Amr ibn Hazm it said that no−one should touch the
Qur'an unless he was pure. Malik said, "No−one should carry
the Qur'an by its strap, or on a cushion, unless he is pure.
If it were permissible to do so, it would also have been
permissible to carry it in its cover. This is not because
there is something on the hands of the one who carries it by
which the Qur'an will be soiled, but because it is disapproved
of for someone to carry the Qur'an without being pure out of
respect for the Qur'an, and in order to honour it." Malik
said, "The best thing that I have heard about this is the ayat
'None touch it except the purified.' (Sura 56 ayat 79) It
ranks with the ayat in Surat Abasa (Sura 80), where Allah, the
Blessed and Exalted, says, 'No, it is a reminder, and whoever
wishes will remember it. Upon honoured pages, exalted and

purified, by the hands of scribes, noble and obedient.' "

[RevolutionThroughReason]

I think many Muslims, and I say this about myself as well as others often fail to acknowledge these people were humans, with the sensitivities and vullnerabilities with as other humans, and instead of trying to rely on a bunch of "after the fact" apologetic to smooth over history, just acknowledge that people made mistakes, often terrible ones as we have seen here. The standard Sunni and Shi'ah narrative is too mired with idealism than reality.

[Breshna]

How about..the title having...some respect...in it.

You wrote...the names...like they...

were some...average people.

[Afghanistan2010]

I found your answer :


First narration (4449): Shaykh Albani says "Sahih" in Sahih ibn Majah. Is also reported in Musnad of Imam Ahmad and Tirmidhi but this hadith was regarded as daif (weak) by the vast majority of the scholars and it contains a weak narrator named Amro bin abi Amro.


Second narration (4450): Classed as "Hasan" by Albani in Sahih Abi Dawood. Also reported in Tirmidhi.

Abu Dawood (may Allah be pleased him) said relating to the first narration that "it is not strong" and then after quoting the second hadith (4450) says "this narration also proves the weakness of the previous narration".

As for the Fiqh of the ahadeeth then,

Ibn Hajar (may Allah be pleased with him) says that narration (4449) has a defect in it's chain and the second narration in Abu Dawood (4450) is more correct. (Talkhis al-habeer)

Regarding the punishment of such as person:

Hasan Basri said that such a person is the same as one who commits Zina.

Imam Abu Yusuf said that such a person should be punished the same as a person who commits Zina.

Imams Abu Hanifa, Malik and Ahmad said that such a person should be given a discretionary punished and this is the more sound opinion as killing him is not proven.

Ibn Hajar also states this (Talkhis al-Habeer)

As for the animal then,

Imam's Abu Yusuf and Abu Hanifa state that the meat of such an animal should not be eaten.

In another hadith the prophet (pbuh) has said that to slaughter an animal is not premissible lest you do it to eat it. (Talkhis, Muwatta, Abu Dawood in Maraseel).

So this further proves that to kill the animal is not correct.

(Taken and Interpreted from Fiqh ul Hadith - Sharh Al-Durar al-Baheya, P.617/618, Urdu)

And Allah knows best

[کیش]

So Abu Dawud 4450 is a strong narration, from the opinion of your sources?

This one to make it clearer is considered more stronger than 4450?



Abu Dawud 38:4450

Narrated Abdullah ibn Abbas: There is no prescribed punishment for one who has sexual intercourse with an animal.

Weak Hadith in your sources?:

Abu Dawud - 33) Prescribed Punishments Hadith 4449
Narrated Abdullah ibn Abbas:

The Prophet said: If anyone has sexual intercourse with an animal, kill him and kill it along with him. I (Ikrimah) said: I asked him (Ibn Abbas): What offence can be attributed to the animal/ He replied: I think he (the Prophet) disapproved of its flesh being eaten when such a thing had been done to it.

[کیش]

How about..the title having...some respect...in it.

You wrote...the names...like they...

were some...average people.

Do..you..know..your history?

If...you...did..

Then you would know that Fatima was extremely mad at Abu Bakr for not giving away the Propheta(PBUH) inheritance to her. She didn't speak to him, till she passed away some six months later.

This then caused a drift creating two unislamic sects called Sunni and Shia. Which created sects within the sects.

[Afghanistan2010]

So Abu Dawud 4450 is a strong narration, from the opinion of your sources?

This one to make it clearer is considered more stronger than 4450?



Abu Dawud 38:4450

Narrated Abdullah ibn Abbas: There is no prescribed punishment for one who has sexual intercourse with an animal.

Weak Hadith in your sources?:

Abu Dawud - 33) Prescribed Punishments Hadith 4449
Narrated Abdullah ibn Abbas:

The Prophet said: If anyone has sexual intercourse with an animal, kill him and kill it along with him. I (Ikrimah) said: I asked him (Ibn Abbas): What offence can be attributed to the animal/ He replied: I think he (the Prophet) disapproved of its flesh being eaten when such a thing had been done to it.

Not I,the scholars of Hadith has declared this.
And yes the first one is weak and some transmitters unknown.

And 4450 is sahih.

And when i was reading all the time 4449 reminded me of 4447


Book 38, Number 4447:

Narrated Abdullah ibn Abbas:
The Prophet (peace_be_upon_him) said: If you find anyone doing as Lot's people did, kill the one who does it, and the one to whom it is done.

It is possible that the narrators mixed there something with this statement.

[Afghanistan2010]

Do..you..know..your history?

If...you...did..

Then you would know that Fatima was extremely mad at Abu Bakr for not giving away the Propheta(PBUH) inheritance to her. She didn't speak to him, till she passed away some six months later.

This then caused a drift creating two unislamic sects called Sunni and Shia. Which created sects within the sects.

Sunni are not a sect,but shia who said they are the party of Ali ibn abi Talib (rad),the rest of the muslims remained on what was revealed to them.

Sheikh Muhammad Al Arifi answer to the shia people Al Mustakilah tv - YouTube

Indeed disbelieved in what was revealed to the muslims and disbelieved in the Sahaba ikram (rad) and said that the Quran is corrupt.

[کیش]

Not I,the scholars of Hadith has declared this.
And yes the first one is weak and some transmitters unknown.

And 4450 is sahih.

And when i was reading all the time 4449 reminded me of 4447


Book 38, Number 4447:

Narrated Abdullah ibn Abbas:
The Prophet (peace_be_upon_him) said: If you find anyone doing as Lot's people did, kill the one who does it, and the one to whom it is done.

It is possible that the narrators mixed there something with this statement.

So you agree with the "scholars" of Hadith and call the Hadith a "Sahih" when that Hadith says it's perfectly fine for a human to have sexual intercourse with an animal?

Again this

Abu Dawud 38:4450

Narrated Abdullah ibn Abbas: There is no prescribed punishment for one who has sexual intercourse with an animal.


But 4449 is daif, when it outlaws such practice? I think your a blind follower to "scholars"

[Breshna]

Do..you..know..your history?

If...you...did..

Then you would know that Fatima was extremely mad at Abu Bakr for not giving away the Propheta(PBUH) inheritance to her. She didn't speak to him, till she passed away some six months later.

This then caused a drift creating two unislamic sects called Sunni and Shia. Which created sects within the sects.

Unlike...you...i have too much...Respect,

for...both mentioned...in the title.

They...weren't normal...people

...like me and..you!!

I would...never put such...a

disrespectful...title.

Do you...call your..Elders...

by their...names?

[کیش]

^^^

Another...blind..follower...

Abu Bakr and Fatimah were not humans? They didn't eat, sleep, die like me and you? Where they Prophets?


Your committing blashphemy like Shias: when they raise Ali and his sons in a high matter.

Do you worship your elders and ancestors like the Chinese?

[Al Hanif]

Do you worship your elders and ancestors like the Chinese?

I never heard of that before... can you explain ?