Once at dinner with Mullah Umar...

[khushal]

Ok I didn't deny that though? I am saying that your portrayal is superficial;

a.) the Taliban TOO were in power by foreign support
b.) The U.S. just disabled the Taliban militarily; which lead to Pashtuns themselves uprising against the Taliban; this shows the Taliban weren't locally supported but there by force.

it werent pashtuns that rose against the taliban. It was the old system of warlords who controlled the country prior to taliban that sprang up again.
The warlord in our area that was driven out by the taliban without a fight came back to our area also without a fight. He fled with his men when heard the taliban were coming and he couldnt challenge them, and he came back when he heard the taliban had dissapeared. there was no real uprising in the pashtun areas against the taliban just like their was no real resistance against the taliban when they were making their way towards Kabul. The only resistance came in mazar and panjshir and when they were broken up there by US bombardment, they whole movement dissapeared and the old guard returned.

[Daruish]

this is how Karzai came to power, on the backs of foreigners because they did not have any afghans that would fight for them.

C. Mil Commander Ahmad Shah Massoud Captured Pakistani Taliban & Army Personnel in Afghanistan 1997 - YouTube

Members of Pakistani Army...They are from Shikarpoor region in Pakistan...they were runing Taliban war machine against in Afghanistan.

[Daruish]

So why are here then?

Iran ta druma no, warsara Parsi kshe wazhaghezha chi zargai di khwash shi.

De mizh watan prezhda se yaw gharib Paktikawal ta di kor ba derkawam.

Have no idea what your saying.... im here to mind-f pakis!

[randolph85]

why would the paki army need to send their own troops to pose as talib foot soldiers when there were countless numbers of civilians fresh out of madrassas to join the taliban?

the taliban and the northern alliance both sought help from neighbors to engage in their civil war. the only difference is that the taliban could convince pashtuns over the durand line to join then, whereas the northern alliance had absolutely nothing in common with their brothers beyond the borders of afghanistan.

[RevolutionThroughReason]

it werent pashtuns that rose against the taliban. It was the old system of warlords who controlled the country prior to taliban that sprang up again.
The warlord in our area that was driven out by the taliban without a fight came back to our area also without a fight. He fled with his men when heard the taliban were coming and he couldnt challenge them, and he came back when he heard the taliban had dissapeared. there was no real uprising in the pashtun areas against the taliban just like their was no real resistance against the taliban when they were making their way towards Kabul. The only resistance came in mazar and panjshir and when they were broken up there by US bombardment, they whole movement dissapeared and the old guard returned.

It was read the source below which talks about disenchanted Pashtuns forming a southern alliance and rising up.

[RevolutionThroughReason]

Randolph and Darius are both right on different levels. And so is Khushal, but for Khushal he turns a blind eye to how the Taliban gained power with foreign help, that's why his argument flunks.

[Hakim Khan Urgonai]

Have no idea what your saying.... im here to mind-f pakis!

By making an ass of yourself, aghaye irooni.

[Catya Sher]

If the story told about the soup is not exactly true,
nonetheless, it could WELL HAVE BEEN the general mode
of Mullah Omar to refuse things which might make him feel
ashamed of showing any grandeur when the people were suffering so badly.
And still are.

So I would believe the spirit of the tale, anyway, as
revealing of Mullah Omar's essential humility of character.

He probably took out the Cloak of the Prophet simply because
he felt that Allah [swt] wanted him to do that.

Otherwise he would not have done so.

About mansions, I saw a video interview of that dreadfully corrupt relative of Karzai who was later assassinated.

His house was ridiculously ostentatious.
Even the Western reporter, I think it was that Australian Journeyman character - was making insinuations about how this governor had acquired the money
for such a monstrosity.

By contrast, the pictures of the compound purported to be Mullah Omar's
looks tasteful. Pretty pictures, harmonious lines, nothing
extravagant.

The other one was garish.
Worse, that building exuded a creepy, dangerous feeling

This one feels homey and nice.

Well I am looking forward to Mullah Omar's Eid address ; I was intending
to look at PF only at that time to see what he says.

[IamDZJ]

Garl friend mullah Omar should know it all.

[faye]

lol @ catya the mindreader. i thought mullah omar is hiding/luxuriating in pakistan whilst the innocent civilians of afghanistan are suffering.

[khushal]

Randolph and Darius are both right on different levels. And so is Khushal, but for Khushal he turns a blind eye to how the Taliban gained power with foreign help, that's why his argument flunks.

I have never denied that Pakistan and the Sunni Arab block gave support to the Taliban. Both the NA and the Taliban was receiving aid from foreign powers, the difference between the Taliban and the NA is that the NA could not control all of Afghanistan, they had a hard time administering Kabul and violence against civilians especially women was harsh, the land was basically lawless. Where as the Taliban controlled more than 90% of Afghanistan, gave the society a sense of safety and security.
For some reason the Taliban became more extreme than their initial start. My guess is the embargo after the African embassy bombings had a negative impact on the Taliban leadership where the extremist elements of the Taliban had more sway.

But historically, those that came on the backs of foreign troops have never really succeeded in afghanistan. The Brits adventure in afghanistan is the best lesson. Notice how they were at peace with abdur rahman, he did not come to power on the backs of foreign troops, they paid him and he was cool. Nadir shah was the same way. he also did not come to power on the backs of foreign troops and he and his son zahir shah rule had the longest peace Afghanistan had ever seen.

[khushal]

It was read the source below which talks about disenchanted Pashtuns forming a southern alliance and rising up.

The southern alliance was not real. There was no real pashtun uprising, it was extremely insignificant. Kandahar was bombed really hard and the anti taliban group hardly had any fighting men, the US had to set up a base in the desert named camp rhino.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/War_in_Afghanistan_%282001%E2%80%93present%29#Consolidation:_the_taking_of_Kandahar

By the end of November, Kandahar, the Taliban's birthplace, was its last remaining stronghold, and was coming under increasing pressure. Nearly 3,000 tribal fighters, led by Hamid Karzai, a loyalist of the former Afghan king, and Gul Agha Sherzai, the governor of Kandahar before the Taliban seized power, pressured Taliban forces from the east and cut off the northern Taliban supply lines to Kandahar. The threat of the Northern Alliance loomed in the north and northeast.
Meanwhile, nearly 1,000 Marines, ferried in by CH-53E Super Stallion helicopters and C-130s, set up a Forward Operating Base known as Camp Rhino in the desert south of Kandahar on 25 November. This was the coalition's first strategic foothold in Afghanistan, and was the stepping stone to establishing other operating bases. The first significant combat involving U.S. ground forces occurred a day after Rhino was captured when 15 armored vehicles approached the base and were attacked by helicopter gunships, destroying many of them. Meanwhile, the airstrikes continued to pound Taliban positions inside the city, where Mullah Omar was holed up.

the 3000 tribal fighters in the anti taliban group is even an exaggeration.
It was mostly US gunships and bombardment with special forces that did 95% of the work.
Where was this southern alliance when Operation anacanda took place in paktya. It took thousands of US troops to fight the last remaining taliban fighters.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Anaconda

[RevolutionThroughReason]

The reference you cite doesn't mean Pashtuns uprising against the Taliban didn't happen it just refers to specific segment of it.

[khushal]

The reference you cite doesn't mean Pashtuns uprising against the Taliban didn't happen it just refers to specific segment of it.

there were pashtun leaders who tried to create a coalition like abdul haq who was executed, he was the only brave one that went in alone with no US special forces. but you cant organize anything in a hostile environment that quickly. It is impossible.
The taliban just disappeared into the mountains and into paksitan when they heard the northern line was broken and kabul was taken, and the old guard just took their place.

[RevolutionThroughReason]

I see ....again, doesn't nullify the claim only demonstrate there existed certain segments but doesn't necessarily account for them all.