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i am not trying to stir up any religious animosity, simply because i don't care about political divisions but was curious as to what the shias think about the Quran and its compilation. as i understand it, abu bakr was first to bring together the complete quran and uthman then finalized the book as we know it today. since these 2 figures are demonized by shias, i would think they would not take their words and deeds as legitimate. so do the shias have an alternate history of the books compilation or do they believe that these 2 men put together the quran that they believe in today?
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There are people today who think that admitting God’s absolute greatness decreases the value and importance of humans in the creation, as if God and mankind are rivals competing in greatness and power. Meanwhile I feel that whenever our perception of God’s greatness increases, with it we become greater, because we are the creation of a great God.
Sayyid Qutb -
Shias in general believe that it is complete, but the rawaafidh do not. In important books like Usul al Kafi, it is mentioned. Nuri Tabrisi wrote a book on it called Faslul Kitab fee Tahreef Kitab Rabbul Arbab, with numerous traditions and sayings of the classic kibaar ulama of shias agreeing with those views. (of tahreef in the Qur'aan).
The shia may claim that it is complete as it was compiled during the khilafah of Abu Bakr Sadiq en Uthman ibn Affan ra, but their important books and aqeedah contradict that it is complete. -
most of shias belive that quran is incomplete and companions was changed some
iyats ..and one of the biggest shias scholar wrote a book to prove that our quran is
incomplete and the real quran is with mahdi in the cave.Comment
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I would advise you gentlemen not to bash on shias or stir anything regarding them as there are no shias on this forum. And if I were to roll up my sleeves and open up the books...half of you would get 10x more confused than you already are...
Its best you just follow your parents and your local sheikhs sermons ...and stop splitting hair and asking questions to which you are not ready to have the answers for.
Salam.Comment
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Then I would be like you guys ....Originally posted by Timbaktuwhat if your parents are commies who follow Najeeb and your imam gets his funding from saudi?
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Originally posted by Timbaktu
Gar Jahanum Sakhtam Ferdaws Ham MesazamatComment
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Originally posted by Timbaktuyour wish
jokes aside.
If you dare, with 20 questions I can make you bare as the day you were born of all the things you have pride in.Comment
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There is /was a Shia, Haider Bangash 2.0 - probably
not checking in these days or he would have voiced
something too.
That's interesting about the commentary in the cave with the Mahdi -
I've been to that cave in Samarra, Iraq when I was traveling there.
I just found the picture of it.Comment
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Originally posted by Timbaktu
What would you die for?Comment
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we lost all these shias due to Sangar Jaan........na mara admin da lasa
ma kayy dumra zor shta chay za tata spak oyam ?..awo ta da Pf na obasam
da tol plain wo....
awo yaaaaaaaar za khpala da topic ka barkha na akhlam.....Haider hem nashta
ao LZ ka rashey kha ba wi........
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Any problem, uncle?Originally posted by Alchemist View PostGar Jahanum Sakhtam Ferdaws Ham MesazamatComment
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Bro, that was not just guessing. What I said was, the shi'as in general believe it is complete. That is, because the shi'as are unaware of the creed which is in their books of authority. It is true that the classic shia scholars claim, and even today they claim that there has been tahreef in de Qur'aan and the real one will be brought by their Mahdi.Originally posted by TimbaktuComment
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I believe Tabrasi, Sudooq and co have applied taqqiya.Originally posted by Timbaktu
'Enumerating the distortions and omissions of this sort (from the present Quran) would become laborious and it will disclose what Taqiyyah requires me not to disclose: the good qualities of Allah's friends and the vices of His enemies. (AI-Ihtijaj by Tibrisi: 1:254)
I have made some print screens from Al Kafi
The first two narrations are from Al Kafi. I have come across many ''narrations'' and bizarre chapters, but I think it is enough.
This list was compiled by Tabrisi:
1. Shaikh Ali bin Ibrahim al Qumi
2. Shaykh Kulayni
3. Sayyid Muhsin al-kazmi
4. Allama Majisi
5. Muhammad bin Hasan al Safar
6. Muhammad bin Ibrahim al Numan , Sudent of Kulayni
7. Sad bin Abdullah al Qummi
8. Sayyid Ali bin Ahmad al Kufi
9. Muhammad bin Masud al Ayyashi
10. Furat bin Ibrahim al Kufi
11. Muhammad bin Abbas al-Mahiyar
12. Shaykhul Azam Muhammad bin Muhammad bin Numan al Mufeed
13. Najashi
14. Abu Sahal Ismail bin Ali bin Ishaq al Nawbakht
15. Shaykh Abu Muhammad Hasan
16. Shaikh Abu Ishaq bin Nawbakht
17. Shaikh Ishaq al Katib
18. Shaykh Abul Qasim Hasnain bin Ruh bin Abu Bahr al Nawbakhti
19. Hajib bin al-Layth bin Al Sarah
20. Shaykh Fadhal bin Shadhan
21. Shaykh Muhammad bin Hasan al Shaybani
22. Shaykh Ahmad bin Muhammad bin Khalid al Barqi
23. Shaykh Muhammad bin Khalid al Barqi
24. Shaykh Ali bin Hasan bin Fadhal
25. Shaykh Muhammad bin Hasan
26. Shaykh Ahmad bin Muhmamad bin Siyyar
27. Shaykh Hasan bin Sulayman al Hilli
28. Shaykh Muhammad bin Abbas bin Ali bin Marwan al Mahiyar , Ibn Hijam
29. Abu Tahir Abdul Wahid bin Umar al Qummi
These scholars, among many others believed in Tahreef, as in, changing of recitation and ruling.
Not only the books testify, but also the Tafaasir, such as ayaashi and saafi, Al Qummi, amongst others.
Shaykh Mufid was also amongst those who believed in Tahreef, since he claimed in his book that there are no additions in the present Qur'aan, but there are deletions and the complete one is with the ''Mahdi''. You can read it in his book called Masaa'il as Sarawiyyah page 78-81
According to Nuri at tabrisi, Kulaini and his teacher believed that the Qur'aan was altered. It should not come as a surprise.
If a shi'a tells me that he believes that the Qur'aan is complete, I am happy for him, he or she is not corrupted by the Kufr which is in their books. But to claim that there isn't such a thing in their aqeedah about the Qur'aan in the light of their classical scholars and their books of fiqh, they are dead wrong, or they are using Taqiyya. (lying in such a case).
Furthermore, it is a fact that their creed and Imams have made takfir on most of the Sahaba, so how come they adhere to a book, which was collected, memorized and written by (according to them) apostates?
If you take their aqeedah into account and try having a conversation on any subject, the shia Naql will surely contradict our Aql.
They also claim that there imams know al ghayb, and are infallible. This also contradicts with the Qur'aan, the whole concept of imamah is nowhere to find, and yet, you see them propagating it. They also have a narration, in which they are advised to recite this Qur'aan, till their hidden imam who is into hiding, brings the real one.
wsalamLast edited by Guest; 04-14-2011, 07:57 PM.Comment
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^ Their imams are the progeny of the Holy Prophet peace be upon him.
Apparently you believe that the Holy Prophet, peace be upon him, himself was also not infallible.
In any case, it is even accepted amongst prominent sunni scholars that the Quran was divided into the chapters that it has been arbitrarily. Certain parts of the Quran, were revealed in different occasions but merged into the same chapter. It is even widely accepted that Khalifa Uthman (a.s) separated Surah le-ilafi-Quraish from another chapter and made it its own chapter just because he was also form Quraish and wanted it to be distinct.
You keep saying "Their imam"...al mahdi is also your imam.Comment
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