Halal Meat and the meat of Ahl-al-Kitab?

[jankhan]

This is very strange logic that killing someone in one instant is more cruel than killing by bits, cutting with a knife the throat slowly and then letting it dieing gradually. The electric shock kills in an instant and thus less pain.

As I said earlier Taking name of Allah is a religious practice which can be done in both the times when you kill the animal or when you eat the cooked meat. No restriction is there. It is just a religious act which reminds you that food is a blessing from God.

Quran does not mention at what exact time you mention the name.

Badlun don't become a munkar e hadees. In quran it is not mentioned how to pray. For the details we refer to Hadees.

[jankhan]

I am a strange Pashtun who is challenging many myths like Halal Food. Do you think I will not face opposition from the extremely conservative and many radical religious bigots. It is natural my brother.

can you explain me what is the true way of Islam? For me the true way is Sufism not Salafism or Wahabism. I do not consider this a true way that a religious text or a Mullah decide what I eat and what I wear. For me islam is my morality, spirituality and metaphysics but not food, culture, dress, politics etc.

How can I believe in an Islam with polygamy, half worth of woman in evidence and inheritance, beating of women as a religious duty, marrying minors as sunna, marrying adopted daughters and even mother, killing people by stoning etc.

Is it not stupid that you may eat the so called Halal food even if it is dirty, unhygienic, unbalanced and not nutritious? Why we do not keep the conditions of hygiene and nutrition and not stuck with its religiosity. Even spiritually you can mention the name of Allah but why a especial kind of tortuous way of killing as religious duty?

Problem with you is that you believe and practice in what you WANT to believe and practice. half ok half not.
You behave like a munkar e hadees. You have to believe in quran and hadees completely otherwise your belief is incomplete.

[Badlun]

FrontPage magazine is an Israeli Firsters rag... not taken seriously by most academics or even moderate politicians.

Why something Israeli is not desirable. Please be objective and do not look for the data or evidence what you want but what the reality is. Instead of saying that this source is not taken seriously you may condemn and refute what they say not who they are!

If I say God is one and you will find faults in it because it is said by Badlun. We should give the devil its due share.

Let us take religion also objectively. You being a doctor is more concerned with the halalness of food or its nutrition and hygiene?

[RevolutionThroughReason]

This is very strange logic that killing someone in one instant is more cruel than killing by bits, cutting with a knife the throat slowly and then letting it dieing gradually. The electric shock kills in an instant and thus less pain.

As I said earlier Taking name of Allah is a religious practice which can be done in both the times when you kill the animal or when you eat the cooked meat. No restriction is there. It is just a religious act which reminds you that food is a blessing from God.

Quran does not mention at what exact time you mention the name.

It seems strange i\ To someone who has superficial knowledge or is uneducated; When electricity passes through the body; your body responds to it. it gives off an electrical reading, THIS affects ALL the nerves in the body and is like being cooked alive. It actually does not kill the animal, but renders the animal unconscious When you die slowly, in the Halal processes, your body doesn't understand it immediately; its just gradual loss of blood which causes the death, that's why in Halal method you're not supposed to slide the trachea but the jugular vein and the blade has to be very sharp so the animal does not feel it. However the nervous system is not put in SHOCK. Shock tortures an animal.

Seems to be more fair to the animal; I mean I think God obviously wants fairness to animals don't you?

If there's no specificity to when you're supposed to say God's name; then what's the use of making such a suggestion; Maybe they can say it 6 years after killing the animal or 6 years before killing it. It wouldn't ake a difference, a person can be grateful without saying anything; So then there has to be ANOTHER reason behind saying God's name and also specific time when it should be said.

Maybe if we look in the actual Way the Muslims who followed Muhammad(saw) did the actual practice we can know what the Qur'an was actually saying.....What do you think? Maybe that will give us a clue on what the actual implications of the verses are?

[randolph85]

This is very strange logic that killing someone in one instant is more cruel than killing by bits, cutting with a knife the throat slowly and then letting it dieing gradually. The electric shock kills in an instant and thus less pain.

As I said earlier Taking name of Allah is a religious practice which can be done in both the times when you kill the animal or when you eat the cooked meat. No restriction is there. It is just a religious act which reminds you that food is a blessing from God.

Quran does not mention at what exact time you mention the name.

taking the name of god only when eating the meat makes no sense as it is made permissible in the quran to eat kosher meat, why would there even be such a mention of that if muslims could simply invoke the name of god on their own during the meal?

[M17ArnoBaloch]

This is very strange logic that killing someone in one instant is more cruel than killing by bits, cutting with a knife the throat slowly and then letting it dieing gradually. The electric shock kills in an instant and thus less pain.

Actually killing an animal by electrocuting it is a lot more painful than just slitting it's throat. Considering when you electrocute the animal every single part of their body get's a taste of pain including their eyeballs, their lips, tongues, legs, toes, internal organs such as lungs, heart, brian, liver, kidneys, muscle connection, bones. Every single part of your body get's a round of intense pain. That's quiet painful.

You can't possibly say that unless you've been elecrocuted to death yourself.

[Badlun]

This is a clear proof that religion like any emotion or a drug blinds people. Just think over a simple case. When the doctor puts the syringe for an injection, do you feel the pain only in the arm or in the whole body? Do you like that the syringe remains there for a long time or as short as possible?

The same happens in stunning versus slitting with a knife. With electric shock the whole body feels the pain but for a fraction of a second while slaughtering an animal when you put the knife on the throat, the whole body also feels the pain but for a longer time.

I have seen cases especially in Eid ul Adha that the people do not have sharp knives and they are cutting the throats of animals like cutting a tree and the poor animal is groaning and struggling to run away from the scene while the people are binding and controlling it with ropes. What a horrible scene! instead you can stun the animal and just in an instant it is relieved of the pain.

The same happens in all the small villages in Muslim countries where they do not have proper slaughtering houses and they are only concerned with the religious ritual of Halal but not with any other facility for the slaughtering as cleanliness, proper slitting or stunning tools etc.

Sometimes seeing such horrible scenes I remember of Buddhism or Hinduism where killing of animals is prohibited and see some logic in that.

[jankhan]

This is a clear proof that religion like any emotion or a drug blinds people. Just think over a simple case. When the doctor puts the syringe for an injection, do you feel the pain only in the arm or in the whole body? Do you like that the syringe remains there for a long time or as short as possible?

The same happens in stunning versus slitting with a knife. With electric shock the whole body feels the pain but for a fraction of a second while slaughtering an animal when you put the knife on the throat, the whole body also feels the pain but for a longer time.

I have seen cases especially in Eid ul Adha that the people do not have sharp knives and they are cutting the throats of animals like cutting a tree and the poor animal is groaning and struggling to run away from the scene while the people are binding and controlling it with ropes. What a horrible scene! instead you can stun the animal and just in an instant it is relieved of the pain.

The same happens in all the small villages in Muslim countries where they do not have proper slaughtering houses and they are only concerned with the religious ritual of Halal but not with any other facility for the slaughtering as cleanliness, proper slitting or stunning tools etc.

Sometimes seeing such horrible scenes I remember of Buddhism or Hinduism where killing of animals is prohibited and see some logic in that.

Islam tells you to sharpen the knife so that the animal do not feel the pain a lot. so its the fault of the people and not islam. Don't mix the wrong doings of the people with Islam.

[jankhan]

Actually killing an animal by electrocuting it is a lot more painful than just slitting it's throat. Considering when you electrocute the animal every single part of their body get's a taste of pain including their eyeballs, their lips, tongues, legs, toes, internal organs such as lungs, heart, brian, liver, kidneys, muscle connection, bones. Every single part of your body get's a round of intense pain. That's quiet painful.

He will not accept the truth, he is stubborn.

[RevolutionThroughReason]

This is a clear proof that religion like any emotion or a drug blinds people. Just think over a simple case. When the doctor puts the syringe for an injection, do you feel the pain only in the arm or in the whole body? Do you like that the syringe remains there for a long time or as short as possible?

The same happens in stunning versus slitting with a knife. With electric shock the whole body feels the pain but for a fraction of a second while slaughtering an animal when you put the knife on the throat, the whole body also feels the pain but for a longer time.

I have seen cases especially in Eid ul Adha that the people do not have sharp knives and they are cutting the throats of animals like cutting a tree and the poor animal is groaning and struggling to run away from the scene while the people are binding and controlling it with ropes. What a horrible scene! instead you can stun the animal and just in an instant it is relieved of the pain.

The same happens in all the small villages in Muslim countries where they do not have proper slaughtering houses and they are only concerned with the religious ritual of Halal but not with any other facility for the slaughtering as cleanliness, proper slitting or stunning tools etc.

Sometimes seeing such horrible scenes I remember of Buddhism or Hinduism where killing of animals is prohibited and see some logic in that.

Actually In Hinduism, depending on which sect you're from, only Killing Cows is prohibited, If you've ever been to India, Hindus and Muslims eat Mutton and Chicken and Fish pretty frequently. In Buddhism killing is not prohibited by causing suffering is prohibited. As for your comment about religion being an emotional drug and the method of killing, You're missing the point. An injection is a totally different stimulus than a cut and likewise an eledtrical current. INjections will make contact with different kinds of nerves than a cut will. Depending on how sharp the needle or blade are. The Electrical Current will stimulate ALL the nerves AT ONCE. Have you ever received an electric shock before? What is so hard for you to understand here? It has nothing to do with religion, but basic understanding of Biology.

If anything; your reaction demonstrates that it is your stubborn ignorance and Inner Hatred for Islam which you display with your attempts at Diminishing the Relevance of Islam as a method of social regulation which seems to have intoxicated and deluded you, not the other way around. I don't ask you the questions that I asked because I dont know the answers; I ask them because I'm showing the rest of the world that you don't know what you're talking about.

Do some more research Badlun.

[khushal]

electrocution is like being cooked alive. Your literally being fried. The US is the only country in the world that has used this method of execution.

[khushal]

He will not accept the truth, he is stubborn.

He is not stubborn, He is completely stupid. He also claims he has many degrees but he does not even understand the basics of anything.

[khushal]

Do some more research Badlun.

Research? His form of research comes up with conclusion like loose clothing encourages laziness. hahahahahahahahahahahahahaha

[BarakzaiAbdali]

Why something Israeli is not desirable. Please be objective and do not look for the data or evidence what you want but what the reality is. Instead of saying that this source is not taken seriously you may condemn and refute what they say not who they are!

If I say God is one and you will find faults in it because it is said by Badlun. We should give the devil its due share.

Let us take religion also objectively. You being a doctor is more concerned with the halalness of food or its nutrition and hygiene?

Badlun,

If horwitz wrote a well sourced article based in fiqh that did not seek to simply rouse up anti Muslim sentiment with a series of poorly written inneundos then we might have a basis to talk.

And yes, both you and Horwitz are suspect when you make declarations because of proven agendas (which is what Scheuer is discussing above).

This is based on your patterns of established, uneducated, agenda laced, and unacademic behavior towards ideologies. (e.g. the time you claimed that loose clothing encourages poor work ethic or the time you were shown to be dubious when you could not answer for how on the one hand the abysmally low rate of disease with cousin cousin marriages were somehow more important in deciding to ban cousin marriages - but the known high rates of disease transmission in premarital sexual relationships as per the CDC was approved and advocated by you).

FrontPage hosts the like of Debbi Schlussel etc.

Israeli writers and others are not the issue, as Dr. Morris and others have written strong and academic articles and histories that are exceptionally well done.

If the article emanated out of the Technion, then I would have to take it seriously... but the article you cited is very much like someone quoting Inspire or some other propaganda laced journal.

The halal meat as per the Kosher concept predates the modern schism between sufi and Wahhabi etc. There are many many Christians, secularists and even Hindus who sell halal meat in their restaurants for business purposes, or deal it out as a secondary source of sale.

Adding upon the above... source actually makes a different to a doctor. If someone cites the New England Journal of Medicine or JAMA, that makes a big difference as compared to some low impact factor journal.

The concept in academia is defined as impact factor and even extends beyond medicine.

So for that reason, to be published in a powerful impact factor journal is better for your CV, etc.

Most of your sources are extremely low impact factor and fit a narrative that centers around, as Scimitar noted, of usurping Islam as it has been understood by scholars and the masses according to anthropological, historical, Eastern, Western critics, etc for nearly 1420+ years.

That is not a problem if you had stronger citations to prove a point... or at least built a convincing case to be dealt with ... but instead most of your arguments fit the militant secularist narrative.

I'm sorry but its simply the pattern you have established that makes it so that even your own brethren in thought, e.g. Toramana have disavowed you and found your inability to prove your points a handicap on their cause.

[Badlun]

Slaughtering animals in the so called Halal way is now becoming an animals' rights issue. Very soon you will hear news that Halal slaughtering is legally stopped in many countries as we saw recently in Poland where Halal slaughtering is now legally banned.

What do you think about the following

'Stunning' Study Can Make Halal Slaughter More Humane

The treatment of animals in the live-export trade—in which animals are shipped thousands of miles to slaughterhouses, where their throats are slit while they are still conscious—is not only inhumane, it also flies in the face of the teachings of the Holy Koran and halal humane-slaughter laws.
Islamic Concern: 'Stunning' Study Can Make Halal Slaughter More Humane

The slaughter of conscious animals was widely abandoned in the 20th Century and is now practised mainly in the Jewish and Muslim communities. Consumers increasingly expect animals to be stunned before death - but would banning other slaughter methods be an unacceptable violation of religious rights?

The plant - the second-biggest veal abattoir in Europe - has used stunning on all its calves - some 300,000 a year - since 2008. Before then it performed some religious slaughter without stunning for the Jewish and Muslim communities, but changing public attitudes towards animal welfare forced a rethink.
BBC News - Should animals be stunned before slaughter?

Humane Methods of Slaughter Act, which requires that farm animals be insensible to pain before they're shackled and killed. The HSUS is working with retailers to help move companies that slaughter birds toward a less cruel system.
Cruel Slaughter Practices : The Humane Society of the United States

Stop Halal Slaughtering of Animals - It's cruel and barbaric

https://www.facebook.com/pages/Stop-Halal-Slaughtering-of-Animals-Its-cruel-and-barbaric/177325368988854