What's your view on Hijab?

[Roshina]

I take it that you don't think it is mandatory, then?

That's correct. After a long, strenuous research on the history, practice, and purposes of hijab -- when hijab = headcovering -- I now stand among those Muslims who believe that the headcovering is not mandatory; it's merely optional. Again, this is ONLY if "hijab" = a headcover. The notion of modesty, I doubt anyone on earth will agree that modesty is extremely important.

Explaining my stance will require a lot of time from me, which I'm lacking right now as I'm extremely busy with a ton of other things. You may, however, read about my thoughts on the niqab at the following links:

- Khyberwatch - The Concept of Veil/Purdah in Islam
- My Thoughts on the Niqab (It's about the niqab (face-covering) and not exactly the hijab (head-covering), BUT the discussion in the comments goes into hijab as well.)
- Interview with Dr. Riffat Hassan
- Riffat Hassan on Women in Islam (Note: Riffat Hassan isn't the only female scholar of Islam out there; there are many, many more. She happens to be only one of the many whom I admire. You're more than free to disagree with anything she says. But I agree with her on many (not all) things. If you need a list of scholars, both classical and contemporary, who involve themselves in long discourses of the hijab/head-covering or dress code of women in general, lemme know. I'll be happy to provide a list of many books, articles, and scholars. The only reason I have blog posts on Riffat Hassan is totally random - I was just on my blog and decided to post what I was reading. Otherwise, I've got a lot of other folks in mind to write long blog posts on.)

And some other links/posts on my blog, if you type in "hijab" in the little search bar at my blog. I'd do it, but I don't have time right now, so I'm sure you understand.

BUT right now and here in this thread, I must remind you that ultimately, if you look at the different translations of the Quranic verses that talk about modesty and covering/dress code, all are translated differently. Only one, the King Fahd interpretation of the Quran, makes it obligatory on women to cover everything from head to toe -- it even says, "Leave only one eye uncovered"!

Try comparing them all, and you'll see what I mean.

Nonetheless, I'll be back in this topic in a couple of months' time to explain my stance further, as I'm sure it's very confusing and unacceptable to many. (I don't mind the unacceptability of my thoughts, of course, but I won't mind giving explanations when I have time, ka khair wee.)

[Iqra]

I am sorry but I don't think your last question is right... it's not the right approach bro ...

maybe I am missing the point in the Q

[Roshina]

Qrratagai, would it be safe to say that the wives of the Prophet (saw) and he himself misinterpreted the Holy Quran?

No. I do not believe that the Prophet or his wives misinterpreted the Quran.

NEITHER do I believe that any scholar has misinterpreted the Quran, believe it or not, whether I personally agree with their conclusions or not. Again, I'll have to explain this later. In the meantime, I urge you to look into the idea of interpretation, what it means, and all. I plan to post on PF an explanation of what "interpretation" means, and what *I* mean by it each time I use it, so hopefully it'll be useful for at least some of us. I'm actuallying DYING to do that right now, but I can't. Every now and then, I write my thoughts on it in a document I've created for it, but when it's completed, I'll share it with y'all.

[MeemWawMeemNoon]

You don't need to go into that much detail.

If you don't believe that the Holy Prophet (saw) misinterpreted and the mothers of the believers, his wives, wore them because of Quranic injunctions then why go through the fuss?

Case closed.

[Roshina]

^ Well, I'm known for "complicating" things, which I don't mind doing, frankly speaking.

Still, if you don't wanna discuss it further, that's fine. Case closed then, I guess. (For you, though, since it doesn't end here for me. You understand, of course. The fact remains, after all, that the Quran doesn't command that we cover our bodies from head to toe, leaving just the face/eyes/hands. And another fact is that ... culture plays a MAJOR role in our interpretations of Holy Texts. A third fact, I should add, is that ... today's interpretations and practice of Islam aren't exactly the same as those of the first couple of centuries of Islam! (Surprised? Don't be. It's only natural and normal.) I'll let you do the rest of the thinking.)

[Muslimah]

Just to clarify, the prophet pbuh had many wives, they covered even their face and hands. This was a choice of the wives during this time. Please keep in mind the Quran was revealed to our beloved Prophet pbuh throughout his lifetime, but the wives did not necessarily dress according to Quran.
I have read that the wives covered completely, including face and hands because they were sort of put on a pedestal because they were married to someone of such importance. It was for their modesty, and for his and their protection.
I mean look at how many wives he had? The Quran says not to have more than 4, it even says it is preferable not to have more than one. So of course, things adapted, as did the lives of Muslims during the time the Quran was being revealed. Including the wives.
I am aware of the aya in the quran that says to draw a veil over they bosom. But I am also aware that when I ask my niqabi friend why they wear niqab, they say it is because they want to be like the prophets wives.

[Roshina]

I am sorry but I don't think your last question is right... it's not the right approach bro ...

Oh, don't worry, khorey. If you ask me, this approach of asking simple questions instead of making assumptions and stating them as facts is faaaaaaaaaar better than many other approaches I've come across. I think Bro MWMN was just reminding us that the way the Prophet interpreted the Quran cannot be seen as wrong, since he was, after all, the living Islam.

[Badlun]

The only HIJAB/PARDA or covering that I see in the verse on Hijab is to cover the bossoms which is a normal practice in the whole world that women usually cover their bossoms.
this is what the verse says

that they should draw veils over their bosoms

all other parts of the verse are about modesty etc.

And a friend in another topic has raised a very important issue that why Pashtuns always discuss Hijab why not other Muslims. It seems that Pashtuns have taken the whole responsibility to observe all religious injunctions in letter and spirit why others are busy in other more importnat things!

I believe Islam to be only a religion and not culture and dress is part of culture not religion.

My views on Hijab as posted in another topic on Burka are reproduced below.

Here on the HIJAB/NIQAB/PARDAH issue I would like to say that this hijab etc is really a conspiracy against Muslim women generally and Pashtun women specially. Dress should be decent one and according to the climate and situation. Thats all. Its not a big issue.In warm araes dress should be light and vice versa in cold areas. Similarly it should be formal, informal etc according to the situation.

Pashtun women should come out in rebellion against the dress code imposed upon them by their male masters and by the illiterate mullas and taliban. They should dress decently as done by any other woman whether Muslim or not. Religion has nothing to do with your dresses. Its part of the culture not religion. Religion deals with your faith, worship amd morality not with your dress. Do you think all Muslim women dress equally in the whole Muslim world. No there is a hell of difference.

Burka is the extreme form of enslaving a Pashtun woman. Its cruelty, barbarity and the ugliest form of a dress. How can you cover a human being in a sack like a packet of potatos or onion. Please discourage its use. Its a curse.

Pashtun women dress is an important issue. More than 90 % Pashtun women even cant show their faces in public. They have to cover their whole body like we cover a corpse in coffin. Saudi Arabia and Pashtun areas in Afghanistan and Pakistan (Pashtunland)are the only two examples even in Muslim world where women are obliged to cover their faces. This is a clear absurdity , an extreme stupidity in this modern era that you dont let a human being even not to show her face.

However we should avoid extremes of shuttle cock burkas and mini skirts. If A Pashtun woman is a profesional lady , if she is intelligent, if she is knowledgable, if she is intellectual and she is Pashtun by race and by practice , she sepaks Pashto, she writes Pashto , she teaches Pashto to her children - all these are important , not how she lives, where she lives , she wears skirt or paint shirt or kamees partug -these are non essential for me ,-however we should avoid both the extremes-mini skirt and shuttle cock burKa are two extremes , we should find a middle way especially when a Pashtun woman live in Pashtunland till the time comes when dress does not remain an important issue as we see nowa days in modern developed world of Europe, America etc.

[Roshina]

This was a choice of the wives during this time. Please keep in mind the Quran was revealed to our beloved Prophet pbuh throughout his lifetime, but the wives did not necessarily dress according to Quran.

I tooooootally agree! But you mentioned in your first post that you interpret some Quranic verses to mean that everything but the face and hands should be covered, and since now you say that the Prophet's wives didn't necessarily dress according to the Quran's commands, I take it that you're saying that you just want to BE like the Prophet's wives, even though it's not necessarily what the Quran commands... correct? In that case, I have to remind you that next time you say "the Quran says," please try to give the verses you're referring to, Jaan I mean, one makes it optional (wanting to be like the Prophet's wives is not obligatory whatsoever), and the other makes it an obligation (doing what the Quran supposedly commands in clear words).

It's one thing to say that you want to dress like the Prophet's wives -- which is toootally okay and understandable and perhaps even commendable to some -- but it's nothing thing, I'd think, to say the Quran tells you to cover your face/hair/etc. No?

[MeemWawMeemNoon]

What you are doing sister is very dangerous. The fascinating thing is that you are doing it with full control over your senses. You are conscious. What benefit do you see? Where do you draw the line with "complicating" things?

Why do you take liberty with this? I mean if you were not a Muslim, I can understand, but as a Muslim you are misleading your fellow sisters.

To me there is no difference between a non-Muslim and you. At least they have dignity to not call themselves a Muslim. It seems that you are using your Muslim title as a way to mislead others. Don't do this. Be honest. I would say the same thing to you if you called yourself a Christian and used it to criticize Christianity from the inside.

In the end, you will not gain anything out this. You will only have confused yourself even more. It is things like this that lead to Atheism, if you are not an Atheist by now.

One thing I have noticed is that you question Islam at every junction, why? I don't know what you are up to but, it is only youself that you are hurting end of the day. No one else.

[Roshina]

My views on Hijab as posted in another topic on Burka are reproduced below.

No, yaa Osho, daa gwatey bade maati shee ka link de raakra?!

(Translation: Osho, would it KILL you to share the link of wherever those views are posted?)

[Roshina]

@ MWMN:

I strongly disagree that what I'm doing is dangerous or that I'm hurting myself, BUT I can imagine why you'd think that, so all's well. If you see it as hurtful to others, then I guess I can stop posing the sort of challenges to other Muslims. Ahhh, no, wait, I can't stop. Sorry ... I may put it to a minimum, but I can't stop asking the kinds of questions I ask here and there ...

The sister did ask, after all, about our views on hijab. I gave my 2 cents in each post.

And, bro, don't you worry none :D I've got my boundaries drawn perfectly well.

As for calling oneself Muslim, ... must I remind you over and over, I'm Muslim. I see we don't hang around people with different perspectives very much, yeah? To me, THAT is more dangerous and lethal than thinking.

[MeemWawMeemNoon]

@ MWMN:

I strongly disagree that what I'm doing is dangerous or that I'm hurting myself, BUT I can imagine why you'd think that, so all's well. If you see it as hurtful to others, then I guess I can stop posing the sort of challenges to other Muslims. Ahhh, no, wait, I can't stop. Sorry ... I may put it to a minimum, but I can't stop asking the kinds of questions I ask here and there ...

The sister did ask, after all, about our views on hijab. I gave my 2 cents in each post.

And, bro, don't you worry none :D I've got my boundaries drawn perfectly well.

As for calling oneself Muslim, ... must I remind you over and over, I'm Muslim. I see we don't hang around people with different perspectives very much, yeah? To me, THAT is more dangerous and lethal than thinking.

With all due respect, we have not been taught this in Islam. If someone is a blind Muslim then so be it. If someone is a blind Christian then so be it. But you do not have the right to strengthen their faith by killing the foundation of their faith in the first place. Why? Because you don't offer an alternative. Just questions.

Tell me this, why are you a Muslim? Have you studied all other religions as you tell others to do?

[Roshina]

With all due respect, we have not been taught this in Islam. If someone is a blind Muslim then so be it. If someone is a blind Christian then so be it. But you do not have the right to strengthen their faith by killing the foundation of their faith in the first place.

What? Who says I'm killing the foundation of their faith? If that's how you understand my approaches, then so be it. I only ask questions and challenge them. If they can't answer my questions, they should just say it so instead of going in circles, trying to answer. If they don't like being challenged, they should say that out loud as well. I understand not all people are okay with being challenged, and I'm okay with it.

Those who don't like my questions/challenges should simply ignore my comments.

Tell me this, why are you a Muslim?

My reasons for being Muslim... where do I begin! I'm not sure if you'll understand, or perhaps you will misunderstand.

Maybe another time, bro.

Have you studied all other religions as you tell others to do?

Yes! Yes, I have - and I continue doing so today. Been only two years since I started doing this, so it'll take time to really understand them, and, of course, it's humanly impossible to study every single religion and that even in depth, but it's no harm in doing whatever we can or whatever we have time for. But since I'm into religions and that's my field of study, it's more convenient for me.

Oh, and I'd never, ever tell others to do something I myself am incapable of doing or don't do myself, bro. If what I'm encouraging is something I WANT to do but am not doing for whatever reasons, though, I'll say it so out loud.

But I'm glad you asked. I'm sure others were wondering the same thing.

[Roshina]

A side note:

I think I should introduce myself to everyone in a separate thread so that they know what "devilish" posts to expect from me after they join PF! :S I feel like Muslimah must be thinking that I'm "attacking" her views, which isn't really my intention or desire, but that's just how I talk ... So, to Muslimah, please understand that this is very typical of me and I'm not targeting you, k?