Islam and Mullahs used in the service against Imperial Corruption and Their slaves.

[Wrayun]

I just gave you an example above. Let's start with that.

[BarakzaiAbdali]

See what I mean. So now something that "he" a human said, and "she" a human said, is equivalent to what He, as in God, the Almighty, said. Exactly what the Christians did. We now have our very own Peter, John, and Paul in the form of Bukhari, Muslim and Abu Huraira.

BTW, do you believe in marrying a 6 year old to a 50 year old, and allowing him to consummate the marriage at 9 years of age? This, according to authentic Hadiths, is the Sunnat of the Prophet Mohammad, who is an example for the rest of the Muslims to follow. Thus many people, esply in Afghanistan and Pakistan, areas like Yemen and Saudi, men ages 80 are marrying 12 and 14 year olds.

Do you think it proper, just? How do you deal with this issue, if someone doesn't believe in this or subscribe to it i.e reject it. They might say that it was a special circumstance. Or, let's take a look at it from an historical perspective, times were different. But, others, will argue, that the Sunnat is for all times, and the Prophet lead examples for the rest to follow. The result is that most often the little girl that they marry happens to come from illiterate, uneducated, and poor Muslim families. You'll never find a rich, modest, educated Muslim father or brother, just like you, who will allow their 9 year old to marry a man of that age.

How do you deal with this "authentic" hadith?

Go ahead, make your circles.

Me, on the other hand, I reject it. Not only because it's morally irrelevant today, but because I have other reasons why this can't be true. That this authentic hadith is total bullshyt. Contradictory events and statements exist. Am I an apostate now? Oh well... at least my 9 year old daughter, or sister, won't have to be violated. You on the other hand, well, as long it's not you being probed by an elderly man at the tender age of 9, wouldn't mind.

Hadiths are good as references, but that's where the buck should stop. If someone want's literally follow and do what's in the hadith, thats their choice. Something we Pukhtoons understood for a very long time amongst us as the Sunnat of the Prophet. It was not mandatory, it was not fard. In our villages, the elders will teach us that there are mandatory things in Islam, and then there is the Sunnat. If you want to be all pious and righteous, Sunnat is recommended for you. But if you don't, its okay, as long as you do the mandatory. It's your CHOICE.

And to be honest, people did follow Sunnat, and you knew that those men with beards, are indeed pious because they CHOOSE to lead that life. There was no force. People had respect for such men. They really dedicated their lives to faith and God out of true will. There was NO COMPULSION.

Things, however changed, when the Deobandis and Salafis started to pour into our villages. Now, Sunnat was made mandatory by Mullahs like Sangar, and hadiths, the saying and narrations of men, became the divine words of law, and God, rejecting or not following of which equated to apostasy ie. Sanger example above. The result of that, every thieve, criminal, warlord, drug lord, boy raping crook became a hajji with a huge beard i.e .follower of Sunnat. Everyone has a nice beard, even the crooks. Everyone is following "Sunnat", those who smile at you at the afternoon prayer, and rob you at night.

I call that ultimate form of blasphemy.

http://www.islamic-awareness.org/Polemics/aishah.html

[شمله ور خراساني]

And btw, yes, by stating what you have stated you do become an apostate and waajibul qatal. But only if the hujjah is presented to you and you still reject and and continue to slur insulting remarks regarding the marriage of rasool allah sal allahu alayhi wasalam with aysha radiallahu anha.

[شمله ور خراساني]

I just gave you an example above. Let's start with that.

make a seperate thread and present your problem in a reasonable manner,

[Wrayun]

http://www.islamic-awareness.org/Polemics/aishah.html

I have read that. It doesn't answer the subject relevance now, today. Assuming that the Prophet did marry Aisha at 9 years of age, and consummated the marriage at 9...do you believe it be an example, that should be practiced by all Muslims...at least allowed to be?

You are in the medical field, I would want your honest answer to this. Would you allow your 9 year old, to be married to a 30 year old, today, in this time and age? I doubt it, I seriously doubt it. But if you are, I would like to know how you will justify that.

[Wrayun]

And btw, yes, by stating what you have stated you do become an apostate and waajibul qatal. But only if the hujjah is presented to you and you still reject and and continue to slur insulting remarks regarding the marriage of rasool allah sal allahu alayhi wasalam with aysha radiallahu anha.

Insulting remarks? Well if you can't handle the heat already, and are crying that I Wrayun, have now insulted the Prophet or Aisha ra, then it's best you keep your mouth shut because I know where this is going to lead.

If you don't have the intellectual capacity to debate, don't.

Just to clear things up, there were no insults.

[شمله ور خراساني]

Insulting remarks? Well if you can't handle the heat already, and are crying that I Wrayun, have now insulted the Prophet or Aisha ra, then it's best you keep your mouth shut because I know where this is going to lead.

If you don't have the intellectual capacity to debate, don't.

Just to clear things up, there ware not insults.

Come on. Make the thread already. Enough of your nagging. Let's get this over with. Make a thread.

[Wrayun]

I'm nagging? You coward. I took the time to reply to you, and you are bringing up this non-issue of creating a thread? Why dont you take what I have stated, answer it, and make it a new thread. Go ahead. My reply is relevant to this topic. You are hiding behind this non-issue.

Pathetic.

[شمله ور خراساني]

the reason why I want you to make a thread is because I want to separate this from this current discussion. Because it is an important topic.

So open a new thread and we will deal with each and every one of your poblems.

[Catya Sher]

Addressed to Wrayun whose tone reminds me of his Thanker, Darkina.
I refuse to speak to you, you are demanding and hostile.
This thread PROVES what I detected in the Toramana Appreciation Thread
attacks. It's not the words; it is your energy that comes through them that
makes me unable to even have a conversation with you.

For the record, I would never laugh at SK.
I have been instead a big supporter, defending him at times when the rest of PF - including every moderator - were screeching angrily away at him!

Probably THIS is the reason you are picking on me.
Now I understand.
No one else who is religious has approached me in such a rude way.

[کیش]

Hadith irrelevant today? That's like saying Quran is irrelevant today. Bukhari, and Muslim only recorded the sayings of the companions. Most hadiths were narrated by Abu Hurariah who spend most of his life by side the prophets life. Aisha, who everyone knows his the prophets wife, as well as others like sa"d bin abi waqqas, the prophets cousin from him moms side. Ali bin Abi Talib, the prophets cousin from his dads side. Fatima, the prophets daughter. Among others

[Wrayun]

Addressed to Wrayun whose tone reminds me of his Thanker, Darkina.
I refuse to speak to you, you are demanding and hostile.
This thread PROVES what I detected in the Toramana Appreciation Thread
attacks. It's not the words; it is your energy that comes through them that
makes me unable to even have a conversation with you.

For the record, I have a big supporter of SK, defending him at times when everyone else including every moderator were screeching angrily away at him.

Probably THIS is the reason you are picking on me!
Now I see.

Dear non-Pukhtoon, non-Muslim, guest.

I have no issue with you. My only concern is to know the truth about you, which you refuse to share. There are a lot of naive, well intentioned, Pukhtoon Muslims on this platform that might be charmed by your motherly love, but not me. You are constantly pandering to our young ones, instigating their religious zealotry without shedding any light on who you are and what you believe. I find that bit odd, if not suspicious.

As for Roshina, Toramana, I think many members that were present, including your SK, Sangar, knows how I dealt with their perspectives and what they thought of me. There are plenty of threads for you to enlighten yourself on the subject. All you have to do is search for my name or threads created by me.

BTW, your pathetic excuses to hide affiliations, religious beliefs, agenda, concern...again and again, exposes your own hypocrisy and puts you on the spot. I'm sure by now, you continuing to refuse to answer my basic questions, should have caused some sort of alarms in midst of these young, gullible, naive zealots.

It's simple, what does Catya, non-Muslim, non-Pukhtoon, want with us?

[Wrayun]

Hadith irrelevant today? That's like saying Quran is irrelevant today. Bukhari, and Muslim only recorded the sayings of the companions. Most hadiths were narrated by Abu Hurariah who spend most of his life by side the prophets life. Aisha, who everyone knows his the prophets wife, as well as others like sa"d bin abi waqqas, the prophets cousin from him moms side. Ali bin Abi Talib, the prophets cousin from his dads side. Fatima, the prophets daughter. Among others

Is anyone here even paying attention to the discourse? Refer to whats being said. No where it's mentioned that Hadith are irrelevant. Hadiths make good references, and they should. The problem arises when particular schools and thoughts, make whats in the Hadith mandatory. The rejection, or scrutiny of which is rendered "technical apostasy".

[شمله ور خراساني]

http://www.pashtunforums.com/religion-15/wrayuns-problem-hadith-marriage-rasullah-saww-aiysha-ra-13467/

[کیش]

Is anyone here even paying attention to the discourse? Refer to whats being said. No where it's mentioned that Hadith are irrelevant. Hadiths make good references, and they should. The problem arises when particular schools and thoughts, make whats in the Hadith mandatory. The rejection, or scrutiny of which is rendered "technical apostasy".

You said that its "morally irrelevant today" in one of your post. Just because the Prophet married Aisha at an early age doesn't give everyone a right to do so. I agree with you on that one

I agree with most of what your saying. I studied Hadiths, when I was younger, and actually dropped out of college for a year, so I cam focus on reading and understanding Sahih Bukhari, and Muslim. It does make a good reference, but the Quran is the Law. The prophet used to pray half the night, people seem to ignore that part as well.