Future Secular Pukhtoon State and Pornography Laws

[BLS_1919v2.0]

Marriage is just a legal contract in a western society, where upon divorce the wife steals away half of the hubbies "assets" and leaves. Why would homosexuals want marriage rights? They can already mingle around. They already have their rights. Marriage is a dying money eating ritual in the west.

Uhmm there is something called a pre-nup and smart people sign that...the idiots who think every gold digger really loves them do the exact opposite. Marriage is also a legal contract in Islam, but has spiritual benefits and rulings as well. BTW I am not here to support homosexuality or pornography.

[Wrayun]

Levanaye Zalmaye,

And I thought you were better than this:

This is the mentality that the thread is based upon. It's disgusting. And I'm sure many Muslims would find this chain of thought very disturbing. What's with you and sex anyway?

Now if you would like, address the issue as an atheist and a secularist in light of a secular Pukhtoon sate, instead of giving us an historical khutba.

[Wrayun]

I find it absurd that you think that (a porn business) would ever be "very likely" in a secular Pashtun state.

At one point, the thought of Pukhtoon atheists was also impossible. Things change fast. Expect the unexpected.

Even secular governments put limits/restrictions on people via laws and I consider it highly UNLIKELY that a law in favor of pornography business would ever be passed even in a secular Pashtun state.

Highly unlikely doesn't rule out the possibility of the rare likelihood of its happening.

Just because a state has a separation between religion and government does not mean that govt is not influenced by the religion of the majority.

Beats the purpose of a secular state. What if the majority supports the death penalty for apostates?

Even in the USA many laws came from/evolved from Christian beliefs so in a Pashtun secular government I would expect to see laws derived or taken directly from Islam. For example most Christian holidays all USA govt. institutions are closed. People take an oath on the Bible or other Holy book when they testify in court. For being secular there is a lot of religion in our govt in my opinion and I am okay with that. I am not anti-religion. Is there any secular society that is truly completely free from religious influence?

Not true. Most laws that derive from biblical beliefs are challenged constantly, and in secular courts they rarely hold a chance of being passed. In the US, there aren't many laws that are derived from the bible. If there were, pornography for once, wouldn't be legal. Recently in California when religiously motivated majority voted against homosexual rights to marriage, a secular judge considered it necessary to veto the rulings.

[Levanaye Zalmaye]

Levanaye Zalmaye,

Wrayun,

Now if you would like, address the issue as an atheist and a secularist in light of a secular Pukhtoon sate, instead of giving us an historical khutba.

You made this thread under the assumption that people outside religion would not object to pornography. The assumption is wrong, at least with regards to myself and the rest of the non-believers on PF. It is against our ghairat.

[Wrayun]

Wrayun,

You made this thread under the assumption that people outside religion would not object to pornography. The assumption is wrong, at least with regards to myself and the rest of the non-believers on PF. It is against our ghairat.

Ghairat is an Islamic and bedioun concept. You closet bedioun Islamist!

Nonetheless, I need an answer as far as this proposed secular state is concerned and the laws on which it will be governed.

Bold part: You speak for all of them?

[Levanaye Zalmaye]

Wrayun,

Ghairat is an Islamic and bedioun concept. You closet bedioun Islamist!

Nonetheless, I need an answer as far as this proposed secular state is concerned and the laws on which it will be governed.

Bold part: You speak for all of them?

There's room for one more in my closet... no one's watching... The concept of ghairat exists in every society, regardless of the level of adherence amongst its inhabitants in regards to religious rituals.

Within the liberal democratic framework, the people are sovereign. They make their own rules. Before coming to any conclusions though, you should read the entire paragraph. Now direct democracies can be a little problematic. For instance, the Swiss population voted to ban minarets, which is essentially taking away someone else's freedom through the ballot box. Jamaat-e-Islami wishes to do the same through indirect democracy - win enough seats in parliament to introduce its version of Shariah. In Algeria, had the Islamic Salvation Front won in 1992 through elections, those would've been the last elections in Algerian history. So the democratic process itself can be overthrown through democratic means! Therefore, there should be safeguards against this - for instance, a body that ensures the continuation of secular ideals and the democratic process. I like the Turkish model in this regard.

However, the best safeguard is education. Democracies are best suited for educated societies where the institutions of democracies are strong. Education is the best way of ensuring the continuity of the democratic process. If we look at 19th century European history, we find that all the revolutions that aimed to bring about secular and liberal change were only made possible after knowledge had become widespread.

Now if Pashtuns somehow break the chains of slavery that bind them today and manage to create a state, implement effective education policies and build a prosperous society, I still do not see them enacting laws that legalize porn. Perhaps after 200 years, they might - who knows? Right now, there's no sign of any Pashtun remotely interested in regulating and taxing a legal porn industry. There is a thriving home-grown porn black market in Peshawar, by the way. Our people are shy about these things.

I don't speak for anyone but myself. In this regards though, they've already made their positions clear and hence the sweeping statement from me.

[akbarkhan]

So according to you a secularist and atheistic Pashtun govt has to adopt to such cheap means?

Brave 'Pukhtoons' run porn theaters in Peshawar, these brave and honourable Pukhtoons who own cinema theaters are all political leaders, secularists!

Outside the poster says "Pukhto rangeen film Warka Dang", inside something else goes on. It is an open secret!

[BehavedMaseed]

Communists banned pornography and they were more asthist than secularists. They banned relgion and even the sex trade.

Wrayun probably lives in a Secular Country and I doubt he was forced to watch the pronography lol

[BehavedMaseed]

Brave 'Pukhtoons' run porn theaters in Peshawar, these brave and honourable Pukhtoons who own cinema theaters are all political leaders, secularists!

Outside the poster says "Pukhto rangeen film Warka Dang", inside something else goes on. It is an open secret!

Brave Jihadists and Lovers of Shariat run Suicide bombing Camps where children as little as 8 get taught about 72 virgins and rivers of milk, They get taught to kill the shias and slaughter those who insult Islam.

SO keep your failed attempts of JUI F propaghanda to yourselves. Just because Pashtuns booted out these Mullahs doesnt mean you bring the ills of every society and blaime it on secularists.

Akber Khan visit Pashtunkhw some time, got to rehab clinics and ask the young boys who was trained as sucide bombers how much they were sexually abused by their trainers I gues since your a blind followers of Taliban living in the west, you wont accept anything.

Kind Regards

[PFgulalai]

Hi there, my name is Wrayun. I am a Pukhtoon entrepreneur. I wish to inquire about this fantastic future secular state that some have proposed. According to some I don't know much about atheism or secularism. I probably don't, so here I am, all ears.

A buddy of mine tells me that pornographic smut is good business (even at times of great economic depression). He has heard a lot about our Pukhtoon women and their uncompromising exotic beauty. Scholars and orientalists alike have written about it. Our neighbors, friends and foes, tease their own women with praises for ours. This niche isn't explored, and due to the scarcity of authentic Pukhtoon flesh in the porn industry, we believe that this will be EPIC and totally CASH!

We hope to start our new porn production soon. With us is a handsome negriod performer (rumor is he is well endowed), anxious to be the first in the industry to participate in this one of a kind erotic adventure.

The title of our production: Zangli Apashi oh Mastay Peghlay

To the point: Do we (or will we) have the FREEDOM, in your (future) SECULAR STATE, to pursuit and explore our (such) entrepreneurial ambitions?

Hello Wrayun, my name is gulalai and I have been (self-)assigned the duty to discuss the decision on your "ambitious plan" by the "Committee on provision of basic rights and personal freedom" of the Secular State of Pashtuns.
I must disappoint you big time that the secular state of Pashtuns has rejected your "proposal" on the following grounds:

"We already have much better proposals submitted by other "buddies" who are going to empower our beautiful Pashtane with education and awareness rather than pleasing you and your servants. These pragmatic proposals are aimed at alleviating the problems of maternal health, the associated morbidity and mortality with childbirth, polio vaccination (since some of your "buddies" stopped the vaccination drive few years back), free education for children, construction of educational institutions, libraries, a national Pashto Language institute and modern languages, amusement parks for children, and vocational centers for women besides plenty of other practical gains.

Also, the secular Qrratugai, Musafira, Baygham, BehavedMaseed and some atheists including myself and Levanaye Zalmeye have blatantly refused your lackluster ambitious plan because it is against Pashtunwali.Also, it has tendency to exploit men, women,children, and animals as sexual objects. Since secularists are misjudged as "immoralists", we decided to conduct a big survey through our Anthropology department to know the response of secular Pastuns to such unnecessary law.In response, many asked us to concentrate on the problem of poverty, unemployment, illiteracy, and polio first than to think about pornography. The responses of the secular pashtuns as concluded by the committee (comprising of Apshi, Mastey Pehghlay, Lewanye, Musafeeran, Spaghettian, Haqqan, hinduans, budduistaans, shiagaans,) that the prevailing sentiments are against the consideration of your business proposal. The voices are those of secularists and they are considering it tantamount to attack on "Pashtun ghairat".These include men and women belonging to XYZ religions and ABC atheism.A significant number of women are of the view that porn legalization can risk their marital life when the men would demand them to perform particular sexual acts that they download every night.Also, they think that since porn was also accessible in the past (in the Islamic republic) without any law, there is no need to spend taxpayer money.

Mr.Wrayun, we, hereby, unanimously refuse your proposal. Personally, I want to tell you that the deragatory nature of your "proposal for marketing the flesh of Pashtane" has incurred the wrath of the female in me in the strongest possible manner and some like "ghairati Baygham" gave you a reply that you deserved, but nonetheless, since we consider ourselves secular we will allow the freedom of speech as long as your intention is to "educate" yourself.You, however, should bear in mind that freedom of speech does not allow you to think that anything considered "immoral" (according to the basic model of morality and ethics) would be allowed under secularism.And before you question the moral belief of the secularists, let me tell you that it is as simple as "what is the "good" or the "bad" thing to do as human? "Don't harm others" or "don't kill others" is an example of universally accepted moral belief system. We follow this and with the help of this we are able to protect both the rights of all muslims (belonging to X,Y,Z sects) as our majority but also the minorities who has now returned back to their Pashtun land and are living happily with their muslim brothers.

lulz...eveyrthing looks so peaceful and nice in this secular state compared to the current one..oh yes, you were talking about the likelihood of something to someone here??? Let me tell ya, anything could be potentially possible. People once thought that there is a paticular antibiotic on the second wing of the fly that drops in your tea and can treat your disease. Only if Flemming had known it before....If you think the secular Pashtun state will kill a non-believer, then what is the probability that a secular Pashtun state will also legalize the pornography law?

And now....wake up call for you!

Hello, the dweller of clouds, I have heard your persistent dwelling in the clouds have clouded your grey matter as well. In your chronic state of confusion about secularism, atheism, and Pashtunwali, let me tell you that atheism ("godless") does not mean antitheism (opposition to god).Also,secularism does not mean running naked on roads and fornicating relentlessly with every single woman and allowing pornography. Giving people the right to practice whatever belief system does not justify the trafficking of Pashtnae to Middle eastern Sheikhan and Pakistani Punjabian.

To those who are wandering for the "deep,hidden,concealed pearls of wisdom" in the shell of Wrayun's post

There is no "pata khazana" or "useful" purpose behind the thread in my opinion.In simple words, Wrayun finds out that some atheist Pashtuns are calling his religion archaic (and many other things) and calling Pashtunwali more modern in its approach than the 7th century Islam.These atheists Pashtus call themselves "modern" and "secular".[Wrayun in the state of chaos]"Hmmm let me bring their "true" face hidden under the shrouds of so-called modernity to the world of PF by asking them the MOST difficult question, with a special emphasis on ridiculing their women in the same manner that they ridiculed my belief system, my God, and my Prophet."

Wrayun, bear in mind that ghairat does not originate from God (I am telling you because you have asked us.I see an enthusiastic learner here). You can see the concept of ghairat even in animals, only if you know the "concept".Go attack the ghairat of a donkey and you will see the response in the form of a decent kick.By the way, you could have tested your logical fallacy by asking secularists whether they would "legalize Sharab" since "sharab" is another haraam thing, kana singa? What about questioning secularists about the "freedom of action"--Will you, the YOUNG FLESHY Pashtaney allow the genocide since you believe in secularism?"What's up with the "extreme" obsession with the flesh of Pashtane?

ATTENTION: YOUNG secular Pukhtoon females! We are looking for qualifying participants. Pay is very good. We promise to make your intro into the business smooth and easy. Leave a reply if interested.

Yeah, my YOUNG secular ghairte she-dog just heard about your offer through PF and she seems to be interested in making a promising future for you.

[BehavedMaseed]

This is especially for akber khan



My uncle is a Major in ISPR and He was present there, he said there were also naked pictures of young girls on the walls as well, this was a training suicide camp owned by Afghan Taliban. Akber Khan there is no secularist here who supports pornography, we find it degrading of the basic womans honour, you islamists support and look down upon women as being less powerful in the mind and only lower than a man.

But here you guys brainwash little boys, there is proven and true incidents where by your Talibs raped and molestered innocent young boys daily in those camps.

Kind Regards

[Baygham]

its a degenerate conversation and however hard I will refrain from maternal references in future.

Lesson learned. Dont get a knee jerk reaction when incited to degenerate illogical conclusions. Stick to your guns, stay your path and be as ruthless and steadfast as your enemy if not more. Our enemy has been for quite some time and still remains paid collaboraters of outside powers some under the guise of religion and some democracy

[Michin Khel]

It doesnt matter that athiests can contribute to pashtuns or not, because they will not be accepted by pashtuns at first place.

But as a matter of fact athiests cant be dangerous for pashtun society, the real danger is from religous extremists like akbar khan. Pashtuns have already suffered from these religous bigots, how much further?

[Wrayun]

gulalai:

Hello Wrayun, my name is gulalai and I have been (self-)assigned......

FAIL! (not very secular)

Do you really think that the rest of your rhetorical contextual diarrhea deserve a serious reply? I think not.

So far, not a single one of you have addressed this issue seriously. Instead, all I have gotten is personal attacks. I am crazy, my mother deserved that treatment, I am a dalal, I am paid, I am they enemy, I am jealous of Pukhtoonwale (all the while I am trying to defend it and protect it) etc. etc.

You people seriously think that you are educated? You don't even realize that with this sort of attitude you fail in epic proportions.

Oh btw, the donkey in our village never showed any ghairat when the kharkar beat it silly. Plus comparing the concept of ghairat to donkeys kick in itself is an insult of Pukhtoons and Pukhtoonwale.

[Wrayun]

its a degenerate conversation and however hard I will refrain from maternal references in future.

Lesson learned. Dont get a knee jerk reaction when incited to degenerate illogical conclusions. Stick to your guns, stay your path and be as ruthless and steadfast as your enemy if not more. Our enemy has been for quite some time and still remains paid collaboraters of outside powers some under the guise of religion and some democracy

No no no you are switching roles here. It is my job, as a religious nut to be making references to peoples mothers, calling people paid collaborators, and promoting all sorts of other conspiracies. Not yours.

And what is this Our Enemy? Are you making takfir against me? How dare you, thats my job!

You can refer to my mother all you want, she is an old Pukhtoon lady, she will make dua for your health.