Split Topic: Apostasy and its Punishment

[MeemWawMeemNoon]

Very sad to read this. It's really embarrassing and sad to see a Muslim who claims to be a momen calls another Muslim brother a Murtad.

Have you not studied the Hadiths/Aayas regarding calling another Muslim a murtad or Kaafir?

To everyone;

If we dislike someone's point of view we don't have to be personal and call eachother names. I mean seriously calling eachother names isn't a Muslim's trait.

I dislike a brother's point of view on a particular topic and if I see him riding high on his ideology I would just part my way than throwing cheap shots and name-calling.

I am aware of what I am doing. I am doing it on purpose. This Murtad Mullah Sangar is claiming that those who leave Islam should be killed.

He, by his own admission, left Islam, and he says that he should not have been killed. Yet, he claims that everyone else who leaves should be killed. We are telling him that no one should be killed. Period.

Just as he has now accepted Islam because he was spared. Someone else might also be accept Islam if he or she is spared.

Until, he changes his view I will continue to call him Murtad Mullah Sangar. Or, if announces that he should be killed. Up to him to choose what he wants.

[MazloomyarMaseed]

They have mixed ones Faith with Politics, this is why they are like this. Like for example, Quran states to forgive, as Allah knows best, Quran also says, that do not compell, yet on the other hand, the opposition here, invent their own interpratations of the Quran,by saying you must conquer the whole world by force and force those non muslims to be Muslims by the Sword or gun, then on the other hand, you have those who preach to kill those who leave Islam, forgetting basic tenets such as reducation, work to convince those to return by love and peace and understanding, not killing them, it will do nothing, it all comes down to Politics, Ive met one of two Pashtuns who basically dont practice Islam any more, on the grounds, that they seen what Taliban are and they think all Muslims are like them and its put fear into their hearts, they were never sinful people yet they left practicing Islam on those grounds.

Peace is the best way to Spread Islam, using force,weapons and war, will only result in rebellion and hatred.

Kind Regards

[Khan]

I am aware of what I am doing. I am doing it on purpose. This Murtad Mullah Sangar is claiming that those who leave Islam should be killed.

He, by his own admission, left Islam, and he says that he should not have been killed. Yet, he claims that everyone else who leaves should be killed. We are telling him that no one should be killed. Period.

Just as he has now accepted Islam because he was spared. Someone else might also be accept Islam if he or she is spared.

Until, he changes his view I will continue to call him Murtad Mullah Sangar. Or, if announces that he should be killed. Up to him to choose what he wants.

May Allah (SWT) guide you on the right path.

I rest my case.

[MeemWawMeemNoon]

Note: I remind you, not as a moderator, but rather from the perspective of the basic relationship we share with others, the relationship of insaaniyat. Keep to it, and remember the right of others as Rasulullah SAW says every individual is entitled to many things which include the basic right of honour, freedom of expression or even defending themselves, and these are not limited to the individual, rather, as humans, we should respect that right of others and give it to them. There is much that needs to be changed in this thread, and I must admit, most of what is coming out was not what I expected from some members. The thread was split, and, over and over, more and more, I am noticing each post is more anger-filled than the previous. Names and accusations are not encouraged. Please refrain from it. Please consider this, for yourselves.

Your concerns are valid.

However, this man is preaching that this is Islam. Hence, this is how he would treat someone else.

I am purposefully doing this. I am fully aware.

I am doing this to show others that this man is dangerous. He is preaching something so dangerous that people should be killed for leaving Islam; and even he, who has left Islam, can't accept to be killed.

It is all about showing the face and attitudes of hypocrites. If we stay docile, people like Murtad Mullah Sangar will pollute Islam. In fact, because Pashtun are docile at heart, these people have taken over.

[MeemWawMeemNoon]

May Allah (SWT) guide you on the right path.

I rest my case.

Do you believe that murtadeen should be killed?

[Azmatullah]

MODERATOR NOTE:

All irrelevant comments will be deleted. Please refrain from getting personal with each other and from posting anything that has nothing to do with this topic. Thank you.

Note: I remind you, not as a moderator, but rather from the perspective of the basic relationship we share with others, the relationship of insaaniyat. Keep to it, and remember the right of others as Rasulullah SAW says every individual is entitled to many things which include the basic right of honour, freedom of expression or even defending themselves, and these are not limited to the individual, rather, as humans, we should respect that right of others and give it to them. There is much that needs to be changed in this thread, and I must admit, most of what is coming out was not what I expected from some members. The thread was split, and, over and over, more and more, I am noticing each post is more anger-filled than the previous. Names and accusations are not encouraged. Please refrain from it. Please consider this, for yourselves.

So much for all these Moderator's notes, yet no action is being taken. Even when someone is purposely provoking others by resorting to name-calling.

[Admin Khan]

Guys, from this point on I want this name-calling to stop, please. Lets please refrain from throwing insults under disguise, we are all grown and mature here. We should not have to constantly remind our beloved members on how to act. I am pretty confident that our literacy rate here is pretty high.

I appreciate it, Manana.

[MeemWawMeemNoon]

So much for all these Moderator's notes, yet no action is being taken. Even when someone is purposely provoking others by resorting to name-calling.

This is his belief. We are not provoking him.

You are defending him because you feel that we are resorting to name calling? Well, I have news for you my friend. Sangar would have killed someone who had left Islam.

Consider this as a favour upon him that we are trying to teach him how absurd his beliefs are.

[*Mahzala*]

Azmatullah: You need to understand that it is our duty to simply remind you. We do not resort to deletion, infractions or locking at the first instance. There are certain things members should adhere to, the forum rules, and certain measures we take to respond to your activity. Time and time again members assume nothing is being done. That is not the case. Things are being done, however, if they are not done in your presence, it doesn't conclude that it is not being done. On a end note, this is the final reminder, and deliberate posts to incite other members by attacking them is not tolerated.

[MeemWawMeemNoon]

Amazing, Azmatullah, is defending his friend and he is hurt by the fact that he is being attacked.

Imagine when someone being killed by Sangar for leaving Islam. Imagine how hurtful it is on his family.

Where is Sangar? Why is he not coming here to give us a ruling on how we should deal with him?

[Badlun]

I always try my level best to refrain from becoming personal with any member here and I try that all my posts are in general tone as we all come here to learn and share. This is the only particular case where it seems that the tone is directed towards one member.

Actually the case was so blatant and so clear and so paradoxical that one cant control but to express in a personal tone.

Sangar is our Pashtun and Muslim friend. He is welcomed once again in the fold of Islam. We at least dont believe in killing apostates in any case.

He may have some introspection, some meditation and may reach to the conclusion that this killing game, this labelling game of calling innocent people mushriks, mulhids, murtads, infidel, kaffir, may be stopped and the golden rule as explained by Momin that if some one calls himself Muslim and if he or she declares kalma taiyyba then whether he is wahabi or shia, or qadyani, or ahmadi, or brelvi, or deobandi, or muqalid or ghair muqalid, etc etc all are Muslims. Not that only ahlul sunna wal jumma or wahabis or ahle hadith are muslims or better muslims and others not.

Lets increase the number of Muslims not decrease it by calling others non muslims or mushriks and by killing apostates. Lets present Islam as a religion of peace not of terror, wars and violence

[Azmatullah]

Meem. It is funny, how you calling someone else ''shameless'' when your own behaviour is exactly that. You have given yourself the name ''Mu'min'' which is probably why you are qualified to have a ''holier than thou'' attitude towards everyone else.

I suggest you start acting your age. If this is the way you are going to interact with people, you are best ignored.

[شمله ور خراساني]

I always try my level best to refrain from becoming personal with any member here and I try that all my posts are in general tone as we all come here to learn and share. This is the only particular case where it seems that the tone is directed towards one member.

Actually the case was so blatant and so clear and so paradoxical that one cant control but to express in a personal tone.

Sangar is our Pashtun and Muslim friend. He is welcomed once again in the fold of Islam. We at least dont believe in kilkling apostates in any case.

He may have some introspection, some meditation and may reach to the conclusion that this killing game, this labelling game of calling innocent people mushriks, mulhids, murtads, infidel, kaffir, may be stopped and the goilden rule as explained by Momin that if some one calls himself Muslim and if he or she declares kalma taiyyba then whether he is wahabi or shia, or qadyabi, or ahmadi, or brelvi, or deobandi, or muqalid or ghair muqalid, etc etc all are Muslims. Not that only ahlul sunna wal jumma or wahabis or ahle hadith are muslims or better muslims and others not.

Lets increase the number of Muslims not decrease it by callin others non muslims or mushriks and by killing apostates. Lets present Islam as a religion of peace not of terror, wars and violence

Saying that I was agnostic in the past due to my lack of knowledge of Islam is something different than promoting shirk by making threads about astrology or rejecting the Shari'ah.

So don't try to compare the two different things. It's obvious that you and your buddies are desperately twisting things around because you are left with no other option to defend your heretic posts on Pashtun forums which reveals your lack of imaan. And the blatant slandering and childish posts that have been going on for over 10 pages in this thread is a display of you and your buddies weaknesses.

I've collected my rewards from your slanders. The more you guys slander me, the more reward I get from Allah for falling victim of vicious attacks.

[DaNangarharZuwan]

What is the Quran view on Apostasy?

[MeemWawMeemNoon]

I always try my level best to refrain from becoming personal with any member here and I try that all my posts are in general tone as we all come here to learn and share. This is the only particular case where it seems that the tone is directed towards one member.

Actually the case was so blatant and so clear and so paradoxical that one cant control but to express in a personal tone.

Sangar is our Pashtun and Muslim friend. He is welcomed once again in the fold of Islam. We at least dont believe in kilkling apostates in any case.

He may have some introspection, some meditation and may reach to the conclusion that this killing game, this labelling game of calling innocent people mushriks, mulhids, murtads, infidel, kaffir, may be stopped and the goilden rule as explained by Momin that if some one calls himself Muslim and if he or she declares kalma taiyyba then whether he is wahabi or shia, or qadyabi, or ahmadi, or brelvi, or deobandi, or muqalid or ghair muqalid, etc etc all are Muslims. Not that only ahlul sunna wal jumma or wahabis or ahle hadith are muslims or better muslims and others not.

Lets increase the number of Muslims not decrease it by callin others non muslims or mushriks and by killing apostates. Lets present Islam as a religion of peace not of terror, wars and violence

God is my witness that I am doing all this to show Sangar that he is treading on a path that is not accepted in the eyes of Allah. If he can't declare the law of apostasy on himself, then he should refrain from ever bringing it up.

It is clear how absurd and stupid this law is.

We have been trying to tell this to Sangar, however he would not budge.

Allah made an opening. By his own admission he admitted to having left Islam at one point. Allah made this opening. We are using it now to show him. If all other means failed, hopefully this one won't.

I pray that Sangar comes on the path that our beloved Muhammad (saw) followed. I hope he starts realizing that his Islam and the Islam that Hadhrat Muhammad followed are two different paths.