Salafis, Wahabis, Arabs contribution to civilization and humanity

[Toramana]

Suicide bombing is an Arab, Salafi, Wahabi innovation that is going to be part ofsome Muslims lore and core value...

YouTube - Exclusive Quetta-Meezan Chock Blast CCTV footage 3rd sep 2010 GeoTv

YouTube - Suicide Bombing in Quetta Kills Dozens

[Toramana]

YouTube - Suicide bomber caught on CCTV, dozens die in Pakistan attacks

[randolph85]

suicide bombings are actually a tamil innovation.

[Wrayun]

This has nothing to do with Arabs. I know plenty of Arabs that want nothing to do with Salafiya, Wahabiya and their Munafiqiya.

[BarakzaiAbdali]

Unfortunately wrorra,

You are out of touch with your own humanity. Do you know where police investigators look for evidence in murders (especially when a man murders a woman?) Under the finger nails? Do you know why? Its because they know they will find DNA evidence under the murdered finger nails. Why is this relevant? It is because that insaan that was fighting for his/her life utilized the last line of defense and any weaponry (in this case their bare hands) in order to survive. In such instances it was scratching and clawing at the intruder.

So by this same token, asymmetric warfare lends itself to such practices. When your enemy has laser targeted drones (aka high resolution weaponry) and still kills about 1-2 civilians in a strike, your lower resolution weaponry (IED and the suicide vest) will inevitably cause this same effect. However, the Taliban are fighting using Korean War era weaponry.

The balance being struck is whether such practices turn the populace against you. The populace fuels the insurgency. Thus far the data appears to show that the populace may realize the Taliban inadvertantly cause more civilian deaths with low resolution weaponry, but they still blame the presence of foreigners as the leading instigator. If such practices were to reverse this preception then it would fall out of favor.

Here is a quote about the same phenomena and its lethal psychological effect in Cuba under the Batista regime. This commentary focused on the scene in the Godfather movie trilogy when Michael Corleone realized that the American backed Batista regime would inevitably fall when the people were willing to take their own life:

"In the film, Michael was in pre-Castro Havana to "divide up the spoils" of Cuba with a bunch of other, thinly disguised, "legit" corporate criminals ("United" Telephone and Telegraph, etc.) They even carve up a symbolic Cuba cake at their meeting.

Then when he's taking a cab through town, he sees a suicide bomber blow up some police/troops. This makes a profound impression upon him, seeing how the rebels are willing to DIE for their cause. Leading him to hedge on committing his full financial investment. Shortly afterwards, the Batista regime falls and everyone has to flee the country."

[Toramana]

This has nothing to do with Arabs. I know plenty of Arabs that want nothing to do with Salafiya, Wahabiya and their Munafiqiya.

It is fundamentally an Arab tool for which they found justification in Islam...What is making the suicide bombers kill the Shiits by the way? Is not it religious brands Arab brand and Persian brand stricking at each other....?

[ScimitarXEdge]

In south India, in the late 11th century, the local Kulasekhara kingdom had special suicidal squads to fight against their mighty neighbors, the Cholas. These Nair warriors were specially trained in so called Kalaris. These Nair race later transformed as the rulers of the region, and in war festivals like Mamankam, they were still in use aganist the Zamorin rulers of Calicut.

In the late 17th century, Qing official Yu Yonghe recorded that injured Dutch soldiers fighting against Koxinga's forces for control of Taiwan in 1661 would use gunpowder to blow up both themselves and their opponents rather than be taken prisoner.[1] However, the Chinese observer may have confused such suicidal tactics with the standard Dutch military practice of undermining and blowing up positions recently overrun by the enemy which almost cost Koxinga his life during the siege.[2]

During the Belgian Revolution, Dutch Lieutenant Jan van Speijk detonated his own ship in the harbour of Antwerp to prevent its capture by the Belgians.

[ScimitarXEdge]

Actually Randolph it was the Chinese who had the first recorded suicide bombing.

[Toramana]

But in reality it is an Arab weapon with justification found for it in Islam ....(Arab brand)

[BarakzaiAbdali]

It is fundamentally an Arab tool for which they found justification in Islam...What is making the suicide bombers kill the Shiits by the way? Is not it religious brands Arab brand and Persian brand stricking at each other....?

Without doing a cut and paste job, please provide the justification. At most, the best justification I have seen is the hadith from Bukhari where a Sahabaa allowed himself to be hoisted over the high walls of a garden in which Musaylamah Al Kadhaab's men were hiding. He knew this was nearly certain death but that it would accomplish him being able to serve as a human trojan horse and open the garden to the army of Abu Bakr Sadiq. That Sahabaa actually survived the mission.

Now, take for instance the Khost Operation in which that Jordanian physican struck a massive blow against Jordanian and US CIA operations. He eliminted 7 CIA agents and 2 key jordanian agents and likely hit a civilian or two. Any smart general whether it be Petreus (who is not smart by the way) or Wesley Clark would argue that the strike was a huge blow to the US efforts.

Your attempts to delegitimize strikes like the Khost Operations are dismissed by anyone with a modicum of reality based living. Why would anyone fighting your ideology and the occupation cede to your line of thinking as it would eliminate such successful tactical strikes as the Khost Operation.

However, the debate does become a real one when it involves targets in crowded civilian areas. Even then, the US itself has learned the hard lessons of war and stated unequivically that it made a huge mistake in not striking Usama Bin Ladin in the late 1990s in a civilian heavy mosque when it could have done so. The US plans on not making that same mistake should he be sighted again.

[Wrayun]

It is fundamentally an Arab tool for which they found justification in Islam...What is making the suicide bombers kill the Shiits by the way? Is not it religious brands Arab brand and Persian brand stricking at each other....?

Actually it's not an Arab tool. It is tactic used and invented by the Tamil Tigers. The Salafiya, Wahabiya & their Munafiqiya, while selling haram OIL to Amreekiya, and Israeliya, worked with CIA-iya to create monsters like al-Qeadiya to further their strategic dept.

Suicide bombers are used by politicians more than religious clerics...for example the assassination of Benazir Bhutto. That had nothing to do with religion, but politics. Religion is just a catalyst.

[Toramana]

Without doing a cut and paste job, please provide the justification. At most, the best justification I have seen is the hadith from Bukhari where a Sahabaa allowed himself to be hoisted over the high walls of a garden in which Musaylamah Al Kadhaab's men were hiding. He knew this was nearly certain death but that it would accomplish him being able to serve as a human trojan horse and open the garden to the army of Abu Bakr Sadiq. That Sahabaa actually survived the mission.

Now, take for instance the Khost Operation in which that Jordanian physican struck a massive blow against Jordanian and US CIA operations. He eliminted 7 CIA agents and 2 key jordanian agents and likely hit a civilian or two. Any smart general whether it be Petreus (who is not smart by the way) or Wesley Clark would argue that the strike was a huge blow to the US efforts.

Your attempts to delegitimize strikes like the Khost Operations are dismissed by anyone with a modicum of reality based living. Why would anyone fighting your ideology and the occupation cede to your line of thinking as it would eliminate such successful tactical strikes as the Khost Operation.

However, the debate does become a real one when it involves targets in crowded civilian areas. Even then, the US itself has learned the hard lessons of war and stated unequivically that it made a huge mistake in not striking Usama Bin Ladin in the late 1990s in a civilian heavy mosque when it could have done so. The US plans on not making that same mistake should he be sighted again.

Do you approve of suicide bombing? I know you are a follower of Usama Bin Laden and Abdullah Azam and have pan-Islamist perspective on everything but I want your personal opinion about this?

[Toramana]

Actually it's not an Arab tool. It is tactic used and invented by the Tamil Tigers. The Salafiya, Wahabiya & their Munafiqiya, while selling haram OIL to Amreekiya, and Israeliya, worked with CIA-iya to create monsters like al-Qeadiya to further their strategic dept.

Suicide bombers are used by politicians more than religious clerics...for example the assassination of Benazir Bhutto. That had nothing to do with religion, but politics. Religion is just a catalyst.

Yes, now come up with that excuse for something which has found justification in Islam mostly Arab brand...But I know your sensitivities.

[ScimitarXEdge]

if that was true, we wouldn't find all these other ethnic groups and nationalities also doing it in the past.

[BarakzaiAbdali]

Do you approve of suicide bombing? I know you are a follower of Usama Bin Laden and Abdullah Azam and have pan-Islamist perspective on everything but I want your personal opinion about this?

Toramana when you are going to understand that your 1-2 strategy does little to debunk logic. Simply labeling someone as Pan Islamic does not diminish the fact that the they see a blue sky.

Regarding Bin ladin and Aazzam, I am hardly a follower... more a student of security studies in my spare time and avidly interested in understanding a threat versus simply dismissing and underestimating it. Moreover, Abdullah Azaam did not allow suicide operations.

My personal opinions are practical. I look at it outside of the issue of controllabes. That is why I cited the usage of such tactics by the anti Batista Cuban rebels that fought under another well known insurgent (Che Guevara).

I think that if you have two groups of people armed with ideology (e.g. the Americans armed with the defend the homeland ideology and the Mujahideen armed with the theological drive) warfare is going to be executed with all sorts of strategies.

I am merely pointing out that America's strategy of attempting to fight a populocentric war with COIN is a failing strategy... they have to realize that it takes unadulterated fire power to tame Afghanistan. By that same token, the Mujahideen will likely utilize assymetric targets should they be outgunned. For me to tell them that they cannot utilize their low resolution weaponry is as foolish as telling Che Guevara that he ought to have stopped fighting for Latin American independence.

Now, let us say you had two armies and one army made a custom of killing livestock after it actually secured a village... or of shooting all people above the age of 60... I would certainly not say that this in any way an effective or moral strategy.

This tactic on the other hand, specifically in the case of the Khost Operation:

http://www.time.com/time/nation/arti...952531,00.html

resulted in a resounding success. It would utterly stupid to strategically bind the hand of a guerilla force utilizing 1950s era weaponry against a satellite GPS guided military arsenal. Just as it is utterly stupid to tell the Americans that their marines do a better job building schools instead of killing the enemy.