American Muslims and their weird mentality

[شمله ور خراساني]

Bismiallahi ar-rahman ar-rahim

salam alaykum,

I've been talking to Muslims from USA and Canada for several years.

I have noticed that there are a distinct group among the Muslims in USA who can best fit the discription of "American Muslim".

Usually, Muslims do not have any loyality are patriotic sentiments towards the kaafir country where they live.

But it is becoming more apparent that a number of Muslims in America are especially patriotic and loyal to USA.

Sometimes they even talk asif the country which was established on kufr is more dear to them than the Muslim Ummah.

Is this a known phenomenon to you too?

[شمله ور خراساني]

walaikum as salam

There is no harm in being patriotic to the land where you live and were probably born. part of being a good patriot is to criticize the wrong actions of your government or your countrymen and try to correct those mistakes. so if they are true american patriots they would protest against american support for isreal and its policy of waging wars on less developed countries for strategic and economic reasons.

In America your free to practice your religion so they should be grateful for that, there is islamic colleges, mosques etc where there is muslim population and people are free to do dawah. why shouldn't they be patriotic and have good relations with fellow americans? Their government might be corrupt and controlled by neo cons and pro isreal lobby but american values of freedom, equality and fraternity are to be admired.

Can you justify that with proofs from Quran & Sunnah?

[شمله ور خراساني]

Is it true American kids have to stand up every class and repeat that oath thing?

if you want to become a US citizen you have to blead allegiance to its kufr constitution which by itself is an act of apostasy.

[Gulbabo]

So what do you want American citizens to be? Munafiq? live in this country, work here, enjoy a peaceful life, and in the background work against the country and harm the country and the government?

what is wrong with being patriotic American? That does not mean you have to agree with everything the government does or says. many non-muslim American citizens don't agree with goverment and are working very hard to change the system, that doesn't mean they are not patriotic.

I actually don't like the two faced muslims that reside in Western countries. they get paid there, most live on welfare there and they have this hatred in their heart. It is not OK.

[شمله ور خراساني]

So what do you want American citizens to be? Munafiq? live in this country, work here, enjoy a peaceful life, and in the background work against the country and harm the country and the government?

what is wrong with being patriotic American? That does not mean you have to agree with everything the government does or says. many non-muslim American citizens don't agree with goverment and are working very hard to change the system, that doesn't mean they are not patriotic.

I actually don't like the two faced muslims that reside in Western countries. they get paid there, most live on welfare there and they have this hatred in their heart. It is not OK.

LOL. So you are an American Muslim.

Here is the logic of an American Muslim:

So what do you want American citizens to be? Munafiq? live in this country, work here, enjoy a peaceful life, and in the background work against the country and harm the country and the government?

Munafiq is someone who says he is a Muslim when he is among Muslims and when he is among kaafirs he says he is a kaafir:

سُوۡرَةُ البَقَرَة
وَمِنَ ٱلنَّاسِ مَن يَقُولُ ءَامَنَّا بِٱللَّهِ وَبِٱلۡيَوۡمِ ٱلۡأَخِرِ وَمَا هُم بِمُؤۡمِنِينَ (٨) يُخَـٰدِعُونَ ٱللَّهَ وَٱلَّذِينَ ءَامَنُواْ وَمَا يَخۡدَعُونَ إِلَّآ أَنفُسَهُمۡ وَمَا يَشۡعُرُونَ (٩) فِى قُلُوبِهِم مَّرَضٌ۬ فَزَادَهُمُ ٱللَّهُ مَرَضً۬ا*ۖ وَلَهُمۡ عَذَابٌ أَلِيمُۢ بِمَا كَانُواْ يَكۡذِبُونَ (١٠) وَإِذَا قِيلَ لَهُمۡ لَا تُفۡسِدُواْ فِى ٱلۡأَرۡضِ قَالُوٓاْ إِنَّمَا نَحۡنُ مُصۡلِحُونَ (١١)

Al-Baqara
And of mankind, there are some (hypocrites) who say: "We believe in Allâh and the Last Day" while in fact they believe not. (8) They (think to) deceive Allâh and those who believe, while they only deceive themselves, and perceive (it) not! (9) In their hearts is a disease (of doubt and hypocrisy) and Allâh has increased their disease. A painful torment is theirs because they used to tell lies. (10) And when it is said to them: "Make not mischief on the earth," they say: "We are only peacemakers." (11)

Being an honest citizen who does not breaks the laws of the land does not mean being loyal to a kaafir state and being proud of a kaafir country.

But according to American Muslims you have to have blind loyalty to the state otherwise you are not a good citizen. Looks allot like Communism.

According to an American Muslim disassociating yourself from the kaafir state, its kufr laws and kaafir identity is working against the government. LOL]

It is harmful to say that you are Muslim and you are not part of a kaafir nation and you do not share its values and beliefs? LOL

I actually don't like the two faced muslims that reside in Western countries. they get paid there, most live on welfare there and they have this hatred in their heart. It is not OK.

Who told you to reside in Western countries anyways? And if you do, who says you have to claim benefits?

You have to have hatred in your heart for kaafirs and their kufr. Because a kaafir is an enemy of Allah. Who-ever does not hate kufr lacks imaan.

سُوۡرَةُ المُمتَحنَة
قَدۡ كَانَتۡ لَكُمۡ أُسۡوَةٌ حَسَنَةٌ۬ فِىٓ إِبۡرَٲهِيمَ وَٱلَّذِينَ مَعَهُ ۥۤ إِذۡ قَالُواْ لِقَوۡمِہِمۡ إِنَّا بُرَءَٲٓؤُاْ مِنكُمۡ وَمِمَّا تَعۡبُدُونَ مِن دُونِ ٱللَّهِ كَفَرۡنَا بِكُمۡ وَبَدَا بَيۡنَنَا وَبَيۡنَكُمُ ٱلۡعَدَٲوَةُ وَٱلۡبَغۡضَآءُ أَبَدًا حَتَّىٰ تُؤۡمِنُواْ بِٱللَّهِ وَحۡدَهُ ۥۤ إِلَّا قَوۡلَ إِبۡرَٲهِيمَ لِأَبِيهِ لَأَسۡتَغۡفِرَنَّ لَكَ وَمَآ أَمۡلِكُ لَكَ مِنَ ٱللَّهِ مِن شَىۡءٍ۬*ۖ رَّبَّنَا عَلَيۡكَ تَوَكَّلۡنَا وَإِلَيۡكَ أَنَبۡنَا وَإِلَيۡكَ ٱلۡمَصِيرُ (٤)

"Indeed there is for you an excellent example in the Prophet Ibraaheem and those with him, when they said to their people: Indeed we are free from you and whatever you worship besides Allaah; we have rejected you, and there has arisen between us and you enmity and hatred, until you believe and worship Allaah alone." [Soorah al-Mumtahanah 60:4].

فَمَن يَكۡفُرۡ بِٱلطَّـٰغُوتِ وَيُؤۡمِنۢ بِٱللَّهِ فَقَدِ ٱسۡتَمۡسَكَ بِٱلۡعُرۡوَةِ ٱلۡوُثۡقَىٰ لَا ٱنفِصَامَ لَهَا*ۗ وَٱللَّهُ سَمِيعٌ عَلِيمٌ (٢٥٦)

"Whosoever rejects at-taaghoot and believes in Allaah, has grasped the most trustworthy hand-hold that never breaks." [Soorah al-Baqarah 2:256].

سُوۡرَةُ الاٴعرَاف
ٱتَّبِعُواْ مَآ أُنزِلَ إِلَيۡكُم مِّن رَّبِّكُمۡ وَلَا تَتَّبِعُواْ مِن دُونِهِۦۤ أَوۡلِيَآءَ*ۗ قَلِيلاً۬ مَّا تَذَكَّرُونَ (٣)

"Follow that which has been revealed from your Lord, and do not follow any friends and helpers other than Him." [Soorah al-A'raaf 7:3].

[Gulbabo]

[QUOTE=شمله ور خراساني;443215]LOL. So you are an American Muslim.[quote]

yes i am. Muslims are every where in the world. there are muslim converts here in America who have been in America for generations. so what should they start calling themselves now? Arabs? Of course muslim americans.

Here is the logic of an American Muslim:

at least i have some logic. you have none and you don't make sense.

Munafiq is someone who says he is a Muslim when he is among Muslims and when he is among kaafirs he says he is a kaafir:

Munafiq has many other 'nishani' too. this is not the only one. and no, muslim americans (at least the ones i know) don't say they are kafir when they meet their kaffir country men.

Being an honest citizen who does not breaks the laws of the land does not mean being loyal to a kaafir state and being proud of a kaafir country.

what do you mean by kafir country? show me a muslim country first. Where is your muslim country so i can go move there. Saudi Arabia? yeah don't make me start on that.

muslim majority country does nto mean its a muslim country. you are not making any sense. non of the countries in the world have laws according to Sharia. if you know of such a 'muslim country' please do tell me, i will move there. All the muslim majority countries (same as non-muslim countries) are run by bunch of crooks, bunch of parasites... what difference does it make where we live? we live under the same parasite government everywhere.

But according to American Muslims you have to have blind loyalty to the state otherwise you are not a good citizen. Looks allot like Communism.

According to an American Muslim disassociating yourself from the kaafir state, its kufr laws and kaafir identity is working against the government. LOL]

It is harmful to say that you are Muslim and you are not part of a kaafir nation and you do not share its values and beliefs? LOL

again nonsense. you are speaking of muslim americans as if you know each and everyone of them. you don't, don't speak on everyone's behalf.

loyalty to state? what does that mean? not blowing up schools here means they are loyal to the state? not become suicide bombers here mean they agree with the government? if you mean the muslim americans here should turn to terrorism and start blowing up places here to voice their disagreement with the government, then you are dillusional. no one is going to do that here... Muslims anywhere in the world should not have such sick mentality.

Who told you to reside in Western countries anyways? And if you do, who says you have to claim benefits?

well unless you can direct me to a perfect Islamically run Eastern country, I will stay here, and Claim whatever I want.

You have to have hatred in your heart for kaafirs and their kufr. Because a kaafir is an enemy of Allah. Who-ever does not hate kufr lacks imaan.

You can not spread Islam with such hatred in your heart and mind... a heart filled with Love of Allah swt has no place for hatred for His creation.

anyways, i don't wish to argue anymore. i said what i have to say. i don't like repeating myself... there is nothing you can say to make me hate people.

[شمله ور خراساني]

yes i am. Muslims are every where in the world. there are muslim converts here in America who have been in America for generations. so what should they start calling themselves now? Arabs? Of course muslim americans.

We are talking about loyalty and patriotism. American Muslims are American patriots. They are loyal to the country and are proud of the fact that they are American.

at least i have some logic. you have none and you don't make sense.

Very convincing.

Munafiq has many other 'nishani' too. this is not the only one. and no, muslim americans (at least the ones i know) don't say they are kafir when they meet their kaffir country men.

I gave you a definition of what generally is understood when we talk about a Munafiq. Other "nishani's of nifaq concern likewise, imaan and aqeedah.

I did not say that American Muslims are Munafiqs. Dont be paranoid.

what do you mean by kafir country?

A country which was created, established and run by kaafirs where kaafirs are the absolute majority and kufr is the identity and image of this place.

show me a muslim country first.

Every country where there is an absolute Muslim majority and muslim run the affairs of the country is a Muslim country.

Where is your muslim country so i can go move there.

Afghanistan is a Muslim country.

Saudi Arabia? yeah don't make me start on that.

Saudi Arabia is a Muslim country. But it is not Islamic since it is not governed by Sharia. Similarly there are many muslim countries. But there is no Islamic country.

muslim majority country does nto mean its a muslim country. you are not making any sense.

I am making sense. You are being paranoid like a typical american.

non of the countries in the world have laws according to Sharia.

True. Thats because they are not Islamic countries. Muslim refers to Muslim as people and individuals. Islamic refers to the nature of the country and how it is governed and ruled.

if you know of such a 'muslim country' please do tell me, i will move there.

Some parts of Afghanistan is "Islamic".

All the muslim majority countries (same as non-muslim countries) are run by bunch of crooks, bunch of parasites...

True. No reason to take pride in America as land of the free and home of the brave.

what difference does it make where we live?

No difference at all. It just sounds silly when a Muslim is proud of AMerica and promotes America and says to be patriotic.

we live under the same parasite government everywhere.

True. Thats why we have to have enmity to the parasites. And not be patriotic about it.

again nonsense. you are speaking of muslim americans as if you know each and everyone of them. you don't, don't speak on everyone's behalf.

Read my original post. dont be such a drama queen.

loyalty to state? what does that mean?

It means supporting its policies even though it goes against Islam.

not blowing up schools here means they are loyal to the state?

Americans are the ones blowing up schools. Your comments sound like you are properly brainwashed by American media. Miskin.

not become suicide bombers here mean they agree with the government?

Miskin.

if you mean the muslim americans here should turn to terrorism and start blowing up places here to voice their disagreement with the government, then you are dillusional.

I think it is evident who is dillusional. Your love and blind loyalty to America makes you say this. You are frustrated. May Allah guide you.

no one is going to do that here... Muslims anywhere in the world should not have such sick mentality.

Neither should anyone have the sickness you are suffering.

well unless you can direct me to a perfect Islamically run Eastern country, I will stay here, and Claim whatever I want.

Miskin.

You can not spread Islam with such hatred in your heart and mind... a heart filled with Love of Allah swt has no place for hatred for His creation.

anyways, i don't wish to argue anymore. i said what i have to say. i don't like repeating myself... there is nothing you can say to make me hate people.

Allah orders us to have enmity for kuffar. The Sahaba did not love and hug with kaafirs. Yet they spread Islam all over the world.

You are telling you know better than Allah how to spread Islam.

[ScimitarXEdge]

Gulbabo if you look up the actual definition of hypocrisy, then being anti patriotic while living in America, logically speaking does not necessarily make someone a hypocrite

Hypocrisy is when someone acts contrary to their beliefs or claims; If someone's beliefs hold a specific motive then there's no hypocrisy.

It's actually more likely however that patriotism towards America is hypocrisy as opposed to anti patriotism; because patriotism pretends to oppose the system but really wants to perpetuate the system. Where as Anti Patriotism works to end the system entirely.

people who use patriotism as an appeal are essentially justifying being mentally enslaved.

[faye]

gulbabo has explained herself perfectly. you are just crapping on, now. hypocrisy would be when you hate someone just because they are kafir. i am kafir and i don't hate muslims and i disagree with the wars against muslims and the western interference in muslim countries.
however, hating the people you are living with and learning from would be hypocrisy because to do this you would have to be putting on a very fake front, scimitarx.
all systems and countries and individuals need improvement. we all have to work for a better system and lefestyle and mentality, not just kafirs, not just muslims, all of us.

[IamDZJ]

^ not being a muslim doesn't necessary equal to being an kafir/infidel.
i do not feel misjudged or betrayed by anyone in canada. if my patriotism to it deems me as someone with a "weird mentality" then i will gladly take that title.
you can shoot me in the eye but i would not move to live in america.

[Manzareh]

[Manzareh]

Gulbabo, how did you come out with this statistic that most muslims live off benefits?

[Karachi]

lets just say, i am glad i live in Canada

[شمله ور خراساني]

gulbabo has explained herself perfectly. you are just crapping on, now. hypocrisy would be when you hate someone just because they are kafir. i am kafir and i don't hate muslims and i disagree with the wars against muslims and the western interference in muslim countries.
however, hating the people you are living with and learning from would be hypocrisy because to do this you would have to be putting on a very fake front, scimitarx.
all systems and countries and individuals need improvement. we all have to work for a better system and lefestyle and mentality, not just kafirs, not just muslims, all of us.

You are among Muslims here on PF. You have plenty opportunity to learn about Islam and accept it.

What is preventing you from becoming a servant of Allah?

And be honest.

[IamDZJ]

Your patriotism to it isnt weird; but it's very spineless, cowardly, and reflects the mentality of a Uncle Tom/House Slave.

I would gladly shoot you in the eye if it was within my power to do so; We need to purge traitors from our society because that's why we're in the mess we are in, in the first place.

It's funny how you assume I still consider you as a human being let alone someone with whom I hope to share a "society". Here is a suggestion, why dont you take your "society" and walk it to hell with you. I will have me nothing to do with the likes of your "society" so flatter yourself not.