Apostasy and its Punishment(New)

[MazloomyarMaseed]

I know I am thankful every day that I have the freedoms I do, and can be free from fear of persecution over my human rights.

Ozzy boy, you speak of freedoms but do you accept America has went against the basic freedoms of nations its overthrown and invaded?

Do you think those freedoms will last, did those freedoms last during the New Orleans incident? What if turmoil comes to America economically, Will those Freedoms Last or prevail?

[ozymandias]

What if they 'bad mouth' Islam by pointing out 100% *true* facts, like the murder of people that leave the faith? Do you advocate killing people for being honest, even if it shows the dark side of Islam?

Ozzy boy, you speak of freedoms but do you accept America has went against the basic freedoms of nations its overthrown and invaded?

You are aware that occasionally some people's rights will need to be infringed to protect the rights of the rest, right?

Do you think those freedoms will last, did those freedoms last during the New Orleans incident?

New Orleans is not representative. They survived 9-11, and the survived the flooding of the Midwest -- which was a far larger national disaster.

What if turmoil comes to America economically, Will those Freedoms Last or prevail?

I believe they will prevail. They may stumble a time or two, but enough people believe in them that it is hard for them to fall.

[MazloomyarMaseed]

What if they 'bad mouth' Islam by pointing out 100% *true* facts, like the murder of people that leave the faith? Do you advocate killing people for being honest, even if it shows the dark side of Islam?



You are aware that occasionally some people's rights will need to be infringed to protect the rights of the rest, right?



New Orleans is not representative. They survived 9-11, and the survived the flooding of the Midwest -- which was a far larger national disaster.



I believe they will prevail. They may stumble a time or two, but enough people believe in them that it is hard for them to fall.

This is what i dont get about you, You speak of freedoms but in my eyes, you seem to be speak soley about your own Americans freedom.

The New Orleans incident showed Americans weakness.

In other words, you clearly stated that you support the invasion of other countries as long as your own Americans are free, even though you rob those you invade for their resouces and so on.

I find it very selfish of yourself, and your true motive is shown. Not everything is America, We will see the success of America in the next few years or even decade, but those days are gone, where people beleive America was something Special.

Kind Regards.

[ozymandias]

Still waiting for an answer:
What if they 'bad mouth' Islam by pointing out 100% *true* facts, like the murder of people that leave the faith? Do you advocate killing people for being honest, even if it shows the dark side of Islam?

This is what i dont get about you, You speak of freedoms but in my eyes, you seem to be speak soley about your own Americans freedom.

Nope -- America just 'happens' to have rights and freedoms that line up with the UN declaration.

The New Orleans incident showed Americans weakness.

Some Americans. Not all. Just like terrorist acts show the weaknesses of *some* Muslims -- but not all.

In other words, you clearly stated that you support the invasion of other countries as long as your own Americans are free, even though you rob those you invade for their resouces and so on.

If you think that, you clearly did not read what I said. The 'invasions' protect the rights off all people, all nationalities, at the cost of a few people trying to repress the rights of others, as well as some innocent by-standers. It's terrible that innocents lose some of their rights temporarily, or even die, but if the country can be liberated and allowed open education, democratic processes, and the ability to exercise rights they were forbidden before, there may be justification.

I find it very selfish of yourself, and your true motive is shown. Not everything is America,

Right -- not everything is America -- so why are you pretending that I am only talking about America benefiting? I am speaking globally, and you are focusing on one country.

We will see the success of America in the next few years or even decade, but those days are gone, where people beleive America was something Special.

Kind Regards.

Let's stay on track, though. If you want to discuss the concept of 'a few paying the price for the many', start a new thread. In this thread, let's discuss murdering people for leaving a religion.

[ozymandias]

Ozymandias wrora,You cant badmouth Islam by stating facts, there is nothing "bad" about it. Its only bad when you take it out of context

So, in your opinion, the people should not be executed as long as they speak the truth -- even if that truth 'damages' Islam, and drives people away?

Follow up question: What context makes the murder of a person for leaving a religion 'good' -- or at least 'not bad'? I can honestly think of no context that will take this discussion of religiously condoned murder and makes it palatable or acceptable.

[ozymandias]

^When they cause harm to Ummah.

Sorry -- but it is possible to 'harm' Islam by merely speaking the truth, and 'religion' has no rights or protections as a community. If a person wishes to speak their opinion *or* spread facts about a religion, they have that right.

The context you propose makes it *worse*, not *better*.

[MeemWawMeemNoon]

The ummah has been hurt by Muslims themselves. It is a blessing from Allah that those who have found flaws with "interpretations," yes interpretations, are speaking out. They should not be killed. They are killed because they are questioning the logic of the so-called "scholars." These "scholars" are politically motivated because they know where their funding exists.

When these people who question Islam leave it is because they are forced to accept a certain type of Islam, they are told that that is Islam no ifs or buts about it. They are not leaving Islam because just for the sake of wanting to leaving. If that is the case, it is still fine. We Muslims should understand that according to the Holy Quran Christians and Jews will exist until the end of days. Using this Quranic logic, that means that all sorts of religions will exist until the end of times.

That is why they should not be killed, because if they ever get the chance to come across someone who can interpret Islam in a way that caters to them then they will come back.

That said, the best way is to study Islam for yourself and read and read and read. You have to follow an interpretation of Islam today that is the closest to what our beloved Imam Hadhrat MUhammad (saw) brought. Not what you want. Period. However, if "real" Islam does not make sense to, it is still fine. Why? Because our Creator has said that it is He who guides. PERIOD.

So, if someone leaves because they are forced to wear the hijab, for example, then I don't blame them. There is no compulsion in religion. However, if this person ever comes across someone who can explain to them why it is necessary to wear the hijab they should use the same reasoning when they left Islam, and come back.. Prior they said it did not make sense and it was forced. Now they should say it makes sense and I am not forced.

Nonetheless, if someone leaves Islam and bad mouths Islam because of an 'interpretation' they were exposed to, then Allah is All Merficul and Forgiving. It is up to Him to Judge at the end.

He has not given us the right to kill His creation. He has given His creation freedom of choice. He has allowed His creation to exercise that freedom of choice. Only He can judge them as to whether they were abusing it or not. Not us.