I would like to join a Pashtun Nationalistic Party

[Toramana]

You can fight for your rights without nationalism...

One guy was arguing wid me about nationalism, he said i need nationalism so i can do good for my country.

I was like i am not a nationalist, but which ever corner of the world i will work in, i will be honest, i will help people and i will not do fraud. Tell me is that not a good service you are doing for that country?? I will raise my children to not be rude, to not be anti-social and so on. Again these things will not be good no matter which world you live in? So why do we nationalism to make our country better...

If you teach each individual how to be a proper human being, how to be productive and how to be good...no matter where he is in the world, he will be doing a positive thing, which means a positive thing for the country

This is utter nonsense. Nationalism is not anti-thetical to the attributes you have stated. I know you are twisting concepts to make them fit your circumstances i.e., life on a foreign land where you are not a historical member of the indigenous nation i.e., the British or whatever nation. This startegy may be appropriate for you to integrate in the host culture but this not appropraite for mainland Pashtuns who are in competition with othe nations in the region for collective survival.

Collective rights i.e., control over one's land, its resources, and one's destiny cannot be won without nationalism. Nationalism means awareness about one's right and obligations to one's land and society.

We are not living in a utopian world that you are fantasizing about but in a world wehere survival of the stronger is the rule and where the weaker perishes.

By the way why do you come to this forum? Your good demeanour that you preach so much here should enable you to be part of any community.

[Saifullah]

I didn't join this forum coz i am a nationalist....Pashtuns do not have a nation anywayz and i do not think anything will change if they get a nation ONLY for pashtuns.

I am a pashtun and no matter where i live i will be one. The same way I will always be a muslim no matter where i live. I can speak pashto and pashtuns have their own culture separate from others. We were created in tribes because the world would be a dull place if there was no variety and cultures are a great form of variety.

That is not to say i agree with everything in my culture, but anyway your utter nonsense is the reason why pashtuns will never get anywhere. They focus on ideas which are way beyond them and forget their first steps towards achievement.

[Saifullah]

Also i think you have symptoms of paranoia where u think everybody is out there to destroy you. The only people who can destroy u is yourself so point fingers at yourself and not others. You want pashtuns to move forward?? If so, then we should look at our people and see where they falter. It is not the fault of punjabis when pashtuns kill eachother. It is not the fault of persians that pashtuns have low literacy rates and many of their women are un-educated. This is the fault of our society and instead of them joining parties, they need to fix their HOMES. Charity starts at HOME....So if you wanna be strong, you got to make yourself strong. Changing of ones character is an important point no matter where you live. If a pashtun steals from his people, then why preach nationalism? Preach to him to stop doing such an evil act

[Saifullah]

I do not need nationalism to tell me how to help people or how to give people rights...alhamdulilah we all know about what rights women should have, what rights our wife should have, what rights a husband has, what right flowers have and so on. This is in our faith...not nationalism

[Toramana]

I didn't join this forum coz i am a nationalist....Pashtuns do not have a nation anywayz and i do not think anything will change if they get a nation ONLY for pashtuns.

I am a pashtun and no matter where i live i will be one. The same way I will always be a muslim no matter where i live. I can speak pashto and pashtuns have their own culture separate from others. We were created in tribes because the world would be a dull place if there was no variety and cultures are a great form of variety.

That is not to say i agree with everything in my culture, but anyway your utter nonsense is the reason why pashtuns will never get anywhere. They focus on ideas which are way beyond them and forget their first steps towards achievement.

Why are so cocksure to say that Pashtuns are not a nation? They are a nation in every sense of the word i.e., they are 40+ nillions people with common culture, language, history, territory, and shared memories of their past. In a traditional sense they are a nation. However, in the modern sense, their nationhood needs political expression.

And no nation on earth has waited indefinitely to become polished and skillful on individual level. Individual development has always gone hand-in-hand with collective political struggle. Obviously, you cannot issue certificate to Pashtuns that now you have achieved enough individual development and so political struggle should be started. This is ridiculous and stupid.

You are preaching the same thing as Punjabis preach in Pakistan i.e., politics is not good and there should be emphasis on personal development. They know what the political struggle of Bangalis (1971)did to them and what may the political awareness in other nationalities hold for them. In fact, all dictators and oppressors have preached the same thing as you are preaching.

[Sheenka]

some serious discussion here

*run away*

[Saifullah]

If Pakistanis were not zalimaan, bangladesh people would not have separated. Personal development rejects zulm!

SO NOPE, try to understand and stop twisting what i say. Personal development means to make yourself a proper human being and if you do that in accordance with Islam even better! Coz we are told many things in Islam to not even be cruel to animals and to not steal lands, or be unjust. So how can wat i preach be similar to what dictators and oppressors preach. Because oppression is totally opposite of wat i am saying!!!

[Toramana]

I do not need nationalism to tell me how to help people or how to give people rights...alhamdulilah we all know about what rights women should have, what rights our wife should have, what rights a husband has, what right flowers have and so on. This is in our faith...not nationalism

Ho, so now the cat is out of the bag. Are you some Hizbul Tahrir member on some Jehadi mission in Pukhtunkhwa?

What rights by the way? In Islam, it is valid to marry 4 women. Would you like your sister to be married to a person who already has 2 other wives or allow to marry a 3rd wife if he has your sister as a second wife.

In Islam slavery is allowed. Why should not you become my slave. I will treat you like my brother.

Politics is done to bring awareness in people about their rights as human. Were it not for political struggle in Europe, you would be living some medieval beduine life.

[Saifullah]

HAHAHAHAHA tobah....

In Islam you have to give inheritence and females get a share. In Islam you cannot force people to marry. In Islam you cannot marry more than one wife (like pashtuns do usually like eating ice cream) if you dont treat them equally and cannot provide equally. In Islam you cannot do zulm to animals, you cannot do fraud, you cannot steal and so on. Sorry Islam is a modern religion for all times and you are the backward person for thinking otherwise. I am not a member of any group so if you wanna debate please stop going off track with your lame attempts at jokes.

You mention such a serious topic in one line....how easy for you to do. If you wanna mention polygamy and slavery, thats another discussion by itself.

[Sheenka]

then why u fighting loool

[Saifullah]

Who is fighting

[Toramana]

If Pakistanis were not zalimaan, bangladesh people would not have separated. Personal development rejects zulm!

SO NOPE, try to understand and stop twisting what i say. Personal development means to make yourself a proper human being and if you do that in accordance with Islam even better! Coz we are told many things in Islam to not even be cruel to animals and to not steal lands, or be unjust. So how can wat i preach be similar to what dictators and oppressors preach. Because oppression is totally opposite of wat i am saying!!!

You are spitting the same nonsense over and over here. I alreadytold you we are not living in a utopian/ideal world where all people would live by the highest standard of morality. If it were possible so, there wouldn't have been the need for religions, laws, institutions, police, etc.

You have got a simple mind and cannot think beyond what your present thought limits are. True, in every human being there is a potential for doing good but at the same time there is also the potential for doing bad. That is why there is the need for law and police.

For your information there is whole branch of knowledge dedicated to that topic and that is called "ethics". All knowldege doesn't end with you monia and khulasa.

[Saifullah]

Yes that is where u have laws and rules!!! Which apply to all.....not apply for poor people and leaders it doesn't apply. I am not a 5 year old kid that you are teaching me about not living in a utopian world....but i am not a PRESIDENT of a country, you are deluded my friend. I am not a leader therefore i think on my own level, i don't think on a leadership level because its a waste of time. Tell me are you gonna make people make some new rules?

I preach wat i am able to do myself, not some grand idea about a nation...dream on

[Toramana]

HAHAHAHAHA tobah....

In Islam you have to give inheritence and females get a share.

Yes half of what a male can inherit. Still you brag about equality.

In Islam you cannot marry more than one wife (like pashtuns do usually like eating ice cream) if you dont treat them equally and cannot provide equally.

Wrong. 99% times, most Muslims marry without getting the consents of their present wives. As for equal treatment, one wonders how is that humanly possible. Even Rassullulah liked Ayisha more than other umhat-ul-momineens. I have concurred with a lot of knowledgeble Muslims and they have told me it is not necessary to get the consent of the existing wives to marry another woman.

In Islam you cannot do zulm to animals

At Eidul-Adha, millions of animals are slaughtered at once. So much for mercy on animals.

Sorry Islam is a modern religion for all times and you are the backward person for thinking otherwise. I am not a member of any group so if you wanna debate please stop going off track with your lame attempts at jokes.

Yes, that is why all Mulsim countries are so advanced and self-sufficient. They are also very just and free of oppression. Give me a practical example of the proverbial justice that you brag about here.

[Palwasha]

What rights by the way? In Islam, it is valid to marry 4 women. Would you like your sister to be married to a person who already has 2 other wives or allow to marry a 3rd wife if he has your sister as a second wife.

Show me another religion which puts a limit on the amount of spouses/wives that are allowed. In fact, quote any religous scripture and show me this.

Having one wife is not Christian, Jewish or Hindi law, it's the law of their countries.

In Islam slavery is allowed. Why should not you become my slave.

And exactly where does the bible/torah/sanscript prevent slavery?

Slave = Servant; FYI in Islam they have rights, and it is encouraged that slaves be set free.

Get real and stop taking things outta context.