Islam and Democracy

[ScimitarXEdge]

Directly

Indirectly


what difference does it make?

I think you've lost your way son ... you don't even know what you are arguing for any more.

makes a HUGE difference, because that doesn't discredit something. Just like you might find some people who say Misyar Marriage is halal as it is in Saudi, but according to Sunni Ulamah would mu'ta would contradict Shari'ah. and in practice Misyar is no different than Mu'ta. This alone doesn't discredit the system.

the benefit of the system to human life does.

[faye]

your ideas are hand-me downs filtered for you by dogmatic cartel who's decide what they think Islam should mean FOR YOU.

isn't that like you and those who believe in the theory of evolution re; human beings? just replace the word islam with 'theory of evolution'.

[ScimitarXEdge]

isn't that like you and those who believe in the theory of evolution re; human beings? just replace the word islam with 'theory of evolution'.

No because theory of evolution is part of how species exist on earth, it doesn't have anything to do with a political system where a despot telling you whether you can spend your money on healthcare or not

[faye]

i have been reading scientists views about creationism and evolution theory and they sound like arrogant bigots, your wording there reminded me of them.
but anyway, all the democracies or whatever are all being taken over by the banks, who are basically fascists, so it doesn't matter what leadership one has as these creatures infiltrate, one way or another. like libya not being part of this bank cartel, probably soon will be if not already.

[ScimitarXEdge]

Faye that's ad-hominem though,you can't just discredit something because you don't like the people perpetuating it.

I have relatives who joined the Taliban, but it's the flaws in their ideology that's the problem

you're doing the reverse attacking the people not the ideology

[faye]

scimitar, i do dislike the scientists who immorally create monsters. i am talking about attitude there. just as i don't dislike you, i do think your attitude to wards others and their beliefs, could do with a bit of 'evolving', lol.

[ScimitarXEdge]

what about scientists who cure formerly crippling ailments?

you seem to use peoples applications of science as a scapegoat.

but if you think science is intrinsically destructive ....why do you use computers?

What I said still applies you're discrediting a concept about how the world works just because you dislike the behavior of individuals who present it.

[faye]

we have tangetted her, but scimitar, where did you see me say that i think science is 'intrinsically' destructive?
scientists attitudes is not why i don't believe in some of the 'theories' put forward.

[Alchemist]

^ typical ****mitar tact to put words in your mouth...get used to it.

let's not forget that AIDs became a human problem because some jack ass scientists used live monkeys with aids to develop vaccines.

As for the misyar and mut ah issue ...that is more an example of a strawman fallacy. Prostitution is prostitution. What do you want to argue about it? That is it halal or not? You think it is wrong but the "council" of experts in regards to the issue have weight on by "consultation" ...in their own form of "democracy" they have rationalized it. So shouldn't you be proud?


Besides ... who am I to say otherwise?
Didn't you hear that in 1998 the Constitutional Court of Turkey banned a political party on the grounds that it wanted to introduce Sharia Law..saying that it was incompatible with democracy. When the party appealed, the European Court of Human Rights determined that Shariah was incompatible with the fundamentals of democracy...

so what do you want ****mitar? Democracy or Sharia? Or DemoSharia...
This reminds me of another lad who opted for Islamic Socialism...lol

you guys are funny... to say the least.

[ScimitarXEdge]

we have tangetted her, but scimitar, where did you see me say that i think science is 'intrinsically' destructive?
scientists attitudes is not why i don't believe in some of the 'theories' put forward.

then why would you even mention it? you don't seem to have any response to their research. then what is it?

[faye]

i'll try again

scimitar, where did you see me say that i think science is 'intrinsically' destructive?

[ScimitarXEdge]

let's not forget that AIDs became a human problem because some jack ass scientists used live monkeys with aids to develop vaccines.

that's a HUUUUUGE conspiracy theory.

Why is it you will beieve stuff that doesn't even have any research to verify it but suff with research you'll try to look for the most nebulous thing to claim it's a hoax.

As for the misyar and mut ah issue ...that is more an example of a strawman fallacy.

No its not because I never claimed you advocate Misyar; but that much like you say that they need to "indirectly" change core laws and values of the society by looking for pretexts. Misyar is a perfect example of that being done in the name of Shari'ah.

IF ANYTHING your argument here is a straw man of my argument.

Prostitution is prostitution. What do you want to argue about it? That is it halal or not? You think it is wrong but the "council" of experts in regards to the issue have weight on by "consultation" ...in their own form of "democracy" they have rationalized it. So shouldn't you be proud?

This is exactly the type of straw man I'm talking about, no one here is advocating Islam legalize prostitution; I was right your whole animus is because your puny brain can't comprehend anything except the Western cultural system in association with democracy. As demonstrated Democracy is just a term, the processes existed amongst Muslims long before any Modern Western Nation.

Besides ... who am I to say otherwise?
Didn't you hear that in 1998 the Constitutional Court of Turkey banned a political party on the grounds that it wanted to introduce Sharia Law..saying that it was incompatible with democracy. When the party appealed, the European Court of Human Rights determined that Shariah was incompatible with the fundamentals of democracy..

.

So it must mean that it is true because they said so right.

you have such a juvenille and superficial comprehension of things.

so what do you want ****mitar? Democracy or Sharia? Or DemoSharia...
This reminds me of another lad who opted for Islamic Socialism...lol

Shar'iah already allots democracy so there is no demohari'ah, or shariademocracy, it's already enshrined in Shari'ah.

Whether it is representative democracy as with elders and wisemen as the early Muslims did it or direct democracy. It is there.

you guys are funny... to say the least.

your laughter is more based on your mental retardation than understanding. As demonstrated by your "Turkiish secularists say so so it must be true" argument

[ScimitarXEdge]

i'll try again

Because you always argue from that perspective as if by mentoning misuse you discredit all of science; if that isn't your position, then take positive application of science for what they are, rather than always trying to scapegoat your ignorance and blind faith by mentioning negatives

We all know the negatives; heck i'm the one who EDUcATES people like you on the dangers of misapplying science. That said we must understand it's positives

[faye]

you haven't really educated me on anything yet. you have inspired some research which has basically verifired what i already knew.
by mentioning misuse of science, i do not discredit all of science, by not believing, blindly in 'the theory of big bang and evolution, i do not discredit all of science. if it is correct, what i have read, science was around before those theories.
when you have resolved the mysteries of black holes, where the stuff came from and the energy for the big bang, then scientists will maybe, be getting closer to knowing about the consciousness which has created everything or with quantum mechanics they might come to the conclusion it is all just a figment of our imagination, an illusion. what then would be the 'theory of evolution'?

[ScimitarXEdge]

But if that was the case why do you ignore that I have introduced to you specific instances where speciation has in fact be observed, you merely downplay it


and as for research, please show me which research you have investigated that confirms your original beliefs ......if it's from a Creationist website I'll laugh really hard lol