Overplaying

[Insight]

What is funny about this whole thread is that is seems people are sad and crying about the possibility of the US leaving Afghanistan?

The Kabul regime served no other purpose for the US then being a rubber stamp for the war. Their staying or leaving has nothing to do with the PUPPET Kabul regime.

[khushal]

I thought you said you were not inclined to either side of this conflict.

Pakistan made the whole US war in Afghanistan possible with supply lines and use of airspace. That means the puppet Kabul regime is a byproduct of Pakistan support too.

If Taliban are Pakistani proxies then the Kabul regime would be a Pakistani super proxy because Pakistan made it possible for them to have the support of over 100000 US/NATO troops and aircraft at one time in this conflict. The Kabul regime is the rubber stamp of the US conflict. The Kabul regime are US proxies

Many of the MPs in the Afghan gov are ISI agents. RAW agents, Iran Agents, Russian Agents, CIA agents. The whole Afghan gov is bought and sold by all. We all talk about how the paki gov is a prostitute, the afghan gov is a copy of it with a much looser qwana.

[khushal]

What is funny about this whole thread is that is seems people are sad and crying about the possibility of the US leaving Afghanistan?

The Kabul regime served no other purpose for the US then being a rubber stamp for the war. Their staying or leaving has nothing to do with the PUPPET Kabul regime.

They are sad that their money making scheme might be coming to an end.

[khushal]

Despite my differences with the OP in the past, what he wrote is very insightful.

But the Talban's hubris is not surprising; and is more evidence that Taliban don't think or work for the interests of the welfare of the Afghan people which in turn is evidence that they don't think or work independently of Pakistani Military Establishment and the ISI.

There is no other reason to create such a sticking point than for pandering to Pakistan that sees Afghanistan with a unified government where all Afghan interests are brought to the table, including negotiations and relations with India .....as a threat to their interests ....

Maybe the Ghost of Mulla Umar can cook up some story about how he refused to drink from the Fountain of Kawthar in Jannah because he was so concerned that the poor Afghans couldn't be in heaven to drink with him.

Sitting with the afghan gov means they recognize it. They recognize themselves as the afghan gov who have a war with American occupiers. When the occupiers leave, they then declare victory over the occupiers and can then sit with who ever they want in the country. It then becomes an internal dispute.

The only Pakistani interest would be to not have relations with India therefore not a threat to them. Afghanistan should have never started the animosity with Pakistan from the beginning and they should have none today. That policy weakens our people. Those uneducated mullahs know this while a Phd like you fail to see it.

[maneatinglizard]

Many of the MPs in the Afghan gov are ISI agents. RAW agents, Iran Agents, Russian Agents, CIA agents. The whole Afghan gov is bought and sold by all. We all talk about how the paki gov is a prostitute, the afghan gov is a copy of it with a much looser qwana.

Nah Pakistan’s is looser lol. Even though Afghanistan has an installed puppet government full of stooges, it still shows some degree of independence sometimes.

I don’t think you’d see Ghani act as a taxi driver for Bin Salman, or any of the other embarrassing slave-like behavior exhibited by Pakistani officials. On the other hand, Iraq’s puppets at least had it in them to refuse giving savage American soldiers free reign in their country unlike Ghani and Abdullah.

[Insight]

Nah Pakistan’s is looser lol. Even though Afghanistan has an installed puppet government full of stooges, it still shows some degree of independence sometimes.

I don’t think you’d see Ghani act as a taxi driver for Bin Salman, or any of the other embarrassing slave-like behavior exhibited by Pakistani officials. On the other hand, Iraq’s puppets at least had it in them to refuse giving savage American soldiers free reign in their country unlike Ghani and Abdullah.

This is comparable to debating about which prostitute has more virtue

[Insight]

[QUOTE]

People need to understand why the US or rather Trump is even willing to talk to Taliban. The US is no dire situation. The Afghan war was all forgotten, until the talk of peace came by. How many time have Afghanistan been mentioned in a significant way in the past years. Even in election campaign it was ignored. This speaks volume of it significance for the American people. It is no major economic burden, in fact, it cost the US far more to give away free aid money, that they're distributing to foreign nations, than the actual Afghan war. So in terms of economics, it has no significant. In terms of human value, there is barely any American casualties, so there will be no major public opinion regarding the war.

Regarding the ANA casualties, it simply doesn't effect the US. The cost of war neither increase or decrease, when an Afghan soldier dies. They have a specific amount of money they use for the Afghan army, as harsh as it sound, it is completely irrelevant for the US whether the Afghan soldiers dies or not. At least economically speaking.
So practically speaking, there is absolutely no reason for the US to leave. This is also where I have to praise the Afghan government. What people don't understand, that the peace process is orchestrated by the Afghan government.

Yet, the Afghan government made it relevant. The thing is, because it was out of the limelight, the public would have never accepted Taliban becoming relevant in Afghanistan. Neither the US citizen nor its allies, even many Afghans were against it.

The talks were never orchestrated by the Kabul puppet regime. Ghani always prefaced his public appeals to the Taliban with matter of fact statements that US would never leave. In fact there is video of him doing this at multiple press conferences. He was asking for unconditional surrender. You know how ridiculous he sounded? I mean do I need to explain how ridiculous this is?

What changed? 2016 election and Trumpism is what changed. Trump has given Ghani no choice but to be a spectator

This is where the Afghan governments brilliant thinking and sacrifice comes to play. One example is, when Ashraf ghani mentioned the sacrifice of 45000 Afghan soldiers who died in the war. It was a political suicide for him, but very important detail in the grand scale. It was to showcase the world, the sacrifice the Afghan people are undergoing every day.

The Kabul Regime is so brilliant that they tricked the US into what? More war? The US does not stay or leave because of their concern or lack thereof for a puppet government.

Do you guys even know how irrelevant the Afghan war were. It was becoming so irrelevant, that the government of the European nations considered Afghanistan as safe and denied Afghan refugees. At one point, some European nations said, if anyone from Afghanistan came to the country, they will be deported back straight to Afghanistan...
This is were the Ghanis sacrifice comes to play. He didn't have to mention the death of Afghan soldiers, he could have underplayed it. He could have said, that Taliban is only killing civilians and the military is pushing back against these terrorist. It would have assured his position.
- He would have appeared strong to the Afghan public and foreign government
- He would have assured long term support for his government
- He would have assured his long time position
Yet, you may ask why he didn't do that. It simple, it was a self sacrifice for the peace. If he did that, he may have dehumanized the Taliban and kept the Afghan war from the limelight, assuring that the public wouldn't want to negotiate with the Taliban and just keeping the status quo.

Ghani sought out peace because Trump has left him without a choice. Lets not kid ourselves here

Ghani is a Puppet. Karzai still is a puppet.

Now even though he getting criticized for the loss of lives, but at least he turned the public opinion around and reminded them, that people actually dying in the war, even though they may not be your relatives.

Ashraf Ghani's is an American citizen whose family resides in luxury and safety in the US while he pretends to be a leader. In fact, I wonder if he is even lower than Karzai in that regard.

Now to the main question, why did Trump offer such unconditional retreat, if they literally have no reason to in practical term? Its simple, it is all symbolic. He want to appear as the man who brought peace to Afghanistan, something neither Bush or Obama could. It is a good thing to use for the presidential election. So basically, if the negative symbolism out-weight the positive symbolism, the deal is immediately off. The only reason the deal is even on, is because the Afghan government made it relevant and increased the symbolic value, because they highlighted the sacrificed made every day by Afghans. To put it simple, the Taliban aren't winning the war, they're simply being tolerated. Therefor the bare minimum for the US is that the Taliban talks to the Afghan government and make a peace deal. This is a one time deal, that the US leaving the country is on the table. If the Taliban doesn't throw away their arrogance, they will miss the one and only chance for the US to leave and for the Taliban to claim victory. US can literally continue this war for centuries without it effecting them in the slightest.

The US does not have an open and blank check book. Trump was not the first one to seek out the Taliban for talks. Even Obama and Bush did. It is only Trump though that has said he will pull all US troops out of Afghanistan, the main demand of the Taliban insurgency.

You can choose to believe it or try make belief that somehow this will carry on for another century ? Is that what you want? Maybe the puppet Kabul regime can pull a trick out of their asss.

It pleases me to know how people are loosing sleep over this.

[Insight]

Its pretty well known that Trump has some mental issues, that he is impulsive and cant control himself. Few weeks ago he said he was pulling out of Syria and now he is slowing it down. Afg might face a similar scenario and its a fact that the USA can go on for decades. USA got money to waste. Its the Taliban and the ANA who are wasting human resources

.

Only people who seem to believe that the Taliban have already won its you and this retarded Paki talking bs on PF but once again we should remind you three facts: 1) Taliban control nothing but few mud houses (not even 15% of the country its under their control). 2) Taliban are not the strongest military power in Afghanistan. 3)All you got its historical determinism. Your theory revolves around historical determinism ignoring that the scenario and factors are completely different right now

If 1 and 2 are correct then no need to worry. You can sleep well at night- the Kabul regime and ANA will beat back any Taliban advances.

Those loser Talibs wearing flip flops and controlling a few mud huts! They will be no match for the ANA!

[Firdousi]

Its not mental issues. He usually changes his stance when MIC senators meet with him like Sen. Graham etc. He uses these withdrawal threats against them. When he doesnt get what he wants from them, He will declare "x" without discussing with anyone in a tweet at 3AM so the papers have to rewrite their headlines and "x" is something that hits MIC pocket book.

The MIC senators may give him what he wants and he backs off but its not because what the Taliban did or did not or the Afghan gov did or did not. The decision is from the outcome of his battle with MIC. The moron that started this thread is someone that makes money from it.





Actually there are many State Department officials and CIA analysts that have said the Afghan war is a lost cause and they said this more than a decade ago.

It doesn't matter what the Taliban controls, they could control nothing. The problem is America's will of funding an inept kleptocratic gov forever and you know this because you and the thread starter seem to think America has a blank check and the Taliban know this, they said, "you got the watches, we have the time."

So the debate here really is; does America have a blank check?

Yes, it does.

Do you know how many American soldiers are right now deployed in South Korea? 29000. Since 1953. More than double than in Afghanistan. Do you know how many soldiers your country got deployed all over the world? At least 165K. Few thousand troops and airplanes, some airstrikes here and there and Taliban cant really do much. USA can stay in Afghanistan for decades because it means absolutely nothing for the huge and wealthy American Empire.

For some reason you Americans have embraced Liberal ideas. I have heard that "watches and time" nonsense before, but it was always Lefties saying it. You keep underestimating your own country, dude.

[Iblis_Efreetzai]

America doesn't have a "blank" cheque, but it also isn't dying economically because of its militarism. The military is a HUUUUUUGE or as Trump would say 'YUGE".

I'm not sure where Insight is getting this notion that the U.S. is at the moment is in economic peril; perhaps it is buckling down from being a global super power with China on the way, however, as someone that lives in the States, the recession was more than a decade ago and we've more than recovered from that. Granted, things are riduculously inflated and income isn't entirely commensurate, the market is largely prospering. This was WHILE America was in Afghanistan with a much higher level of financial investment.

So it's highly doubtful that a contigency force in Afghanistan would break America's bank. America has been doing it for 50 years in Turkey, 60 years in South Korea and 70 years in Japan, there isn't anything more expensive being in Afghanistan, if anything it's probably the least expensive of the noted American military presence.

If the Taliban weren't Paki ISI lackeys so much, they'd recognize that this is probably the best situation to be in. Don't get cocky.

[khushal]

Yes, it does.

Do you know how many American soldiers are right now deployed in South Korea? 29000. Since 1953. More than double than in Afghanistan. Do you know how many soldiers your country got deployed all over the world? At least 165K. Few thousand troops and airplanes, some airstrikes here and there and Taliban cant really do much. USA can stay in Afghanistan for decades because it means absolutely nothing for the huge and wealthy American Empire.

For some reason you Americans have embraced Liberal ideas. I have heard that "watches and time" nonsense before, but it was always Lefties saying it. You keep underestimating your own country, dude.

But those are just troops and bases with no American soldiers dying. The US doesn't fund the South Korean Gov. Even with that, most money is spent on mission support that the gov contracts to outside contractors for big money. It is those contractors that would be against any peace with NK since their contracts would no longer be needed. The Actual soldiers get pennies.

But there is YUUUUGE difference between Afghanistan and other places.
It costs $2.1 million per year for each soldier deployed in Afghanistan: Report

[khushal]

America doesn't have a "blank" cheque, but it also isn't dying economically because of its militarism. The military is a HUUUUUUGE or as Trump would say 'YUGE".

I'm not sure where Insight is getting this notion that the U.S. is at the moment is in economic peril; perhaps it is buckling down from being a global super power with China on the way, however, as someone that lives in the States, the recession was more than a decade ago and we've more than recovered from that. Granted, things are riduculously inflated and income isn't entirely commensurate, the market is largely prospering. This was WHILE America was in Afghanistan with a much higher level of financial investment.

So it's highly doubtful that a contigency force in Afghanistan would break America's bank. America has been doing it for 50 years in Turkey, 60 years in South Korea and 70 years in Japan, there isn't anything more expensive being in Afghanistan, if anything it's probably the least expensive of the noted American military presence.

If the Taliban weren't Paki ISI lackeys so much, they'd recognize that this is probably the best situation to be in. Don't get cocky.

Its isnt dying but it is slowing down. US influence in the World is contracting and we all know when Empires contract it is because its economic power in real terms is contracting.

Most of the trillions the US spends is either FED money that is created from thin air(which creates inflation, devaluing the USD decreasing American citizens purchasing power) or borrowed money(which increases US debt), it is not tax revenues that fund these wars.

Plus many argue why spend those resources in no return investments which is how Trump sees it rather than invest those resources that give returns. The fake Islamic Terrorist monster was a nice fairy tale that the MIC used to steal money and they want to go back to the fake Russia monster. These things are losing its sway because more and more people are seeing these lies are making America weaker and we can see this through US power and influence contracting. You can spin it how you want but that is the proof.

[randolph85]

The current trend of American influence declining won’t even be evident in practical terms until we are all dead or old and close to death. Why do you think the likes of Trump don’t care about climate change or old republican ideals like the economic deficit that none of them care about anymore after championing the new tax plan. They will be dead and gone when the consequences catch up, they are atheists and believe the dunya doesn’t matter after they are dead.

Most American troops today sit in their bases and do nothing, it’s no wonder why American casualties are close to nothing and ANA troops are losing men at an incredible rate, same as the Taliban. For several years now, American ground troops have been inconsequential to the war however it’s airpower that makes all the difference and will not change with even a small footprint on the ground.

[Insight]

If anyone takes a glimpse of this thread, a few things become clear.

All those who passionately believe America has a blank checkbook do this:

1) believe US when they say they will stay in Afghanistan BUT wish not believe US when they say they will leave Afghanistan. You can't have it both ways.
.
2)in their obsessive Pakistan view seem to conveniently forget that the entire US war and puppet Kabul regime they call a government rests on continued Pakistani support. Somehow the Kabul regime in some odd logic does not count as either a US proxy or Pakistani proxy.

[khushal]

Trump doesn't care about climate change because China doesnt care and it effects the economy. The US gov is in a useless spending or stealing the treasury spree. The politicians are all corrupt, they taking what they can just like in Afghanistan. All politicians know the end to easy money is ending and they taking what they can. No one can really stop this. Its similar to a run on the bank.