The Western Women - Plague of the West

[inqilab]

The Western Women
"The Plague of the West"

The Western countries pride themselves with achievements for women’s liberation and deliverance from subjugation, or so we are told. Western women are described as liberated, independent and equal, an ideal to be chased by every non-western nation as being at the peak of civilisation.

Despite what the media wishes to portray the Western Women as, the reality is that Western nations are in no position to lecture about women’s rights. Women were only until recently officially considered to be second class citizens, and have still not gained the position they sought. Women are abused and degraded on a regular basis and in the name of freedom; women have become slaves to women traffickers (for use as prostitutes) as well as goods, as slaves to magazines, film and porn. Western women have become such a cheap commodity that when trying to sell any goods, advertisers almost always use a partially clothed woman in their adverts. When they try to “have fun” and go on a night out, one in three can expect sexual assault, a quarter would have property stolen and 10% would have been physically assaulted.

It is not unusual for them to be sexually abused or raped. They are beaten, stolen from and sometimes murdered. At the same time, the average salary for women is still below that for men and men still occupy most of the top jobs. Meanwhile, the porn industry has burgeoned becoming one of the biggest media forms in the world, primarily financed by Western men. A study carried out by the National Council for Civil Liberties showed that 38% of men use their power and position at work to rape women. A Retook survey found that 88% of respondents had experienced sexual harassment at work. In the UK, 86% of managers and 66% of employers had experienced such problems.

Being such independent thinkers, free to wear as they wish, it is strange to note that women’s fashion and clothing are largely designed by their male counterparts. Male designers such as Gucci, Calvin Klein, D& G, YSL are just a few of the names in an industry overrun by men. Is it not ironic that those women who crave liberation and equality end up wearing clothes that have been designed by men who wish to satisfy elements of their base desires?

The situation of the woman is the West is so liberating that they 21 percent suffer from major depression with depressed women outnumbering men by over 2 to 147.

Women experience suicidal ideation more than men, with women reporting attempted suicides of 2 to 3 times more than males [1]. One in six women in the US have been a victim of a forced sexual assault i.e. rape. Alcohol abuse amongst women has almost doubled in the past few years, and it is expected that in the next decade women will be drinking more than men [2]. A large scale psychiatric study known as SAMHSA’s 2003 National Survey on Drug Use & Health estimated that up to 6% of all women aged over 18 years of age in the US were abusing alcohol or displayed drug dependency [3].

Sexually denigrated, alcoholic and drug dependent, abused, attacked and raped,
constant thoughts of suicide and self harm, deeply depressed, pandering after
equality such is the nature of the liberated Western woman!


FOOTNOTES:
[1] Weissman et al. Prevalence of suicide ideation & suicide attempts. Psychological Medicine, 1999; 29(1): 9-17.
[2] http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/health/4470097.stm
[3] http://oas.samhsa.gov/2k5/women/women.htm

[Roshina]

Anyone who claims that the women in her/his part of the world are treated better than in other parts is lying both to her/himself as well as to the rest of the world.

This article is the same way. It wants to claim that the western woman's oppressed while the eastern woman isn't. First of all, how does it define liberation and oppression? Has it ever occurred to us that, just as we can’t say that all Muslim women are oppressed, we can’t say that all Western women are oppressed? Has it ever occurred to us that, just as we can’t let the actions of a few Muslims justify our conclusion of the entire Muslim world, we can’t let the same happen with the west?

Aaaand let’s not forget that all women are not the same and they don’t wanna be the same. Why should the eastern woman be compared to the western woman, then? Who is anyone to decide how women should be treated? Let the women speak for themselves, will ya? And not just a few of them but a lot of them.

Another thing. When you wanna talk ABOUT women, you need to talk TO them first. You need to know what the western woman feels before you go around writing about her, just like you need to know what the eastern and Muslim woman feels before you talk about her. Another thing that should be kept in mind when “researching” people’s lives is this: no one represents anyone. You can’t see women on tv and say, “See? Seeeee? We TOLD you the western woman is oppressed!” Just like you can’t look at the way the media portrays women in the east or the Muslim woman, such that many westerners think that’s how the reality is.

Just as YOU don’t wanna be misrepresented by the world, the western woman, too, doesn’t wanna be misrepresented.

What we need, needless for me to say, is a dialogue in which we sit down with each other and tell each other, "STOP talking about my part of the world. If I can't talk about your part of the world, what right do you have talking about me?"

Anyway, lemme comment on some points in the article.

The Western countries pride themselves with achievements for women’s liberation and deliverance from subjugation, or so we are told.

And the author disagrees with this? Let's compare the ratio of literate women in the west versus in the east. Education is liberation, friends. Education is liberation.

Islam has given women the right to education, but is this just in theory or in practice as well? Whose fault is that? (Some) Muslims', right? The rights that God has given women in Islam are observed in the west, not in the east -- examples include: education, work, right to marry someone of her choice, right to divorce (it's not supposed to be the first resort, but how is it practiced in Muslim communities? What do men say? "Talaaq" three times, yeah?), right to custody for her children, and so on.

Western women are described as liberated, independent and equal, an ideal to be chased by every non-western nation as being at the peak of civilisation.

Clearly, the author of this article needs to study what women in the west say and believe. Many women here agree that the west doesn't treat women the way it's supposed to, AND they also agree that women are treated no better in other countries. This is the reality. The west might want to claim that its women are treated better, but the east isn't any better either, as much as it might want to claim it is.

Oh, and by the way, following are some ways women are mistreated in the east (note that I'm not saying ISLAM; I'm talking about practices here):

- forced marriages
- marital rape
- wife-beating (and there's no group of people I can think of that doesn't have this as a plague to worry about)
- honor killing (it's getting less common, though, fortunately)
- no right to divorce when the woman wants/needs it desperately but the husband can divorce her at his wish ANY TIME he wants by simply saying, "talaaq" three times.

Now, wife-beating occurs everywhere. But the problem is that in the Muslim world, many Muslims justify it using Quranic verses (e.g., verse 4:34) and hadiths that talk about the dominance of husband over his wife. No, there’s more to these verses and hadiths than what we’ve made them to be, but the fact remains that many Muslims justify wife-beating using Islam, and they actually have a good justification.

In the west, on the other hand, you beat up your wife, and she can report you. She may not always succeed or may not always get justice, but the fact that there are support groups to help her out – counseling, sheltering, government support, etc. – is enough to console her and to assure her that she will not be abused and IF she is, she has resources to turn to.

What happens to Muslim women in the east when they’re abused? What happens to them when they’re divorced? What happens to them when they’re widowed?

C’mon now – we dare to define oppression when we don’t know what it is, or can’t agree on what it is?

Despite what the media wishes to portray the Western Women as, the reality is that Western nations are in no position to lecture about women’s rights.

Neither the western woman nor the eastern woman is in any position to lecture about woman’s rights. And especially men are in no position.

Women were only until recently officially considered to be second class citizens,

Yes – and guess what: their fight started around the mid- and late-1980s, reached its height in early 1900s, and by now, the only injustice seems to be their unequal pay.

If the argument is that Islam has given women the rights that women in the west have been fighting for, the response should be: So what? They have the rights in theory, but what about in practice?

Only recently did women in the Muslim world started getting the education that Islam guaranteed them over 1400 years ago. Islam gave women the rights to vote 1400 years ago, but guess when Muslim countries enforced this right? Visit this link to know exactly when Muslim countries allowed women the right to vote: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timeline_of_first_women's_suffrage_in_majority-Muslim_countries

(I know, I know - it's Wikiepedia, but here's another link if the above one doesn't satisfy you: http://www.absoluteastronomy.com/top...n%27s_suffrage)

For your info, the earliest date is 1918! And that’s Azerbaijan; the latest is 2006— UAE. One wonders why it was enforced over 1400 years after the right was given. Gosh.

So, yeah. What exactly is this article trying to show?

and have still not gained the position they sought.

Like I just said above, this is not true.

Women are abused and degraded on a regular basis and in the name of freedom; women have become slaves to women traffickers (for use as prostitutes) as well as goods, as slaves to magazines, film and porn.

You mean to tell me this doesn’t exist in non-western nations? Because that’d be a lie.

Western women have become such a cheap commodity that when trying to sell any goods, advertisers almost always use a partially clothed woman in their adverts.

And the east is catching up with this quite fast; have you noticed?

When they try to “have fun” and go on a night out, one in three can expect sexual assault, a quarter would have property stolen and 10% would have been physically assaulted.

This is true, yes. But who would be proud of this? Something makes you think the west is proud of this, and I’m not sure what it is.

It is not unusual for them to be sexually abused or raped.

Yes. And most rape AND abuse cases are reported – unlike in the east, where they’re often not reported because of family honor.

They are beaten, stolen from and sometimes murdered.

And they’re not beaten, stolen, and murdered in the east? What?

At the same time, the average salary for women is still below that for men and men still occupy most of the top jobs.

This is one of the only inequalities in the west—no wait, in the U.S.

Meanwhile, the porn industry has burgeoned becoming one of the biggest media forms in the world, primarily financed by Western men. A study carried out by the National Council for Civil Liberties showed that 38% of men use their power and position at work to rape women. A Retook survey found that 88% of respondents had experienced sexual harassment at work. In the UK, 86% of managers and 66% of employers had experienced such problems.

So far in this article, I’m noting that they’re telling us that women in the west are oppressed just because of how women are sexually abused. I completely agree that this is oppression – but this is not all there is to oppression. And I’m still not convinced that women in the east are any better. In fact, the article never talks about women in the east. Why?

The situation of the woman is the West is so liberating that they 21 percent suffer from major depression with depressed women outnumbering men by over 2 to 147.

I was going to mention this same thing about non-western women. It is a fact that women in the west have a high rate of depression, but that’s not to mean that women in the east don’t. People in industrialized nations are more likely to know what depression is AND to report their depression AND to get counseling/clinical help for it. Most countries in the east are not industrialized, so it makes sense why we’d be told that their women have “less” depression. I don’t believe it, personally, because I know tons of Muslim women who have depression—mostly because of husbands abusing them.

I recently wrote something called “Are ‘Islam’ and ‘the west’ Mutually Exclusive?” In other words, are “Islam” and “the west” opposites? Can an Islamic person ever be westernized? Can a westerner or westernized individual ever be Islamic? Because we always seem to say “in the west …” and “but in Islam…” Why do we say this when “Islam” is a theory (as explained above, Muslim women are rarely granted the rights Islam has given them) while the west is an actual reality? Feel free to express your thoughts regarding it.

[شمله ور خراساني]

The Western Women
"The Plague of the West"

The Western countries pride themselves with achievements for women’s liberation and deliverance from subjugation, or so we are told. Western women are described as liberated, independent and equal, an ideal to be chased by every non-western nation as being at the peak of civilisation.

Despite what the media wishes to portray the Western Women as, the reality is that Western nations are in no position to lecture about women’s rights. Women were only until recently officially considered to be second class citizens, and have still not gained the position they sought. Women are abused and degraded on a regular basis and in the name of freedom; women have become slaves to women traffickers (for use as prostitutes) as well as goods, as slaves to magazines, film and porn. Western women have become such a cheap commodity that when trying to sell any goods, advertisers almost always use a partially clothed woman in their adverts. When they try to “have fun” and go on a night out, one in three can expect sexual assault, a quarter would have property stolen and 10% would have been physically assaulted.

It is not unusual for them to be sexually abused or raped. They are beaten, stolen from and sometimes murdered. At the same time, the average salary for women is still below that for men and men still occupy most of the top jobs. Meanwhile, the porn industry has burgeoned becoming one of the biggest media forms in the world, primarily financed by Western men. A study carried out by the National Council for Civil Liberties showed that 38% of men use their power and position at work to rape women. A Retook survey found that 88% of respondents had experienced sexual harassment at work. In the UK, 86% of managers and 66% of employers had experienced such problems.

Being such independent thinkers, free to wear as they wish, it is strange to note that women’s fashion and clothing are largely designed by their male counterparts. Male designers such as Gucci, Calvin Klein, D& G, YSL are just a few of the names in an industry overrun by men. Is it not ironic that those women who crave liberation and equality end up wearing clothes that have been designed by men who wish to satisfy elements of their base desires?

The situation of the woman is the West is so liberating that they 21 percent suffer from major depression with depressed women outnumbering men by over 2 to 147.

Women experience suicidal ideation more than men, with women reporting attempted suicides of 2 to 3 times more than males [1]. One in six women in the US have been a victim of a forced sexual assault i.e. rape. Alcohol abuse amongst women has almost doubled in the past few years, and it is expected that in the next decade women will be drinking more than men [2]. A large scale psychiatric study known as SAMHSA’s 2003 National Survey on Drug Use & Health estimated that up to 6% of all women aged over 18 years of age in the US were abusing alcohol or displayed drug dependency [3].

Sexually denigrated, alcoholic and drug dependent, abused, attacked and raped,
constant thoughts of suicide and self harm, deeply depressed, pandering after
equality such is the nature of the liberated Western woman!


FOOTNOTES:
[1] Weissman et al. Prevalence of suicide ideation & suicide attempts. Psychological Medicine, 1999; 29(1): 9-17.
[2] http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/health/4470097.stm
[3] http://oas.samhsa.gov/2k5/women/women.htm

Good read. Thank you jazakallah khair

[شمله ور خراساني]

Anyone who claims that the women in her/his part of the world are treated better than in other parts is lying both to her/himself as well as to the rest of the world.

This article is the same way. It wants to claim that the western woman's oppressed while the eastern woman isn't. First of all, how does it define liberation and oppression? Has it ever occurred to us that, just as we can’t say that all Muslim women are oppressed, we can’t say that all Western women are oppressed? Has it ever occurred to us that, just as we can’t let the actions of a few Muslims justify our conclusion of the entire Muslim world, we can’t let the same happen with the west?

Aaaand let’s not forget that all women are not the same and they don’t wanna be the same. Why should the eastern woman be compared to the western woman, then? Who is anyone to decide how women should be treated? Let the women speak for themselves, will ya? And not just a few of them but a lot of them.

Another thing. When you wanna talk ABOUT women, you need to talk TO them first. You need to know what the western woman feels before you go around writing about her, just like you need to know what the eastern and Muslim woman feels before you talk about her. Another thing that should be kept in mind when “researching” people’s lives is this: no one represents anyone. You can’t see women on tv and say, “See? Seeeee? We TOLD you the western woman is oppressed!” Just like you can’t look at the way the media portrays women in the east or the Muslim woman, such that many westerners think that’s how the reality is.

Just as YOU don’t wanna be misrepresented by the world, the western woman, too, doesn’t wanna be misrepresented.

What we need, needless for me to say, is a dialogue in which we sit down with each other and tell each other, "STOP talking about my part of the world. If I can't talk about your part of the world, what right do you have talking about me?"

Anyway, lemme comment on some points in the article.


And the author disagrees with this? Let's compare the ratio of literate women in the west versus in the east. Education is liberation, friends. Education is liberation.

Islam has given women the right to education, but is this just in theory or in practice as well? Whose fault is that? (Some) Muslims', right? The rights that God has given women in Islam are observed in the west, not in the east -- examples include: education, work, right to marry someone of her choice, right to divorce (it's not supposed to be the first resort, but how is it practiced in Muslim communities? What do men say? "Talaaq" three times, yeah?), right to custody for her children, and so on.


Clearly, the author of this article needs to study what women in the west say and believe. Many women here agree that the west doesn't treat women the way it's supposed to, AND they also agree that women are treated no better in other countries. This is the reality. The west might want to claim that its women are treated better, but the east isn't any better either, as much as it might want to claim it is.

Oh, and by the way, following are some ways women are mistreated in the east (note that I'm not saying ISLAM; I'm talking about practices here):

- forced marriages
- marital rape
- wife-beating (and there's no
- honor killing (it's getting less common, though, fortunately)
- no right to divorce when the woman wants/needs it desperately but the husband can divorce her at his wish ANY TIME he wants by simply saying, "talaaq" three times.

Now, wife-beating occurs everywhere. But the problem is that in the Muslim world, many Muslims justify it using Quranic verses (e.g., verse 4:34) and hadiths that talk about the dominance of husband over his wife. No, there’s more to these verses and hadiths than what we’ve made them to be, but the fact remains that many Muslims justify wife-beating using Islam, and they actually have a good justification.

In the west, on the other hand, you beat up your wife, and she can report you. She may not always succeed or may not always get justice, but the fact that there are support groups to help her out – counseling, sheltering, government support, etc. – is enough to console her and to assure her that she will not be abused and IF she is, she has resources to turn to.

What happens to Muslim women in the east when they’re abused? What happens to them when they’re divorced? What happens to them when they’re widowed?

C’mon now – we dare to define oppression when we don’t know what it is, or can’t agree on what it is?


Neither the western woman nor the eastern woman is in any position to lecture about woman’s rights. And especially men are in no position.


Yes – and guess what: their fight started around the mid- and late-1980s, reached its height in early 1900s, and by now, the only injustice seems to be their unequal pay.

If the argument is that Islam has given women the rights that women in the west have been fighting for, the response should be: So what? They have the rights in theory, but what about in practice?

Only recently did women in the Muslim world started getting the education that Islam guaranteed them over 1400 years ago. Islam gave women the rights to vote 1400 years ago, but guess when Muslim countries enforced this right? Visit this link to know exactly when Muslim countries allowed women the right to vote: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timeline_of_first_women's_suffrage_in_majority-Muslim_countries

(I know, I know - it's Wikiepedia, but here's another link if the above one doesn't satisfy you: http://www.absoluteastronomy.com/top...n%27s_suffrage)

For your info, the earliest date is 1918! And that’s Azerbaijan; the latest is 2006— UAE. One wonders why it was enforced over 1400 years after the right was given. Gosh.

So, yeah. What exactly is this article trying to show?


Like I just said above, this is not true.


You mean to tell me this doesn’t exist in non-western nations? Because that’d be a lie.


And the east is catching up with this quite fast; have you noticed?


This is true, yes. But who would be proud of this? Something makes you think the west is proud of this, and I’m not sure what it is.


Yes. And most rape AND abuse cases are reported – unlike in the east, where they’re often not reported because of family honor.


And they’re not beaten, stolen, and murdered in the east? What?



This is one of the only inequalities in the west—no wait, in the U.S.



So far in this article, I’m noting that they’re telling us that women in the west are oppressed just because of how women are sexually abused. I completely agree that this is oppression – but this is not all there is to oppression. And I’m still not convinced that women in the east are any better. In fact, the article never talks about women in the east. Why?


I was going to mention this same thing about non-western women. It is a fact that women in the west have a high rate of depression, but that’s not to mean that women in the east don’t. People in industrialized nations are more likely to know what depression is AND to report their depression AND to get counseling/clinical help for it. Most countries in the east are not industrialized, so it makes sense why we’d be told that their women have “less” depression. I don’t believe it, personally, because I know tons of Muslim women who have depression—mostly because of husbands abusing them.

I recently wrote something called “Are ‘Islam’ and ‘the west’ Mutually Exclusive?” In other words, are “Islam” and “the west” opposites? Can an Islamic person ever be westernized? Can a westerner or westernized individual ever be Islamic? Because we always seem to say “in the west …” and “but in Islam…” Why do we say this when “Islam” is a theory (as explained above, Muslim women are rarely granted the rights Islam has given them) while the west is an actual reality? Feel free to express your thoughts regarding it.

Pamela Geller, you do spend quite allot of energy attempting to refute the obvious. hahah

[MeemWawMeemNoon]

The only difference between a man and woman is that a man, in most cases, is physically more stronger than a woman, and he is by nature supposed to be the main bread winner. Other than these two reasons, there is absolutely no difference between a man and a woman.

[Michin Khel]

I read the article and agrees with author but i also agrees with qrrutugai that east is also not that much better when it comes to freedom and equality.
The irritating thing to feel most is that when west claim their women to be ideal women and consider muslim women as oppressed, deprived and pathetic.
May be islam has not given that much liberty to the women which west has given them now but it certainly has focused on maintaining natural behaviour of woman. i.e i feel that in west females are losing touch with femininity
She is racing with men there, she is working to earn her own money to be independent ....the problem in this case arises when she bear a child, she cant leave her job for 6 or 5 years to take care of kid by herself (while the leave by office to her is i think max 2 years for pregnacy and care), a babysitter is given task to take care of the kid in her absence...so motherhood is splitted for child...the child is not getting full care from her biological mother at the stage of life where he/she is in greatest need of care.
Westren woman is joining army to prove that she is equally capabable in fighting, while through study of human bodies we know that muscles and bones of female are not much strong to withstand hard fightings of war...also her emotional make up is so intense that fear, tension, tachycardia is easy to overwhelme her.
To maintain her beauty she is giving cow milk to infants instead of breastfeeding...just to maintain the beauty of breast, thanks to encouraging of westren media who misguide women that she will be best only if she is sexually attractive and young looking....while we know that avoiding breastfeeding may leads to breast cancer.
The article correctly describes the sexual objectification of woman in west, i feel that it is un-natural for females but if some one says no running after males and sexually attract them is natural then i questions the validy of this whole feminist movement.

[MazloomyarMaseed]

You can see the state of Western women when you go out at night time and you will see the truth, they are like animals waiting to find partners to breed with and spend one night stands with. Western society as you know is only surviving over wealth, u wait and see when money is all over and you will witness the lootmal!

[Michin Khel]

Thanks qratugai and afghanlady for the welcome.

@qrrutugai
i have not said that west is not encouraging breastfeeding, i am question why ratio of breastfeeding is not encouraging there? Why to hold seminars and lectures to encourage mothers? They dont need lectures, they are supposed to follow their motherly instincts.
A time will come that milk formula with exact contents of human milk will be available in the market...what the women are supposed in this case? Make it Excuse to abonden breastfeeding? Or follow their natural instincts?
I am worried about growing materialism and diminishing emotions in the world.

[imb706]

What is Islam´s obsession with women not being in giant blankets and forced to be in the kitchen all day? Does it really offend them when women vote and work and make something of themselves independant of men? I mean, this must be some sort of weird joke going on. It comes off as bizzare and neurotic to be honest.

Also I see more porn mentioned. Muslims seem to watch and talk more about porn than even porn stars! It seems like messed up priorities. Even the most hardcore, frizzy haired, hippie feminist must role their eyes when muslims rant about porn, lol.

[MeemWawMeemNoon]

Luffy Jana,

the biggest reason why feminism has started is because men have forgotten to take care of women's right. This is one of the reasons Islam succeeded in the time of our beloved Imam Hadhrat Muhammad (saw). He was at the fore-front of protecting their rights and making sure that they know what their natural rights and instincts are. He succeeded because he made sure that the men understood their rights as well.

As I mentioned earlier, there is no difference between a man and a woman except for two reasons. These two reasons are why a man is simply a degree higher than a woman. But that only applies to men who apply it; otherwise, women are just as capable as men. Women can also provide and can also be physically strong. It is all about mind over matter.

Allah would never make someone naturally subordinate to someone else. That is why women are just as capable as men are.

The Holy Quran has prophesied about feminism over 1430 years ago.

I believe the cause of feminism is men themselves. I don't blame Western feminists. Feminism in the West started because of Western male chauvinism and sexism. However, Eastern men have not done any better. Eastern men, namely Muslim men, have not followed their own book with enough dedication to show the world why Islam has the best solution.
Had Muslim men continued this Islamic tradition, the sunnah of that great human being (saw), today women all over the world would have found hope in Islam—a real safe haven for peace. Unfortunately, our actions towards our women has fogged up the real beauties of Islam.

Before we point the finger at feminism we have to first make sure that in our households women are treated with respect. In the eyes of Allah, women are not second-class citizens, therefore, in our eyes she should never be inferior to us.

[Michin Khel]

What is Islam´s obsession with women not being in giant blankets and forced to be in the kitchen all day?

A woman who considers herself honourable and dont want to be percieved as merely sexy show piece, will hide her beauty....beauty is precious not cheap to be exihibited in public like a show...if any woman is exposing herself to please males in public then she is admitting that she is merely hot sexy object for pleasing random males...she is not earning respect here as equal human.
Also you should know that women love to work in kitchen.

Does it really offend them when women vote and work and make something of themselves independant of men? I mean, this must be some sort of weird joke going on. It comes off as bizzare and neurotic to be honest.

Women are not prevented from casting votes in islam, if some muslim nations are strict on this , then they are wrong....

the problem in west is that they have weak concept of family system.
Family should have one administrator who will earn and feed the money...every country has one president or prime minister not more than two...in similar fashion a family should have one administrator...which can be both husband or wife..but think who is naturally fitted for earning in outside world? Obviously male. The role of wife in family will be to take care of household affairs and kids. Only one can work outside to smoothely run the family system.
If we shift the administrator role of the family to the wife, then she has to earn for whole family and husband has to take care of household affairs and kids, which will be un-natural ,is'nt it?

Also I see more porn mentioned. Muslims seem to watch and talk more about porn than even porn stars! It seems like messed up priorities. Even the most hardcore, frizzy haired, hippie feminist must role their eyes when muslims rant about porn, lol.

the issue is not about watching porn, it is about degraded and humiliating acts performed by males on females in porn, i assume westren people do sex in the way depicted in porn. I wonder why westren feminists dont protest over dominance of males in the sex?

[imb706]

I am worried about growing materialism and diminishing emotions in the world.

Unless you mean materialist as in people who love collecting materials, materialist recognize emotions as the driving nature of human choice. It´s the non-materialist who think of humans as either rational beings driven by their own free will or just puppets controlled by a supernatural being.

A woman who considers herself honourable and dont want to be percieved as merely sexy show piece ....beauty is precious not cheap to be exihibited in public like a show if any woman is exposing herself to please males in public then she is admitting that she is merely hot sexy object for pleasing random males...she is not earning respect here as equal human.

Somehow, being forced to be in the kitchen or STFU under threats of beatings and other punishments, and well, being breeding stock somehow doesn´t fit that description. Yes, more restrictive societies forbid open sex and open expression of sex, because such things diminish the need for marriage and other institutions whos prime focus is well, breeding. If anything, Muslims and other more conservative religions are the most obsessed about sex and women. They like to control both.

Also you should know that women love to work in kitchen.

XD I seriously hope that was a joke.

Women are not prevented from casting votes in islam, ,if some muslim nations are strict on this , then they are wrong....

Sure, not just women, everyone is prevented from having even the tinyest bit of political and social control in islamic societies. Turkey happens to be a secular country, it´s why it´s the only Muslim majority country with at least some recognition of womans rights.

Of course, many muslim conservatives get enraged at women voting and doing political things, just look at how they love targeting in muslim countries when they commit acts of terror or create sanctions against someone.

the problem in west is that they have weak concept of family system.
Family should have one administrator who will earn and feed the money...every country has one president or prime minister not more than two...in similar fashion a family should have one administrator...which can be both husband or wife..but think who is naturally fitted for earning in outside world? Obviously male. The role of wife in family will be to take care of household affairs and kids. Only one can work outside to smoothely run the family system.
If we shift the administrator role of the family to the wife, then she has to earn for whole family and husband has to take care of household affairs and kids, which will be un-natural ,is'nt it?

I haven´t a clue how males are better in the work force, the majority of hard working people I know in the city are female. Most of the doctors here are female.

The real reason the ¨family system¨ as you call it is weak in the west is because much of it is obsolete nowadays. For both good and bad reasons, the conservative family system is near extinction. The good being that modern economics and modern sensibilities have evolved to allow people greater freedom and choice when it comes to governing their lives, especially with women, so people aren´t forced into age old traditions and age old restrictions that constitute the family values and family system. Of course, there´s also bad things going with that, I think it´s possible in the next few hundred years, in the modern world people will be born and raised in corporations and not families. That´ś a far flung prediction mind you, but you see my point on why familie values are obsolete.

the issue is not about watching porn, it is about degraded and humiliating acts performed by males on females in porn, i assume westren people do sex in the way depicted in porn. I wonder why westren feminists dont protest over dominance of males in the sex?

Again, muslims are so obsessed with porn, to the point even the anti porn feminist would roll their eyes and start laughing. Did Larry Flint troll muslims back in the day or something? Honestly, who cares about porn.

It seems like it´s about muslim men not wanting women to have sex with whom they want, and staying in the kitchen and being obidenant and subserviant.

[tor_khan]

MODERATOR NOTE: Please do not make generalisations.

What is Islam´s obsession with women not being in giant blankets and forced to be in the kitchen all day?

[imb706]

But the answer pretty much proved that sensibility correct. But okay, sure, I won´t say just Islam in the future. I guess it is a bit unfair.

[pukhtana]

Mumina, I am in love with your post.

welcome here, I might not post but I read a lot here.