Justification and conditions regarding suicide missions

[badmash_khel]

What is the justification for it and what are the conditions? I am asking from those who support it or deem it lawful.

Please don't turn this into another personal attacks thread or secular vs religious. Stay on topic.

[IamDZJ]

i suppose you have to be super lazy. i m sure there is a way to placing a bomb somewhere and then blowing it from a distance.

[ozymandias]

Lawful in the eyes of legal systems, or lawful in the eyes of Islam?

[Alchemist]

Lawful in the eyes of legal systems, or lawful in the eyes of Islam?

What's the difference?

You are trying to insinuate that Islam does not have a judicial basis?

Enough with your prejudicial trolling old fart. Just leave the forum or I ll psychologically break you down.

[ozymandias]

What's the difference?

One is a purely religious discussion, and I have very little to add, but would be very interested to watch. The other is a legal/ethical discussion that I would enjoy participating in.

You are trying to insinuate that Islam does not have a judicial basis?

I am painfully aware that Islam has been used as a legal system in various times and places.

Enough with your prejudicial trolling old fart. Just leave the forum or I ll psychologically break you down.

Good luck with that. I'm an adult -- being called names and lied to does not bother me.

[Alchemist]

One is a purely religious discussion, and I have very little to add, but would be very interested to watch. The other is a legal/ethical discussion that I would enjoy participating in.

You have little to add?
Buddy...haven't you realized that 90% of your posts have been in the religious forum? You have had SO much to add and you are being so humble? Really? So cute.


So basically "religious" is not "ethical". Is that what we call a false dichotomy?
Try explaining how it is not false.

I am painfully aware that Islam has been used as a legal system in various times and places.

has been used as a legal system?

Are you really educated or is it just your alter ego that has been? Because your ignorance is astounding, to say the least.

Islam is a legal system. This might be a difficult concept for a conformist, identityless, brainwashed drone like you to comprehend but Islam is based on the word of God. And the word of God is the law.

As a matter of fact, much of the wests secular law system is derived from Divine Scripture.

Good luck with that. I'm an adult -- being called names and lied to does not bother me.

But getting exposed for your lies and your shortcomings should bother you.

Continue and I' ll show you how

[ozymandias]

You have little to add?

Indeed. I don't have much to add on Islam's stance on suicide bombings. I do not know the Koran well enough to make statements definitively on it's stance.

Buddy...haven't you realized that 90% of your posts have been in the religious forum?

This is by design. If you would actually read what I posted, you would see that I am very interested in comparing religious views with non-religious views.

You have had SO much to add and you are being so humble? Really? So cute.

You appear to be confused. This particular question is potentially about one religion's stance on a topic -- a particular topic I am not as educated about. While I am good with science and logic, I am weaker on Islamic teachings.

So basically "religious" is not "ethical".

Not necessarily. There are many things that religions teach that are unethical -- as I am sure you are aware. What is ethical in one religion or moral stance, is not ethical in all.

Is that what we call a false dichotomy?

Nope. Regions are not the same as ethics.

Try explaining how it is not false.

Done.

has been used as a legal system?

Are you really educated or is it just your alter ego that has been? Because your ignorance is astounding, to say the least.

Islam is a legal system. This might be a difficult concept for a conformist, identityless, brainwashed drone like you to comprehend but Islam is based on the word of God. And the word of God is the law.

Ah. Language barrier again. You are defining legal system too narrowly. Legal systems also include systems of government -- and not every system of government, even the Islamic ones, interpret Islam the same way. This does not even mention the fact that there are non-Islamic systems of government that can be brought into this discussion, if the asker is not speaking only in a religious context. Hence my request for clarification.

As a matter of fact, much of the wests secular law system is derived from Divine Scripture.

You are welcome to think that, but just because they arrived at similar end points does not mean they did not travel different roads.

But getting exposed for your lies and your shortcomings should bother you.

Oh, there is no worry at all of you doing that to me. I am worried more about exposing you.

Continue and I' ll show you how

Feel free. You have been trying for several weeks now, and the only thing that has happened is I educated you, and corrected your flawed views.

[Alchemist]

Indeed. I don't have much to add on Islam's stance on suicide bombings. I do not know the Koran well enough to make statements definitively on it's stance.

The OP did say not to turn this into a secular vs religious discussion so he did ask your opinion on its justification. Was his grasp of the english language too poor for you as well?

In other words, no body asked you to make statements in regards to Islam.

This is by design. If you would actually read what I posted, you would see that I am very interested in comparing religious views with non-religious views.

How would you do the comparison if you just admitted that you are ignorant of the religious views?
Just because you write nonsense, doesn't mean that I can't read.

You appear to be confused. This particular question is potentially about one religion's stance on a topic -- a particular topic I am not as educated about. While I am good with science and logic, I am weaker on Islamic teachings.

"potentially"?
Read this out loud:

Please don't turn this into another personal attacks thread or secular vs religious. Stay on topic.

Where is the potential there?

Not necessarily. There are many things that religions teach that are unethical -- as I am sure you are aware. What is ethical in one religion or moral stance, is not ethical in all.

Unethical according to whose standards?

If one thing is ethical in one culture and unethical in another culture, then it would mean that there is no such thing as ethics.

Nope. Regions are not the same as ethics.

There was no mention of regions, not even implicitly. Are you sure *you* can read?

Done.

Failed.

Ah. Language barrier again. You are defining legal system too narrowly. Legal systems also include systems of government -- and not every system of government, even the Islamic ones, interpret Islam the same way.

Ah, Sophistry again.

Islam can only be interpreted one way. The fact of the matter is that none of the "Islamic governments" today are "Islamic" in anyway shape or form. This is the main reason for the unrest in the Islamic world. A real Islamic government is headed by a Khalifa. Get your self educated before you form opinions about a subject (Deja vu...didn't we go through this already in your previous blunders with biology)

This does not even mention the fact that there are non-Islamic systems of government that can be brought into this discussion, if the asker is not speaking only in a religious context. Hence my request for clarification.

Clarification was made very CLEARLY...obviously you have some sort of dyslexia.

You are welcome to think that, but just because they arrived at similar end points does not mean they did not travel different roads.

Yes, it does not mean they did not travel different roads...It does mean that they travelled the same road.
No wait, that metaphor is inappropriate since we are not talking about divergent systems but the continuation and subsequent morphing of one system into another.

Oh, there is no worry at all of you doing that to me. I am worried more about exposing you.

Regardless...worry you must.

Feel free. You have been trying for several weeks now, and the only thing that has happened is I educated you, and corrected your flawed views.

pfft ...said the man who didn't even know basic biology vocabulary.

[ozymandias]

The OP did say not to turn this into a secular vs religious discussion so he did ask your opinion on its justification. Was his grasp of the english language too poor for you as well?

The original post did not state that it was a secular or religious question, so I asked for clarification.

In other words, no body asked you to make statements in regards to Islam.

Ok.

Doesn't mean I can't make them if I wanted to.

How would you do the comparison if you just admitted that you are ignorant of the religious views?

Wow, really? The whole point of my posting here is to fill in some of that ignorance about religious views. In order to make the comparison, I need to fill the gaps. The best way to fill the gaps is to talk with believers.

Just because you write nonsense, doesn't mean that I can't read.

Just because you cannot read doesn't mean I write nonsense.

"potentially"?
Read this out loud:



Where is the potential there?

The question could have been a secular question about legal and ethical stances and not religious ones.

*shrug* If you cannot understand that, I really don't know what to say.

Unethical according to whose standards?

Anyone not of those religions.

If one thing is ethical in one culture and unethical in another culture, then it would mean that there is no such thing as ethics.

Not true at all.

There was no mention of regions, not even implicitly. Are you sure *you* can read?

Sorry, I made a typo.

Failed.

Sorry you didn't understand it.

Ah, Sophistry again.

Islam can only be interpreted one way.

This is clearly not true.

The fact of the matter is that none of the "Islamic governments" today are "Islamic" in anyway shape or form.

No True Scotsman? Seriously?

This is the main reason for the unrest in the Islamic world. A real Islamic government is headed by a Khalifa. Get your self educated before you form opinions about a subject (Deja vu...didn't we go through this already in your previous blunders with biology)

You have repeatedly made that false statement when I was educating you about evolution, yes. You still fail to grasp the idea that repetition does not make something true.

Clarification was made very CLEARLY...obviously you have some sort of dyslexia.

Read the original post slowly and carefully.

Yes, it does not mean they did not travel different roads...It does mean that they travelled the same road.

Not every traveler to Mecca takes the same path. By your logic, they would have.

No wait, that metaphor is inappropriate since we are not talking about divergent systems but the continuation and subsequent morphing of one system into another.

You are welcome to think so.

Regardless...worry you must.

Granted, it's only a slight worry that I will embarrass you. You need self respect and dignity to worry about being embarrassed -- things you clearly lack.

pfft ...said the man who didn't even know basic biology vocabulary.

It always makes me wonder how you can confuse yourself with me. I never had any trouble with the basic vocabulary. I'm not the one that used a definition of a species that makes donkeys and horses the same species.

[ozymandias]

Alchemist, we have sidetracked this thread enough. Start a new thread if you feel like continuing this off-topic discussion.

[Alchemist]

The original post did not state that it was a secular or religious question, so I asked for clarification.

It stated that it was neither. And I don't see it being edited.

Ok.

Doesn't mean I can't make them if I wanted to.

It means he asked you not to do that.

Wow, really? The whole point of my posting here is to fill in some of that ignorance about religious views. In order to make the comparison, I need to fill the gaps. The best way to fill the gaps is to talk with believers.

Oh really? That is the best way?

How about buying a book? Doing something called: RESEARCH.

Just because you cannot read doesn't mean I write nonsense.

Clearly I can read and....

The question could have been a secular question about legal and ethical stances and not religious ones.

*shrug* If you cannot understand that, I really don't know what to say.

..you can't.

Was there a question mark in the OP's Statement that you are still saying "the question"? It was a statement. He obviously wanted your personal opinion.

Anyone not of those religions.

Define religion.
Because you are trying really hard to contrast religion against ethics as if they are two different things.

Not true at all

.

Very true.
Then it just means that you don't know what ethics means.

Sorry, I made a typo.

Show how religions differ from ethics. Because as far as I know religion is based on ethics. Rather, religion settles ethics.

You don't even know what religion means, so how did you turn out to be an atheist? Out of sheer ignorance, apparently.

Sorry you didn't understand it.

You just don't know what you are talking about.
It's that simple.
Don't blame me if you are making up arguments on the fly that have no basis or rational behind them. Simpleton.

As exemplified here:

This is clearly not true.

You don't know what Islam is. Two posts earlier you admitted to being completely ignorant of what Islam is. Last post you said you wanted to talk to a believer to know what it is. Now I am telling you what it is. And you have the audacity to tell me that what I believe of Islam is not true?

Hence: Sophistry.

No True Scotsman? Seriously?

Like I said: our model of governance is based on the original model set up by The Prophet peace be upon him, and it lasted 30 years in the way that it was suppose to be set up. Subsequent Khilafa systems that existed until 1914 had an over all system of governance that were congruent to the original. But after the fall of the Khalifa and subsequent raise of "nation states", the face of "Islamic governance" has totally changed. It has become secularized. And even if states like Saudi Arabia, or Pakistan or even Malaysia may say that they are following a sharia based system, in essence they are not.

You have repeatedly made that false statement when I was educating you about evolution, yes. You still fail to grasp the idea that repetition does not make something true.

Clearly you are delusional.

Read the original post slowly and carefully

.

Then why did you fail to answer the Poster? Clearly you didn't understand and I have. So if anything..you are the one who expresses confusion and needs "clarification". LOL

Not every traveler to Mecca takes the same path. By your logic, they would have.

ACtually, every traveller to Mecca does take the same path...from madina.

Your metaphor was inappropriate, regardless.

You are welcome to think so.

I know so. You are the one who has been found to be ignorant of history and sciences. Just stick to computers.

Granted, it's only a slight worry that I will embarrass you. You need self respect and dignity to worry about being embarrassed -- things you clearly lack.

Big bluff coming from a guy who doesn't even know what he is talking about: Religion - ethics - species - bactrium/bacteria - DNA ....All topics beyound your comprehension.

It always makes me wonder how you can confuse yourself with me. I never had any trouble with the basic vocabulary. I'm not the one that used a definition of a species that makes donkeys and horses the same species.

It doesn't, but you seem to think it does..so you are delusional.

[Alchemist]

Alchemist, we have sidetracked this thread enough. Start a new thread if you feel like continuing this off-topic discussion.

Going off topic seems to be a trend with you.

I already answered his question in another thread so he can read it there.

You are the hopeless one with the confusion and questions but no answers.

If you can't give your personal opinion on suicide bombing...then just get out. Don't make a scene and act like you are so smart you don't even know which direction to begin to answer the question from that you have to go on every tangent possible. LOL

[randolph85]

i suppose you have to be super lazy. i m sure there is a way to placing a bomb somewhere and then blowing it from a distance.

hey a group of soldiers. lets somehow place a bomb right next to them that they can't see at all and blow it up from afar.

unlikely thats easier than wearing a bomb and walking up to the soldiers.



although there are more effective guerrilla tactics and suicide bombings are easy and not as effective as other methods could be.

we did kill far more russians back in the day, and that was without suicide attacks.

[abassinafghan]

there is no moral or religious justification , its war . its the dorne or smart bomb of the poor man , if we had high tec and better equipment like jets and tanks ,we would not have this acts .

no one wants to die , however its easier to do so if you know that you will die and its no sin but for a higher cause .

a pashtun king said once , in love and in war everything is allowed ....

[Alchemist]

we did kill far more russians back in the day, and that was without suicide attacks.

The Soviet Army of 80's vs Ak47 wielding Afghans...the US/NATO army of 2010 vs the same rusted AK47 wielding Afghans. Is that a fair comparison?