Canadian Muslim professor: 'If you want sharia law, go back to the hellhole country

[emkhan]

I am propagating here some self evident truths or axioms which is democracy, human rights, modern education, development and prosperity. What argument is needed for these universally declared systems, values and rights. For this I dont need any complex logic or arguments. Yes secularism can be controversial but for that I have presented hundreds of valid arguments and will present many more.

My goal is simple to see the Pashtunland as we see any of the G8 country. If some one is against development and democracy then we have diametrical differences but my audience is the one who want to spend thousands of dollars to reach one of these G8 country. I want this G8 to be their own homeland.

Long live development, democracy and human rights.

Our religion is Islam, culture and society is Pashtunwali, economics is free market economy and state controlled capitalism, our politics is democracy and our goal is science and technology and our philosophy is liberalism.

If more arguments are needed then we can have further separate discussions on each one of them where the opposite to the above may be presented which may be Islamism, political Islam, Violent extremism, Communism.dictatorship, monarchy or any thing else.

my dear, you are looking at our society with eyes of westerners and you know that that type of islam is not acceptable to us at any cost.
What we need is a plitical islam, where economy is based on pure islamic principles, pure islalmic judicial system where there is only justice and equality, where the society is modest society and not westernise, where education is not for sale for the upbringing of a well educated nation and where every individual is a model for the world, where the media is for a good purpose and not just spreading false news and dirty things.
that is what an islalmlic state is.
you should go back to your country and ask your own people that what they want. for surely they want this type of system.

[Badlun]

my dear, you are looking at our society with eyes of westerners and you know that that type of islam is not acceptable to us at any cost.
What we need is a plitical islam, where economy is based on pure islamic principles, pure islalmic judicial system where there is only justice and equality, where the society is modest society and not westernise, where education is not for sale for the upbringing of a well educated nation and where every individual is a model for the world, where the media is for a good purpose and not just spreading false news and dirty things.
that is what an islalmlic state is.
you should go back to your country and ask your own people that what they want. for surely they want this type of system.

Was there any such type of system in the last 1400 years.
Whats wrong in democracy, development, human rights capitalism, science and technology, secularism, liberalism. Are these not compatible with Islam. Are Muslims not living happily in developed world including USA. They can practise their religion as well as are having development, democracy, human rights etc.

They are happy and successful thats why the whole Muslim world want to migrate there and not vice versa. Its such a indisputable fact which can be corroborated by all who are there in the West and those who want to go there. Even not only want but spend thousands of dollars just to reach there by legal or illegal way.

[emkhan]

Was there any such type of system in the last 1400 years.
Whats wrong in democracy, development, human rights capitalism, science and technology, secularism, liberalism. Are these not compatible with Islam. Are Muslims not living happily in developed world including USA. They can practise their religion as well as are having development, democracy, human rights etc.

They are happy and successful thats why the whole Muslim world want to migrate there and not vice versa. Its such a indisputable fact which can be corroborated by all who are there in the West and those who want to go there. Even not only want but spend thousands of dollars just to reach there by legal or illegal way.

dear we have no problem with development, science and technology and all that except secularism. because all above sub systems you have mentioned in islam already so why should we waste our energies in adopting those so called system. if we have all those in islam why should we not adopt it from islam? actually your problem is with the political islam. your problem is social islam. because you dont want seggregation but you are inspired from the ugly system of america. a system where the crime ratio is highest in the world. the so called champion of democracy, human rights and peace is struggling in afghanistan hehehehe with guns....
my dear dont be inspired with that dirty system. if you are a true pukhtun you should have your own identity and your own system based on our own values. pa pukhto ke yo matal dai way "che pa prado ghwalo tizona ma achawa"

[BarakzaiAbdali]

Was there any such type of system in the last 1400 years.
Whats wrong in democracy, development, human rights capitalism, science and technology, secularism, liberalism. Are these not compatible with Islam. Are Muslims not living happily in developed world including USA. They can practise their religion as well as are having development, democracy, human rights etc.

They are happy and successful thats why the whole Muslim world want to migrate there and not vice versa. Its such a indisputable fact which can be corroborated by all who are there in the West and those who want to go there. Even not only want but spend thousands of dollars just to reach there by legal or illegal way.

Wrong, per the Bernard Lewis quote and per the reign of Omar Khattab. However, we will let Toramana, your leader answer you from now on:

Quote:
Originally Posted by osho
Lets have a meaningful discussion on neoconservatism and interventionism in relation to Pashtuns with the spirit of mutual sharing and learning and in the larger interest of Pashtuns and the world and not just to win the argument on rebuttals and argument for the sake of argument.

Quote:
Originally Posted by osho
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Zwana, you and BarakzaiAbdali are suffering from same delusional sickness, one hoping that US will withdraw from the world affairs and become a kind of self-concerned power....You on the other hand are considering USA to be kind of all-benevolent power that will launch Pashtuns into 22nd century with all that democracy and development....


Superpowers are seldom benign ...If that were the case, people of Saudi Arabia would now be enjoying freedom of speech and action instead of suffering under the yolk of dictatorial oppression...

Pashtuns will have to stand for themselves ...and "only for themselves"....I have strong faith in the self-sufficiency, strength, and diligence of Pashtuns as individuals...The only thing lacking is, that they cannot develop a unified response to what is causing their suffering....

Moreover, your association of Pashtunwali with all that is evil is nuaseating....This is unhighly unscientific and subjective to the extent of being entriely baseless....Man, no culture is inherently bad or good....Get over it and don't spew this thing more....No one with academic/objective outlook can accept what you say....

[ScimitarXEdge]

Such venom, wow, to your own countrymen. Here we are complaining of outside sponsored taliban amongst the pashtoon, God if one day, our own street urchins (especially brought up on donated bread crumbs) become such poisonous snakes, noo khudai um mal sha.



Read this, applies to you






No thankyou, I have enough headaches of my own, to take up the cause of Abbasid harems.

I am sorry I don't speak Urdu, if you want to recite the Ghazals of Amir Khusraw to me, please do so without associating it with some desperate atempt to justify selling yourself as a courtesan to pink faced baboons.

I couldn't help but notice how wrought with distress and woe you became at the thought this 600 lbs Gorilla who you once described as menacing megalith that you were cowering in fear of, suddenly being potentially under threat of being taken down like an obnoxious beast should. Now we find you sticking up for it,as if it was your most cherished beloved. Why the sudden change of heart? don't you WANT to liberate yourself so your bed sheets aren't soaked with fluids every night because you fear some baboon masked as a Gorilla trampling you down if you don't feed it's obnoxious and destructive appetite? Don't you want REAL freedom? Don't you want our beautiful planet Earth to have a chance at restoring itself without the machinations of these baboons transgressing upon it? Don't you want what's INTRINSICALLY good for you, for us, for everyone? Or would you rather have their lies and fabrications, their conditioned, brainwashed indoctrinated illusions, deluding you into believing some fabricated construct they peddle is the pinnacle of goodness and prosperity? Don't you want your self respect back and to regain your spine, like a real Pakhtun? As I recall the whole reasoning behind your eagerness to appease the Gorilla was because you feared it's awesome might, well if that might is taken away, then you have nothing left to fear. It's not hard to cripple such a beast, just place a strategically placed virus to paralyze it's central nervous system and you have a tame puppy who can't harm a fly. Yet it's become clear now that isn't what your concern was at all, it was not in fear of it's might, but fear of it losing it's might.

Ican understand why you'd see me as being against my "country men"'; your brain is so stifled and bogged down with the typical standards of nationalized control of some failed indoctrinated dogma that you identify identity on those grounds; but let me assure you I don't think along these lines. I don't have a country, in my brain there are no countries that exist in the essential sense, just a bunch of political corporations that have hijacked different swaths of geographic terrain which isn't rightfully theirs to have authority over anyways. I'm not against my countrymen, I am against the institutions; My concerns are global, not territorial, the only thing I am against is the institution, not the land surface, not the people, in fact I look around me and I see how pathetically empty their lives are and locked into a state of dronishness that I want nothing but to help them, "shake them and tell them to wake up", sound familiar? Just as I can see how empty and meaningless your life is, but not out of spite but out of pity and concern; it's what motivates me to want to liberate everyone, yes including you. I want to unmask the facade of the Gorilla and expose the pathetic baboon that lurks beneath. Don't you want that?


It was not I who equated me to the Mu'tazilah "hellholes", it was you; I merely smashed your snotty Uncle Tom/House Slave rhetoric apart and revealed the painful truth that your cherished Pink faced Baboon culture who's appendage you dangle from for dear life, would never have gotten anywhere without the works of the Mu'tazilah hellholes you refer to. After which you started to panic and conjured some silly prefabricated jargon to abscond it. Your headaches only exist because of their manufactured mind warp raping your brain, would that have more priority than global liberation? We can see here who's side you're on. and it's not the betterment of mankind.

sta mal da farangay dai aw la khpelo lafzono malomawey Star Khudai yaw sarkuzai mar ta mal ne dai

[Lech_Walesa]

A few weeks ago, taliban stoned a women to death, threw a big rock over her head and then shot her four times. If you call this justice and acceptible because your god says so or the man who invented the hadith to justify it then I am sorry you must have some mental issues.

Under Islamic Laws the world will crumble into chaos, however, Islamic Laws should be implemented to the bedion people just as how the amazonian jungle people are allowed to follow their own laws in Brazil but most nations do not need Islamic laws.

Mr Edge, Pashtuns are not Arabs, so it would be nice of you not to push Arab Nationalism into our mouths. Pashtuns love to dance,sing and play the rabab, they also enjoy poetry and writing about beautiful women in the mountains, something which is frown upon by Bedouins.

[Baygham]

I am sorry I don't speak Urdu, if you want to recite the Ghazals of Amir Khusraw to me, please do so without associating it with some desperate atempt to justify selling yourself as a courtesan to pink faced baboons.

I couldn't help but notice how wrought with distress and woe you became at the thought this 600 lbs Gorilla who you once described as menacing megalith that you were cowering in fear of, suddenly being potentially under threat of being taken down like an obnoxious beast should. Now we find you sticking up for it,as if it was your most cherished beloved. Why the sudden change of heart? don't you WANT to liberate yourself so your bed sheets aren't soaked with fluids every night because you fear some baboon masked as a Gorilla trampling you down if you don't feed it's obnoxious and destructive appetite? Don't you want REAL freedom? Don't you want our beautiful planet Earth to have a chance at restoring itself without the machinations of these baboons transgressing upon it? Don't you want what's INTRINSICALLY good for you, for us, for everyone? Or would you rather have their lies and fabrications, their conditioned, brainwashed indoctrinated illusions, deluding you into believing some fabricated construct they peddle is the pinnacle of goodness and prosperity? Don't you want your self respect back and to regain your spine, like a real Pakhtun? As I recall the whole reasoning behind your eagerness to appease the Gorilla was because you feared it's awesome might, well if that might is taken away, then you have nothing left to fear. It's not hard to cripple such a beast, just place a strategically placed virus to paralyze it's central nervous system and you have a tame puppy who can't harm a fly.


It was not I who equated me to the Mu'tazilah "hellholes", it was you; I merely smashed your snotty Uncle Tom/House Slave rhetoric apart and revealed the painful truth that your cherished Pink faced Baboon culture who's appendage you dangle from for dear life, would never have gotten anywhere without the works of the Mu'tazilah hellholes you refer to. After which you started to panic and conjured some silly prefabricated jargon to abscond it. Your headaches only exist because of their manufactured mind warp raping your brain, would that have more priority than global liberation? We can see here who's side you're on. and it's not the betterment of mankind.

sta mal da farangay dai aw la khpelo lafzono malomawey Star Khudai yaw sarkuzai mar ta mal ne dai

Well sir, it is not my bussiness to donate free time to your cause, God bless you, hope you find some solice in kafar watan and after toppling the banking system, find some peace.

We have other issues in watan, your identity crises is not one of them. So I am not going to devote any free time to it. I do run a shop as part of my daytime gig. Feel free to contact me if you dont have insurance. If your red baboon boss is offering a health insurance, avail it. Call your GP, share some of your views, ask to be 'Baker Acted' if he does not get your drift. What ever you do, get help before you become someone's biatch in prison. At least the probability of that person to be colored is high, so may be you will find some solice in prison, but if he is a red faced baboon, what will you do. Dont take that chance, emigrate to libya, while you are ahead. Qadafi needs some mercenaries. Or come to Peshawar, we will show you the mutazilah heaven in the seminary at 'Akora Khattak'. All the taliban masters were trained there. I can get you in , dont you worry.

[BarakzaiAbdali]

A few weeks ago, taliban stoned a women to death, threw a big rock over her head and then shot her four times. If you call this justice and acceptible because your god says so or the man who invented the hadith to justify it then I am sorry you must have some mental issues.

Under Islamic Laws the world will crumble into chaos, however, Islamic Laws should be implemented to the bedion people just as how the amazonian jungle people are allowed to follow their own laws in Brazil but most nations do not need Islamic laws.

Mr Edge, Pashtuns are not Arabs, so it would be nice of you not to push Arab Nationalism into our mouths. Pashtuns love to dance,sing and play the rabab, they also enjoy poetry and writing about beautiful women in the mountains, something which is frown upon by Bedouins.

Reread every post for the past 6 months. You're defeated already. Quit the automaton logic and go watch your Farhat Taj Andersen movies in teh corner.

[BarakzaiAbdali]

Well sir, it is not my bussiness to donate free time to your cause, God bless you, hope you find some solice in kafar watan and after toppling the banking system, find some peace.

We have other issues in watan, your identity crises is not one of them. So I am not going to devote any free time to it. I do run a shop as part of my daytime gig. Feel free to contact me if you dont have insurance. If your red baboon boss is offering a health insurance, avail it. Call your GP, share some of your views, ask to be 'Baker Acted' if he does not get your drift. What ever you do, get help before you become someone's biatch in prison. At least the probability of that person to be colored is high, so may be you will find some solice in prison, but if he is a red faced baboon, what will you do. Dont take that chance, emigrate to libya, while you are ahead. Qadafi needs some mercenaries. Or come to Peshawar, we will show you the mutazilah heaven in the seminary at 'Akora Khattak'. All the taliban masters were trained there. I can get you in , dont you worry.

I put this through the logic translator and evidence search engine and it produced the following result:

Emotion laced, system overload, null result.

[ScimitarXEdge]

Arabs too like to dance sing and play the kamanchah, and also have poetry about beautiful women. In fact most of those poems are from Bedouin Arabs; on the other hand it's well known for Pakhtuns to assasiinate a man for merely expressing thoughts of admiration towards a woman, by her male family members. In reality there's nodifference really between Pakhtuns and Arabs in so much as that's concerned, you confuse Wahhabi austerity with cultural vestiges with Arab Nationalism and in turn confuse Arab culture with Arab Nationalism; as we well know Ethnic Nationalist movements are imitations of European secular nationalist organizations and not reflective of the traditional culture of the people. Wahhabism, ethnic nationalism and the respective cultures they claim to represent, have really nothing to do with each other. Simply false appeals.

Now the Taliban are an injustice but not because they had harsh penal codes, but they administer them without any consideration of whether their motives for doing so were based on actual sound criteria. Their injustice is they could possibly have meted out a death penalty against someone who was completely innocent of the crime they accused such a person for; which makes it murder. If the Taliban had made all appropriate measures to ensure that guilty for a capital offense was beyond reasonable doubt, then there would be no issue with the moral validity of the penalty.

Remember it was Pakhtuns themselves that stood there and watched the woman get stoned to death; if Islamic Laws or harsh penalties for moral crimes was some how an alien "Bedouin" or foreign concept that you try to portray; then we'd see widespread outcry; but no the only outcry that's coming are from individuals who are either not Pakhtun at all, could possibly be pretending to be Pakhtun or simply idealizing western cultural mores as their vessel for understanding the world. Inventing false dichotomies of such and such is Pakhtun and such and such is Arab do not match reality. Much of the harsh penal code systems are enshrined with Pakhtuns for centuries; surely we're familiar with Wazir Akbar Khan and what happened to the women of Kabul who betrayed their husbands? So it is not I who is putting Arab anything in the mouths of Pakhtuns, on the contrary it is you who trying to oppose Pakhtuns standards and break their relationships with Islam, for the most absurd reasons at that, who are trying to take something away from their mouths and replace it with a hegemony identifiably farangay. Not to mention the whole "Arab culture" and arab nationalism scapegoat is completely contrived by Capitalist imperialist/hegemonic political agenda.


If your concern of injustice is the Taliban's botched form of due process; then I will agree with you one hundred percent; supporting such a thing would be mentally ill. If your objection is because you think punishing people who engage in socially destructive and self destructive behaviors; when ALL other Non-Violent means of rehabilitation and attempts to reason with them to change their ways has been expended. Then clearly your notions of what's mentally ill are warped. You have your measure of assessment backwards.

Under islamic laws the world crumble into chaos? Entire Cultures blossomed through Islamic Laws, there was no chaos there. It's not Islamic Laws that create turmoil, but a lack of them that do.

I can't imagine what chaos could possibly come about from a well organized morally purified social culture, where behaviors are regulated in a way most conducive to human faculties, but again I'm sure some irrational peon will come up with some theatric absurd objection.

[ScimitarXEdge]

Well sir, it is not my bussiness to donate free time to your cause, God bless you, hope you find some solice in kafar watan and after toppling the banking system, find some peace.

We have other issues in watan, your identity crises is not one of them. So I am not going to devote any free time to it. I do run a shop as part of my daytime gig. Feel free to contact me if you dont have insurance. If your red baboon boss is offering a health insurance, avail it. Call your GP, share some of your views, ask to be 'Baker Acted' if he does not get your drift. What ever you do, get help before you become someone's biatch in prison. At least the probability of that person to be colored is high, so may be you will find some solice in prison, but if he is a red faced baboon, what will you do. Dont take that chance, emigrate to libya, while you are ahead. Qadafi needs some mercenaries. Or come to Peshawar, we will show you the mutazilah heaven in the seminary at 'Akora Khattak'. All the taliban masters were trained there. I can get you in , dont you worry.

blah blah watan, blah blah, banking system' you clearly don't see things in their appropriate context.

You; you want to liberate Pakhtuns, I'm showing you how, either you're sincere on your banter, or really you're puffing hot air and really just want your Pink Faced baboon lover to stay at the helm while your people remain exploited and poor.

the choice is yours ....break free or be a slave.

[ScimitarXEdge]

is Lech Walesa , Mazloomkhar?

[faye]

whether you like it or not, people in the poorer countries, like new experiences and western materialism. i know this from my travels through turey, iran, afghanistan,pakistan, indaia, nepal and south east asia, in the 70's. first it is the wristwatch,transister radio, jeans, now it is the tv, computer etc. then they see the movies, the news,the ads. then there are more new things that they desire. there is no stopping this. most of you already have access to all of these and more, living in the west, so what are you asking the people of afghanistan to do? keep fighting and having their land and lives destroyed for the next ten years or so, so you, in the west can brag and say, 'look what tough guys us pashtuns are'. meanwhile you are sitting pretty, watching your horror movies, sending your children to school in secular societies, making lots of money.
so where will the afghan people be? sitting on toxic land, giving birth to deformed children, drinking polluted water, hobbling around on crutches, by that time, with NO legs. it is surely possible to have a state where people still maintain their religion. there were jews living in afghanistan since 2,500 years ago, people are able to live together, but all some of you do, is point out the negatives of the west, whilst sitting in it yourselves. but, believe me, it is unavoidable that some people will want the bad things of european style civilisation. a civilisation,which i agree, needs vast improvements.
you ridicule others for asking for afghanistan, what you yourselves, are wallowing in. i don't get it!

[ScimitarXEdge]

but we're not "wallowing in it" this is a situation institutionally created and structurally imposed. In reality our choices were limited, either we allowed it to go unchecked or we do what we have to do to unravel it's web.

your assessment is based on a very superficial personification of events, both of people here in the tecnocratic societies and those of our kin who aren't We don't care about braggadocio; what will some snotty yellow haired care about Mir Wais Khan Hotak? Our concerns matter to us and us alone.

some of us just see this is as a means to an end not an ends in itself; we're only educating ourselves in context to a bigger paradigm, how to liberate our planetrom this dysfunctional system of existence, not to keep this way of life we're currently submerged under to perpetuate on this planet.; , somewhat apocolyptic but with an outcome that doesn't see the destruction of the Earth, but the liberation of it.

[Alchemist]

whether you like it or not, people in the poorer countries, like new experiences and western materialism. i know this from my travels through turey, iran, afghanistan,pakistan, indaia, nepal and south east asia, in the 70's. first it is the wristwatch,transister radio, jeans, now it is the tv, computer etc. then they see the movies, the news,the ads. then there are more new things that they desire. there is no stopping this. most of you already have access to all of these and more, living in the west, so what are you asking the people of afghanistan to do? keep fighting and having their land and lives destroyed for the next ten years or so, so you, in the west can brag and say, 'look what tough guys us pashtuns are'. meanwhile you are sitting pretty, watching your horror movies, sending your children to school in secular societies, making lots of money.
so where will the afghan people be? sitting on toxic land, giving birth to deformed children, drinking polluted water, hobbling around on crutches, by that time, with NO legs. it is surely possible to have a state where people still maintain their religion. there were jews living in afghanistan since 2,500 years ago, people are able to live together, but all some of you do, is point out the negatives of the west, whilst sitting in it yourselves. but, believe me, it is unavoidable that some people will want the bad things of european style civilisation. a civilisation,which i agree, needs vast improvements.
you ridicule others for asking for afghanistan, what you yourselves, are wallowing in. i don't get it!

Oh so this is why you asked if I was living outside Afghanistan?

shame on you faye!

You think you know us but you don't even know what we've been through to get here and then back! You think every afghan came to the west here for materialistic desires?! You think we are wallowing here in excess and affluence?!
Each and every afghan I know of in the west supports two or three families out of their own pockets, working day and night to sponcer as many of our relatives as possible...and your telling us that we don't want for them what we have for ourselves?! You think we have given up on our heritage and assimilated with the west like your forefathers planned for us? The reason we say what we say is because this is what our forefathers have fought for since the time the british knocked on our doors. Now we are scattered across the globe, homeless, and you have the galls to tell us that we have material comfort? I see you westerners working like slavish dogs in small cubicles to dress your lonely homes with ikia and vodka ...petty lifes devoid of any meaning..is this what you wish to give us for giving up on islam? People are dying of hunger in Afghanistan ...and you are telling us that "people in poor countries like excitment and new things..."...you can only see what you look for, ms tourist.