Pashtuns working for ISI

[akbarkhan]

Ok wror jaana now lets be fair...you picked Nahma and Mangal and you picked ddamaan for the other. Is that fair? Why didn't you pick Sardar Ali Takkar, Khyaal Mohammad, etc?

Wrora if someone brought wrong things about Afghanistan I would defend it, because I may not be the brightest bulb but I can catch BS when I see it. And here I hate to say it you are being very unfair. Ok lets take a tasteful video as well

Look, I am not being selective brother. Sample 100 random pakistani pashtu music videos and sample 100 random afghani pashtu music videos, they reflect totally different culture. Would that be fair?

[BLS_1919v2.0]

Look, I am not being selective brother. Sample 100 random pakistani pashtu music videos and sample 100 random afghani pashtu music videos, they reflect totally different culture. Would that be fair?

Is ddamthob the basis of the culture of Pashtunkhwa? Didn't I tell you that this is an ugly reality, I don't support it and neither do the majority of Pashtuns. It is like charss. What you are doing is just bringing unnecessary problems. If you want to criticize it and suggest an alternative...please do I will agree with you. However this is just another way of making hurdles.

[akbarkhan]

Akber Khan always remmeber that Pakistan made your Taliban and without it you Shariat promoters wil have no where to hide nor run too.

Regards to the video, I can be very cruel and harsh and post some of the Bachabaz videos recorded in Afghanistan but I am not so ignorant.

Kind Regards

What will happen to Pakistan, only time will reveal!

Be as harsh as you can, we too have rotten apples amongst us just like any other country but Pakistan stinks of Fahsha.

[akbarkhan]

Is ddamthob the basis of the culture of Pashtunkhwa? Didn't I tell you that this is an ugly reality, I don't support it

It is not the basis of it, but Dammocracy is creeping into Pashtunkhwa culture.

What you are doing is just bringing unnecessary problems. If you want to criticize it and suggest an alternative...please do I will agree with you. However this is just another way of making hurdles.

These are not unecessary problems brother, my and you forefathers have sacrificed their all to safeguard our Namos and Ezat but look at us today. You know what the alternative is, and the alternative is right next door.

[akbarkhan]

Afghan wait till he begins telling you that you also support Taliban. Place him on your ignore list. He is a little man from England who gets excited and pleasure while insulting us. He has been banned from nearly every Forum and I have no clue why Admin has allowed him here. I don't know why Admin gave him a 2nd chance.

MisbehavedMaseed is from England? He always tells me that because I live in England I am a sold out lol

[BLS_1919v2.0]

It is not the basis of it, but Dammocracy is creeping into Pashtunkhwa culture.



These are not unecessary problems brother, my and you forefathers have sacrificed their all to safeguard our Namos and Ezat but look at us today. You know what the alternative is, and the alternative is right next door.

First of all, Dammocracy (if this is even a terminology, but I will go with it) is slowing down in a lot of regions due to the fighting, increased talibanization and recent political problems. If anything it is the least of the issues. Now in general in a city like Peshawar yes we can say it is a problem. However, societies as a whole and everywhere are seeing a decline in culture and increase of such things. It is a worldwide thing. Peera Ddamaan among other occupations are not even considered Pashtuns in Pashtunkhwa forget about other things.

By unnecessary I don't mean ddamtob (I myself dislike it), I am talking about using videos and finding issues and then making them a Pashtunkhwa or Afghanistan thing. This is wrong and counter productive. If there is a problem in one part of Afghan watan be it swat, dir, waziristan, qandahar, kabul, etc. We should find solutions for it. Not generalize and indirectly bring unnecessary conflict between our people. The way you worded it gives someone an impression that either Pashutnkhwa people on a whole have little pashto or ddamthob is an epidemic there. This will just end up leading to bitterness. Imagine there is a problem in Kabul, and instead of us finding a solution or discussing it, someone says "marra daa kabuliyaan dee...flaana flaana". Do you think that would be the right approach? Don't you think it would be counter productive?

[akbarkhan]

First of all, Dammocracy (if this is even a terminology, but I will go with it) is slowing down in a lot of regions due to the fighting, increased talibanization and recent political problems. If anything it is the least of the issues. Now in general in a city like Peshawar yes we can say it is a problem. However, societies as a whole and everywhere are seeing a decline in culture and increase of such things. It is a worldwide thing. Peera Ddamaan among other occupations are not even considered Pashtuns in Pashtunkhwa forget about other things.

By unnecessary I don't mean ddamtob (I myself dislike it), I am talking about using videos and finding issues and then making them a Pashtunkhwa or Afghanistan thing. This is wrong and counter productive. If there is a problem in one part of Afghan watan be it swat, dir, waziristan, qandahar, kabul, etc. We should find solutions for it. Not generalize and indirectly bring unnecessary conflict between our people. The way you worded it gives someone an impression that either Pashutnkhwa people on a whole have little pashto or ddamthob is an epidemic there. This will just end up leading to bitterness. Imagine there is a problem in Kabul, and instead of us finding a solution or discussing it, someone says "marra daa kabuliyaan dee...flaana flaana". Do you think that would be the right approach? Don't you think it would be counter productive?

I agree and my intentions aren't to bring discord. I agree that the entire world is turning towards Dammocracy (its not a word, makes sense though?).

There is a huge conflict of interest, how can you call for unity of Pashtuns when one minute your Afghan the other you are a 'proud pakistani pathan'? For me a Pashtun is always an Afghan, I have no love for Pashtuns who call themselves Pakistani, I don't hate them either. I just dislike them and I have no reason to count on them!

[BLS_1919v2.0]

I agree and my intentions aren't to bring discord. I agree that the entire world is turning towards Dammocracy (its not a word, makes sense though?).

There is a huge conflict of interest, how can you call for unity of Pashtuns when one minute your Afghan the other you are a 'proud pakistani pathan'? For me a Pashtun is always an Afghan, I have no love for Pashtuns who call themselves Pakistani, I don't hate them either. I just dislike them and I have no reason to count on them!

Peera there are two things. First of all, Pakistani is a citizenship. Now majority Pashtuns are qibaeelee people (whether east or west of the durand line) and take pakistani as a citizenship. It isn't the beginning of their world nor the end of it. The few there that even feel attachment is due to the constant hype around muslim Pakistan hindu India. Now in those areas where qibaelee people are muslim, obviously they don't want to be known as a hindu agent or Kaffir (people who advocate Loy Afghanistan are called this by Pakistani agencies and before even trying to bring about Pashtunkhwa autonomy was straight kuffar and treachery). So it is unfair to put that claim. Ofcourse all Pashtuns are Afghans (even Pakistan's mufakkr Iqbal used Afghan to designate Pashtunkhwa Pashtuns, but obviously in areas like Peshawar they want to dilute that for political purposes).

About Pathan khansaamas, I agree with you. They are bigger dukhmans to us than even peerangyaan. They are the people who have pimped out their people and brought destruction in Pashtunkhwa and Afghanistan. So I agree with you completely. However, you have to make a difference between the regular Pashtuns (as well as the political reality of the citizenship...inshallah unity will be our future, but we can't deny what is in front of us today), and those pathans. There is a clear difference.

[Baygham]

A Pashtun whether he works for ISPR or ISI or Pak Army or supports any of those groups in my opinion is a sold out. Jasmine said she will throw a shoe at them, I might just spit in on their faces. If I ever have a family member who joins ISI, I will never consider him part of the family. We know ISI has killed thousands of Pashtuns and deceived us.


I agree with Akbar Khan, when has a Pashtun from Pashtunkhwa protested against our killings? Let me guess they were to busy partying from being known as Sarhadis to Pashtunkwa. We both have faults. Both sides have shortcomings. That is the point of my post.

Having strong connections with pashtoons both in afghanistan and pakistan I can assure some of you that your assessment is a little off.

First, ISI is a criminal organization and these peaple should be taken to Hague. Like the Nazis, have the generals all lined up and do a nuremburg style inquisition. The foot soldier can be rehabilitated.

Secondly, their is an impression in afghanistan, that pashtoons in pakhtunkhwa have it made. This may have been relatively true in the 80's and 90's this is no longer true in 2000's. The pakistani pashtun is worse than afghanistan. The army has total control on all aspects of life. You can rebel, but how much. Those of us yapping on this forum (talking about pakistani pashtoons) do so from western countries, secure in our anonimity. If we were talking openly in pakistan you would be long dead and atleast ostracised.

The taliban movement started by a retired general from pakhtunkhwa (forgot his name was from near noshera) who is a multimillionaire. The whole wahabization of pashtoons is a process preferrred by the paki army. It allows them access to arab money and gives them legitimacy to control an impoverished ethnically different population.

Before 1975 a pashtoon in present khyber pakhtunkhwa was more free, had more avenues of economic progress. I am not sure about the pashtoons in afghanistan(have no direct knowledge) . Now a pashtoon is mostly a slave, or at the very least a pawn in someone elses hand.

The main method of pakistani army, beside direct recruiting to the army cadres is through proxy institutions like the taliban. All the major pakistani and afghanistan talibans are or were directly and indirectly under their control and still are.

Lastly Pakistan army is a huge institution, with over a million men. In addition over 10% of the pakistan families have their livelihood from private sector army institutions like the fauji foundation and its companies. After punjabies the pashtoons are the biggest numbers in this.

However the leadership has changed from predominently pashtoon to almost none over the last 35 years. Just like pashtoons trapped in say marxist or talib kabul, or persianized court previously, what can the common man do, run, and if yes than where.

With all this baggage, pushtoons still have the best hope of global prosperity if in a secular, democratic system. I would love for afghanistan to join the united states (as a 53rd state) but that is not possible. We will have to do this state building ourselves. And in present world of national boundries such a state should comprise of pakistan pushton lands and afghanistan. Or two such autonomous regions. But our future with pakistan is grim.

[BLS_1919v2.0]

Having strong connections with pashtoons both in afghanistan and pakistan I can assure some of you that your assessment is a little off.

First, ISI is a criminal organization and these peaple should be taken to Hague. Like the Nazis, have the generals all lined up and do a nuremburg style inquisition. The foot soldier can be rehabilitated.

Secondly, their is an impression in afghanistan, that pashtoons in pakhtunkhwa have it made. This may have been relatively true in the 80's and 90's this is no longer true in 2000's. The pakistani pashtun is worse than afghanistan. The army has total control on all aspects of life. You can rebel, but how much. Those of us yapping on this forum (talking about pakistani pashtoons) do so from western countries, secure in our anonimity. If we were talking openly in pakistan you would be long dead and atleast ostracised.

The taliban movement started by a retired general from pakhtunkhwa (forgot his name was from near noshera) who is a multimillionaire. The whole wahabization of pashtoons is a process preferrred by the paki army. It allows them access to arab money and gives them legitimacy to control an impoverished ethnically different population.

Before 1975 a pashtoon in present khyber pakhtunkhwa was more free, had more avenues of economic progress. I am not sure about the pashtoons in afghanistan(have no direct knowledge) . Now a pashtoon is mostly a slave, or at the very least a pawn in someone elses hand.

The main method of pakistani army, beside direct recruiting to the army cadres is through proxy institutions like the taliban. All the major pakistani and afghanistan talibans are or were directly and indirectly under their control and still are.

Lastly Pakistan army is a huge institution, with over a million men. In addition over 10% of the pakistan families have their livelihood from private sector army institutions like the fauji foundation and its companies. After punjabies the pashtoons are the biggest numbers in this.

However the leadership has changed from predominently pashtoon to almost none over the last 35 years. Just like pashtoons trapped in say marxist or talib kabul, or persianized court previously, what can the common man do, run, and if yes than where.

With all this baggage, pushtoons still have the best hope of global prosperity if in a secular, democratic system. I would love for afghanistan to join the united states (as a 53rd state) but that is not possible. We will have to do this state building ourselves. And in present world of national boundries such a state should comprise of pakistan pushton lands and afghanistan. Or two such autonomous regions. But our future with pakistan is grim.

Peera the general was Babar I believe from Pirpaii...aghae ba waell che taliban zamaa da guthae khabaraa da or something to that extent. Khabara da army laas shwaa nu bilkil roghaa daa....pa pashtunkhwa kae PATAs, FATAs, FR ao peshawar ham da army laas laandae dae. They have imposed a harsh writ in areas like Swat and buner, as well as tribal areas.

Pakistan's own future is grim...which is why I ask some khaan samaa pathans that why do they want to attach our land's future to a sinking ship which has sold us out to a call from armitage and dollars. We need to look outside of this context. Glad you brought this up. Manana

[Baygham]

Amna thousands just from malakand division went and fought on the initial attacks on Afghanistan. That is unfair that you are comparing peshawar city with the rest of pashtunkhwa.

Well those fooled from malakand were actually fooled by an ISI proxy, still at large under their protection.

It is however a common misconception to equate the pashtoons in pakhtunkhwa with those in or from peshawar and the afghan ones with those in and around kabul.

After all they have the more access to computers. The reality cannot be further from the truth. a pashtoon from swabi has a lot more common with the pashtoon living between kabul and jalalabad, than with a pashtun in pakistanized families of peshawar or persianized families in kabul.(not all are, dont take it personally- I have many cousins that are pakistanized too and I speak fluent Urdu)

AS the punjabis say (roughly translated). 'everyone is naked in a large bath house)

[BLS_1919v2.0]

Well those fooled from malakand were actually fooled by an ISI proxy, still at large under their protection.

It is however a common misconception to equate the pashtoons in pakhtunkhwa with those in or from peshawar and the afghan ones with those in and around kabul.

After all they have the more access to computers. The reality cannot be further from the truth. a pashtoon from swabi has a lot more common with the pashtoon living between kabul and jalalabad, than with a pashtun in pakistanized families of peshawar or persianized families in kabul.(not all are, dont take it personally- I have many cousins that are pakistanized too and I speak fluent Urdu)

AS the punjabis say (roughly translated). 'everyone is naked in a large bath house)

They were fooled and that is why they all long for the good ol days "wali swat bachayee"...da pashtano loii ghalthii (che badae wrazae pa nae raaghalae nu odhaa wee nu che paa rasshee nu byaa sthomaana).

That is the biggest misconception people lar au bar generally equate kabul and peshawar as the end all be all. When in reality the areas in between and around are your typical Pashtun areas. You basically summed up that part well.

[شمله ور خراساني]

NATO tankers are constantly attacked near peshawar and khyber agency...so there goes that. The issue isn't that they are not supporting, the problem is that there are two diverging thoughts. One sees Karzai as legitimate and NATO as legitimate in the sense that the people attacking tankers and fighting are ISI agents. You will argue that isn't the case. This is the essence of it all so don't bring the character of Pashutnkhwa in it manana. Ka zanae jung tha larr shee waee ISI agentaan dee..nu da ham paighour kaee ao tha ham kae. Ajjb khabaraa da.

About save a few gallant people...well many many are fighting, at the initial invasion of Afghanistan thousands just from swat, dir, buner and shangla went to fight under the calling of that idiot Sufi Mohammad. So again don't generalize.

If you an issue with porn theatres or some other people fine fair enough. Those are wrong and so are those people calling Afghanistan Pashtuns mahajir.

About the youtube ddamthob...majority Pashtuns don't like it, but it is a reality. It is like charss....many decent people dislike it, but it doesn't mean it isnt a reality. Next time save us and yourself the time and don't generalize. Manana

You are downplaying the reality.

The turth is Pashtuns in Pashtunkhwa have been occupied and subjugated by the British raj for far too long. Especially the people of Peshawar who have lost their Pashtun or Muslim identity. Most of them are proud Pakistani Nationalists.

And Akbarkhan has braught up a good point. Why is it that Pashtuns in Pashtunkhwa use the word Muhajir as an Insult? Its because in Pashtunkhwa they have even lost solidarity with their muslim brethren. So they think those who flee the taghoot are inferior people who seek shelter elsewhere.

Besides, who are you to be bragging about the people of swat and buner who faught the Americans in Afghanistan? You are the one accusing every opposition to Americans as ISI instigated. So are you saying that you are taking pride in the fact that men from your region were instigated by ISI to go and spill their blood in Afghanistan?

Most important, Pashtuns Nationalists who oppose Pakistan in Pashtunkhwa are the biggest enemies of Afghanistan. They are the ones who praise and support Karzai. They are the ones who have allied themselves with the Americans and Zardari against Afghans. They are the ones who sheltered Communist geberals of the Communist regime after 1992 in Quetta and Peshawar and gave them new ID cards hiding their identity. They are the ones who use to blow up markets and refugee camps in Peshawar to scare the Afghan refugees and to stop them from going back to Afghanistan for fighting the Russians.

The Afghans have not been betrayed by anyone as much as they have been betrayed by Pashtun Nationalists of Pashtunkhwa. And hte Pakistani Nationalist Pashtuns.

While your singers and dancers in Peshawar sing of " د مينې ګنډيری دې ما له راکړه " you people come here and talk of pashto and pashtunwali.

[BLS_1919v2.0]

You are downplaying the reality.

The turth is Pashtuns in Pashtunkhwa have been occupied and subjugated by the British raj for far too long. Especially the people of Peshawar who have lost their Pashtun or Muslim identity. Most of them are proud Pakistani Nationalists.

And Akbarkhan has braught up a good point. Why is it that Pashtuns in Pashtunkhwa use the word Muhajir as an Insult? Its because in Pashtunkhwa they have even lost solidarity with their muslim brethren. So they think those who flee the taghoot are inferior people who seek shelter elsewhere.

Besides, who are you to be bragging about the people of swat and buner who faught the Americans in Afghanistan? You are the one accusing every opposition to Americans as ISI instigated. So are you saying that you are taking pride in the fact that men from your region were instigated by ISI to go and spill their blood in Afghanistan?

Most important, Pashtuns Nationalists who oppose Pakistan in Pashtunkhwa are the biggest enemies of Afghanistan. They are the ones who praise and support Karzai. They are the ones who have allied themselves with the Americans and Zardari against Afghans. They are the ones who sheltered Communist geberals of the Communist regime after 1992 in Quetta and Peshawar and gave them new ID cards hiding their identity. They are the ones who use to blow up markets and refugee camps in Peshawar to scare the Afghan refugees and to stop them from going back to Afghanistan for fighting the Russians.

The Afghans have not been betrayed by anyone as much as they have been betrayed by Pashtun Nationalists of Pashtunkhwa. And hte Pakistani Nationalist Pashtuns.

While your singers and dancers in Peshawar sing of " د مينې ګنډيری دې ما له راکړه " you people come here and talk of pashto and pashtunwali.

First of all, Sangar I know Peshawar a lot better than you. Also, Pashtunkhwa is split into many political entities...not all were fully subjugated. FATA, PATA areas were not. They were for the most part independent entities (in the case of swat and Dir they were outside the writ of Pakistna till 69). I studied there as well, and it was during their peak pakistaniyath...so I am aware of the situation quite well (lolz I am downplayin reality...sareeya za che altha khwanzee tha thlamm na da Pashtunkhwa pashtunkhwa khabarae waae ao na da strategic depth...agha wakht kae khalk dasae odhaa woo..da Sufi mohammad che daa loba waa daa da 90s na altha leegyaa wa..daa da aghae wakht khabarae dee khaana). I don't need you to tell me things that I am aware of and I sure as hell don't need a history lesson.

Why do Peshawriyaan think mahajir is an insult? Good question. They didn't treat any of the refugees any better, whether east or west of the durand line. Like me and baygham told you, peshawar does not equal the rest of Pashtunkhwa. Was Swat occupied by British? Was Dir? Was Waziristan? Settled districts are an entirely different political entity than those areas. They have not been under the traditional writ of Britain, barely under their own Mohammadzai kings and recently under Pakistans.

About the swat people fighitng in Afghanistan...well clearly you don't understand my posts. If you did you would have noticed that I said that those who fight are considered ISI agents by one group, and those that don't are considered bae-pakhto. If they fight half of them are called agentaan and if they don't , some say they don't care about Pashtuns. So when Amna said where were the Pashtunkhwa pashtuns, I gave her an example. What you all want to make out of it is your business not mine. No skin off my back.

About nationalists...they did bad, so did the mujahideen, so did the ISI, so did Khad. You can criticize them all you want...fine by me. They all betrayed Afghanistan and they sure as hell made a hell hole out of Pashtunkhwa. You can't eat the cake and have it too Sangar. You can't have everything and nothing at the same time.

[abubaker]

Well Taliban work for ISI and we know what they have contributed to our broken society.

Oh when will Pashtuns wake up and start eradicating these ISI virus inflicted upon our society, while the world progresses and moves on, we are stuck in stone age.

Kind Regards

only after you eradicate your uncle

gota lead by example bro