Split Topic: Apostasy and its Punishment

[Muslimah]

Sangar has nothing to say about it after what he said.

There is no proof coming out of anyone to back up what they said...so I guess we are right....

Now back to my topic! :P

Islam does not promote killing those who leave Islam...right? WE WIN

[MeemWawMeemNoon]

You have deliberately ignored the Mods warning, and have thrown yet more personal attacks at Sangar. He has himself said he is a Muslim.

Do you have a problem with understanding that? Are you too arrogant to accept that he is a Muslim?

I am not throwing personal attacks. Not at all. Why would you say such a thing?

I am going as per his own definition.

[Mutakhasis]

You are such an intelligent person Momin by God I could not think of this aspect of the post of Sangar

Where are Azmatullah, Abubakar, Mukhasis and others brothers to perform their religious duty to kill the murtad, the apostate Sangar. We wont because we dont believe that an apostate may be killed............we welcome him once again in the fold of Islam.

And sangar PF is not only a religious site. religion is only one section out of many so dont advise people to leave this site and they waste their time. Really even in religion what Im learn here I did not learn any where. Friends like Momin has a kot to offer here. We need people here on Pashtunforums to reject the extremmist Islam like yours as Pashtuns are the worst sufferers of the radicalism and extremism.

And I am sorry of this digression but will request Sangar to refute the verses given by Muslimah above on the peaceful side of Islam.

If it's our religious duty, that means you are free from the religion correct? Is this a self confession Mr. Astrology?

And I actually don't agree with killing apostates immediately, although for the sake of not disagreeing with my Muslim brothers (not you or meow), I didn't get into the discussion

Poor thing, one lies on the prophet [sas] and the other lies on pf members

[Azmatullah]

za peera noor ba na waym bakhana ghwarham kho sangar wror tsah na wayee cherta wrak na dey hasey na che cherta teera toora gori hhaaaaaawarta waya dasey ma kawa zamong der khog wror dey

I am worried sangar is not participating here he being pashtun and such a stromng muslim may not really do what he should do ,,,,,please advise him that he not kill himself,,,,,,really now i am seriously wrrried about him plz tell him to say at least a hi here

sorry for this last digression,,,,,,,,,If this sangar apostacy issue is to be continued then we may open a separate topic

Da lewano ghonde khabare makawa.

Not everyone is available to give you a rapid response 24/7. Believe or not, people have other things going on in their lives.

[MeemWawMeemNoon]

If it's our religious duty, that means you are free from the religion correct? Is this a self confession Mr. Astrology?

And I actually don't agree with killing apostates immediately, although for the sake of not disagreeing with my Muslim brothers (not you or meow), I didn't get into the discussion

Poor thing, one lies on the prophet [sas] and the other lies on pf members

Oh the hypocrisy in you people.

Well, it is good to know that when push comes to shove your own "interpretation" of Islam does not apply to your ownselves.

[Muslimah]

Or is it
Islam says you should NOT kill those who leave Islam when they aren't your friend?
I am not sure.

I need clarification on this....

[Muslimah]

Oh the hypocrisy in you people.

Well, it is good to know that when push comes to shove your own "interpretation" of Islam does not apply to your ownselves.

You made another funny!

[Mutakhasis]

Oh the hypocrisy in you people.

Well, it is good to know that when push comes to shove your own "interpretation" of Islam does not apply to your ownselves.

Firstly kaka, you have already proven to be lacking knowledge when it comes to Qur'an, the self righteous attitude is only shooting you in the foot

Try taking a seat before you take a stand

Don't end up breaking your back with all the sins you're accumulating through your comedy and slanderous crusade

[MeemWawMeemNoon]

Firstly kaka, you have already proven to be lacking knowledge when it comes to Qur'an, the self righteous attitude is only shooting you in the foot

Try taking a seat before you take a stand

Don't end up breaking your back with all the sins you're accumulating through your comedy and slanderous crusade

Please tell me where I have done such a thing.

[Mutakhasis]

Please tell me where I have done such a thing.

Forgetful kaka aren't you? Let's look at your very first blunder that brought out your exposition

Do you still believe loving your homeland is part of Imaan?

[MeemWawMeemNoon]

Forgetful kaka aren't you? Let's look at your very first blunder that brought out your exposition

Do you still believe loving your homeland is part of Imaan?

Yes, we should not. Whatever you say.

[Roshina]

I find it QUITE interesting that when Sangar himself openly admins that he left Islam, those who support the punishment of apostasy as being death are actually not being honest enough to say that he should have been killed since he left Islam.

I know this point has been made before, but I just had to say it a gain. It is, indeed, very interesting!

Why the hypocrisy, folks?

[Roshina]

MODERATOR NOTE:

All irrelevant comments will be deleted. Please refrain from getting personal with each other and from posting anything that has nothing to do with this topic. Thank you.

[Maiwand]

Question: Some friends say that whoever does not enter Islam, that is his choice and he should not be forced to become Muslim, quoting as evidence the verses in which Allaah says (interpretation of the meaning):
“And had your Lord willed, those on earth would have believed, all of them together. So, will you (O Muhammad) then compel mankind, until they become believers”
[Yoonus 10:99]
“There is no compulsion in religion”
[al-Baqarah 2:256]
What is your opinion concerning that?
Answer: Praise be to Allaah.
The scholars explained that these two verses, and other similar verses, have to do with those from whom the jizyah may be taken, such as Jews, Christians and Magians (Zoroastrians). They are not to be forced, rather they are to be given the choice between becoming Muslim or paying the jizyah.
Other scholars said that this applied in the beginning, but was subsequently abrogated by Allaah’s command to fight and wage jihad. So whoever refuses to enter Islam should be fought when the Muslims are able to fight, until they either enter Islam or pay the jizyah if they are among the people who may pay jizyah. The kuffaar should be compelled to enter Islam if they are not people from whom the jizyah may be taken, because that will lead to their happiness and salvation in this world and in the Hereafter. Obliging a person to adhere to the truth in which is guidance and happiness is better for him than falsehood. Just as a person may be forced to do the duty that he owes to other people even if that is by means of imprisonment or beating, so forcing the kaafirs to believe in Allaah alone and enter into the religion of Islam is more important and more essential, because this will lead to their happiness in this world and in the Hereafter. This applies unless they are People of the Book, i.e., Jews and Christians, or Magians, because Islam says that these three groups may be given the choice: they may enter Islam or they may pay the jizyah and feel themselves subdued.
Some of the scholars are of the view that others may also be given the choice between Islam and jizyah, but the most correct view is that no others should be given this choice, rather these three groups are the only ones who may be given the choice, because the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) fought the kuffaar in the Arabian Peninsula and he only accepted their becoming Muslim. And Allaah says (interpretation of the meaning):
“But if they repent [by rejecting Shirk (polytheism) and accept Islamic Monotheism] and perform As-Salaah (Iqaamat-as-Salaah), and give Zakaah, then leave their way free. Verily, Allaah is Oft-Forgiving, Most Merciful”
[al-Tawbah 9:5]

He did not say, “if they pay the jizyah”. The Jews, Christians and Magians are to be asked to enter Islam; if they refuse then they should be asked to pay the jizyah. If they refuse to pay the jizyah then the Muslims must fight them if they are able to do so. Allaah says (interpretation of the meaning):

“Fight against those who (1) believe not in Allaah, (2) nor in the Last Day, (3) nor forbid that which has been forbidden by Allaah and His Messenger (Muhammad), (4) and those who acknowledge not the religion of truth (i.e. Islam) among the people of the Scripture (Jews and Christians), until they pay the Jizyah with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued”
[al-Tawbah 9:29]
And it was proven that the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) accepted the jizyah from the Magians, but it was not proven that the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) or his companions (may Allaah be pleased with them) accepted the jizyah from anyone except the three groups mentioned above.
The basic principle concerning that is the words of Allaah (interpretation of the meaning):
“And fight them until there is no more Fitnah (disbelief and polytheism, i.e. worshipping others besides Allaah), and the religion (worship) will all be for Allaah Alone [in the whole of the world]”
[al-Anfaal 8:39]
“Then when the Sacred Months (the 1st, 7th, 11th, and 12th months of the Islamic calendar) have passed, then kill the Mushrikoon (see V.2:105) wherever you find them, and capture them and besiege them, and lie in wait for them in each and every ambush. But if they repent [by rejecting Shirk (polytheism) and accept Islamic Monotheism] and perform As-Salaah (Iqaamat-as-Salaah), and give Zakaah, then leave their way free. Verily, Allaah is Oft-Forgiving, Most Merciful”
[al-Tawbah 9:5]

This verse is known as Ayat al-Sayf (the verse of the sword).

These and similar verses abrogate the verses which say that there is no compulsion to become Muslim.
And Allaah is the Source of strength.
[Majmoo’ Fataawa wa Maqaalaat li’l-Shaykh Ibn Baaz, 6/219]

[Maiwand]

I find it QUITE interesting that when Sangar himself openly admins that he left Islam, those who support the punishment of apostasy as being death are actually not being honest enough to say that he should have been killed since he left Islam.

I know this point has been made before, but I just had to say it a gain. It is, indeed, very interesting!

Why the hypocrisy, folks?

Not all apostates should be killed, only those who openly propagate their disbelief and encourage others to their side. If someone becomes an apostate quietly and harms no muslim, either through his mouth or hands, then only God can judge him and punnish him, but if he confesses openly to being an apostate and propagates his way of life, then he must be killed after a trial with witnesses in a real Islamic state, so the implementation of the punnishment is not for individuals to be carried out, but for the Islamic state with a Shariah and good functioning coarts.