Future Secular Pukhtoon State and Pornography Laws

[Abdul Haq]

I do seriously not understand the motive behind the Thread? what do you want to prevail, Secularism, Athiesm, pornography? Believe me that i have not heard such stuped insulting thing from any of my pashtoon brothers. what can i do is to ask Almighty Allah to advice these kind of people and direct them to the only Right Path.

Regards

[Michin Khel]

I do seriously not understand the motive behind the Thread? what do you want to prevail, Secularism, Athiesm, pornography? Believe me that i have not heard such stuped insulting thing from any of my pashtoon brothers. what can i do is to ask Almighty Allah to advice these kind of people and direct them to the only Right Path.

Regards

Actually you are thick in head so you are unable to understand meaning between lines

[JAMALUDEEN]

Really? What does being "legal" mean? That you can be a homosexual? Dude, you have never heard of Muslim homosexuals IN Muslim countries? It's a rising phenomenon. Just because they're not "allowed" to be homosexuals doesn't make it illegal. They might be ostracized or killed, JUST like homosexuals in secularist countries were until the last couple of decades, but that doesn't guarantee anything.

And and and ... it's marriage that's more important in discourses on homosexuality: It's illegal in all except three states in the U.S. alone. I'm not sure about its laws in other secularist countries, though.

Marriage is just a legal contract in a western society, where upon divorce the wife steals away half of the hubbies "assets" and leaves. Why would homosexuals want marriage rights? They can already mingle around. They already have their rights. Marriage is a dying money eating ritual in the west.

[Wrayun]

Wrayun your thinking is very flawed if you think secularism always leads to pornography and other imoral things.

What if someone wanted to, based on what will you establish laws against it?

If the people in a secular state oppose certain things they make laws forbidding those certain things.

What if people opposed atheists?

In the USA where each state, county and city has jurisdiction over certain laws the more conservative states, counties and cities DO ban things such as alcohol, gambling and the production or distribution of pornography in those particular places.

LULZ! Name those states.

From reading your posts it appears as if you think being in a secular society a person can do whatever they want and that is far from true.

Yet, they accuse me of misunderstanding secularism and atheism. You don't believe in individual rights? What about consenting adults? Why shouldn't a person be free to do what they want as long as they are not hurting anyone? What kind of a secular state is that.

[Feroza_Banu]

hmmm... interesting thread...

I just want to make a point that the secular countries that have banned pronography or homosexuality is considered illegle... have made this decision keeping the religious ones in mind.

America and most of the countries in europe has a strong religious base... America (since i have lived here for the past 10 years, so i should know) is a country full of hardline christians and most of the politicians are hardline christians.

The moral values that exist in these societies are based on religious values.... nothing else

[JAMALUDEEN]

I don't know about every secular society so I can only answer for mine.

In my state all homosexual acts are considered crimes though people who willingly do them obviously don't go report them to the police. Most people in my state do not approve of homosexuality and you would NEVER see things like people do in San Francisco or other liberal American cities. Except for one place in Nevada I think prostitution is a crime in the USA.

Yes I called him that & as long as he keeps bringing up incest, adultery, prostitution, rape, pornography and using words best left to describe changing a light bulb I feel justified in doing so.

Solicitation is not a crime in USA. There are brothels and strip joints every where. It really depends though, maybe solicitation outside brothels might not be legal, etc. In Sydney, for example we have Kingscross. This is where you will find the biggest Bikie Gangs, prostitution, homosexuals, drugs and crime. Solicitation is not allowed outside brothels in here.

Let's not go off-topic.

Musafia Jan, i thought you believed in freedom of speech and freedom of choice. Why do you hate what Wrayun is proposing?

[Wrayun]

Really? Why don't you enlighten us, then? I suppose everyone here who's against this thread is thick in the head and that's why can't understand the meaning of this thread.

Oh, btw... you have yet to actually contribute to this discussion.

Why don't you enlighten us since you know about secularism, and understand atheists far much better than we do?

Please tell, in the secular Pukhtoonn state you propose (or support) that will accommodate for religious minorities, peoples sexual orientation, equality of the sexes, will I be allowed to pursuit this adventure?

Don't ask me what I know about secularism, teach me from what you know how you will deal with this subject.

[Michin Khel]

Athiests will be never welcomed by conservative pashtuns of pakhtunkhwa. Members like Qrratugai, toramana and bulgham are in delusion that they are pashtuns.
You all should repeat kalma again.

[Wrayun]

I neither believe in nor practice double standards. Mind giving me specific examples, like reference to exact posts in which I have supported anyone who issued insults against anyone, no matter how respectable and important?

Millions of times, other moderators and I have stressed the point that ANY TIME you see something insulting, you should report it so it can be dealt with. When did someone insult the Prophet? Why didn't you report it, or at least contact a moderator or Admin Khan? And when did I ever support anyone who did this?

I didn't have to report anything. Admin Khan was doing his job, he took care of it. Thanks for everything though.

Oh, and being a moderator doesn't take away my right of replying to you. I choose to reply to you -- because, like you and everyone else, I have some very strong beliefs. I disagree with you on several grounds, and I don't see why expressing this to you openly should be a problem for anyone.

When you chose to reply to me, did you even bother to notice that I was being called a dalal (which was in fact a reply to your very own post by baygham)?

[Wrayun]

hmmm... interesting thread...

I just want to make a point that the secular countries that have banned pronography or homosexuality is considered illegle... have made this decision keeping the religious ones in mind.

America and most of the countries in europe has a strong religious base... America (since i have lived here for the past 10 years, so i should know) is a country full of hardline christians and most of the politicians are hardline christians.

The moral values that exist in these societies are based on religious values.... nothing else

In America many of the porn stars are Christians. Reformed Christianity has no issue with pornography, as long as you have Jesus in your heart and believe he died for your sins, you can do what ever you please.

Much of the industry is controlled by secular Jews. Some of the very well known pornographers are Jews.

This is not about which religion condones this or not. This is not a religious discussion. This is about a secular Pukhtoon state, and the subject of pornography in light of such a state.

[Feroza_Banu]

^I wasn't intending to answer your question... my post was general.

[Wrayun]

Athiests will be never welcomed by conservative pashtuns of pakhtunkhwa. Members like Qrratugai, toramana and bulgham are in delusion that they are pashtuns.
You all should repeat kalma again.

Atheists should be respected for their beliefs. I am not against atheists, I know very fine people that are atheists. However, I am intrigued about the atheists here and their beliefs, in particular those who wish to establish a nationalist secular Pukhtoon state. This was a simple proposal of a circumstance, the possibility of which in such a secular state is very likely. I only suggested, imagine someone actually went for it.

The way I went about it was to get a reaction. Though the reaction I got just from the secularists and atheists alone was unexpected. It wasn't civilized, rational, and certainly shows they lack a sense of humor.

Yet when it comes to religious articles or figures of the Pukhtoon masses, their posts are full of halva khors, daal khors, beards, mullah tis, mullah that etc.

[Wrayun]

So according to you a secularist and atheistic Pashtun govt has to adopt to such cheap means? Am I understanding you correctly? I think your thread is thought provoking and great since it carries a hidden meaning.

I guess you want me to answer this.

It all depends. They don't necessarily have to approve of this. Though they'll have to explain why. That's what we are waiting for.

[Levanaye Zalmaye]

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[Musafira]

This was a simple proposal of a circumstance, the possibility of which in such a secular state is very likely. .

I find it absurd that you think that (a porn business)would ever be "very likely" in a secular Pashtun state.

Even secular governments put limits/restrictions on people via laws and I consider it highly UNLIKELY that a law in favor of pornography business would ever be passed even in a secular Pashtun state. Just because a state has a separation between religion and government does not mean that govt is not influenced by the religion of the majority. Even in the USA many laws came from/evolved from Christian beliefs so in a Pashtun secular government I would expect to see laws derived or taken directly from Islam. For example most Christian holidays all USA govt. institutions are closed. People take an oath on the Bible or other Holy book when they testify in court. For being secular there is a lot of religion in our govt in my opinion and I am okay with that. I am not anti-religion. Is there any secular society that is truly completely free from religious influence?

As for the athiests on this forum I have never seen them try to convert people to athiesm and if/when they insult Islam I DO report those posts. I could care less if someone is an atheist, Buddhist, Hindu, Jew or whatever as long as they respect my religion I'll respect theirs (or lack of one) and that is how I think it should be.