Ethnic groups in Herat Province

[Ironhide]

In modern nations like Russia and China, they have troll farms which infiltrate social media and influence the options of millions of of people in the nations they target. The trolls from Pakistan just straight up get called out and look like fools lol. Not that this is a state promoted effort but if it was, this is how I would imagine it would go. Like getting called out and then getting angry for getting called out.

The truth is that an Afghan Tajik is culturally/politically closer to an Afghan Pashtun than Pashtun Afghan and Pashtun Paki, barring the rural tribes. I don’t know if it’s just me but a proud Paki Pashtun waving a Paki flag makes me want to puke.

HAHA, you should go ahead and puke .. i bet you would do that better than placing a viable argument... Surprisingly, i agree with you.. about Afghan Tajik and Afghan Pashtun... and Pakistani Pashtun .. However, the discussion is not about cultural similarities & the kind of "brotherly love" that exists between the two... it was about the pashtun numbers in Afghanistan and Pakistan... Also i speak for myself.. not for Pakistani Government or anyone else for that matter...

[maneatinglizard]

In modern nations like Russia and China, they have troll farms which infiltrate social media and influence the options of millions of of people in the nations they target. The trolls from Pakistan just straight up get called out and look like fools lol. Not that this is a state promoted effort but if it was, this is how I would imagine it would go. Like getting called out and then getting angry for getting called out.

The truth is that an Afghan Tajik is culturally/politically closer to an Afghan Pashtun than Pashtun Afghan and Pashtun Paki, barring the rural tribes. I don’t know if it’s just me but a proud Paki Pashtun waving a Paki flag makes me want to puke.

I don’t think Ironhide is a paki shill. Those morons are super obvious and Ironhide seems to be more into Pashtun identity than Paki. Asfandyar Bhittani is a perfect example of Pashtun shill for Pakistan.

As for how close Pashtuns and Tajiks are across the borders, I think it depends on where each person is from. Tajiks from Gardez or Kandahar are gonna be closer to Pashtuns than Tajiks from a place like Herat or Mazar. They’d probably even be closer to a lot of Pakistani Pashtuns than northern Tajiks. And the opposite applies to Pashtuns in the northern regions.

Even Pashtuns from different Pashtun areas of Afghanistan can be quite different from each other. I mean, Pashtuns from Jalalabad for example can have trouble understanding the Pashto of my region, and there are cultural differences too.

I think a Pakistani is better equipped to describe the differences between Pashtuns there, but from what I’ve read, people from Quetta and the surrounding area are very similar to Kandaharis, FATA Pashtuns are similar to the Pashtuns across the border in Loya Paktia, while parts of KP are being increasingly Indianized. An urban Peshawari from a upper-class family may be closer to a Punjabi at this point than Pashtuns in FATA, let alone Afghanistan.

[maneatinglizard]

I don’t know if it’s just me but a proud Paki Pashtun waving a Paki flag makes me want to puke.

It’s definitely not just you. I don’t care if a Paki Pashtun wants to stay Paki or has problems with Afghanistan’s policy towards Pakistan or something like that, but if he’s one of those ultranationalists that talks trash about Afghans and acts like a slave around Punjabis then I have less respect for him than the most beghairat Punjabi.

[Firdousi]

LOL.. you just broke the first rule of wisdom.. by calling others ignorant... that says much about your level of intellect... Also this is Pashtun forum not Afghanistani forum.. or Farsiwan Forum for that matter..."Bright Boy"

Dont flatter yourself. I didnt call you ignorant. I called you st*pid. What kind of person talks with such composure about about places you have never been in? You are definitely not very smart.

[Ironhide]

Dont flatter yourself. I didnt call you ignorant. I called you st*pid. What kind of person talks with such composure about about places you have never been in? You are definitely not very smart.

Keep telling yourself whatever you will... see i am not going to come down to your level... however, the information i shared was from western sources... such as UN and USA, something west pleasers love and cherish... As "indeprndent" as you are.. Farsiwan..

[Ironhide]

It’s definitely not just you. I don’t care if a Paki Pashtun wants to stay Paki or has problems with Afghanistan’s policy towards Pakistan or something like that, but if he’s one of those ultranationalists that talks trash about Afghans and acts like a slave around Punjabis then I have less respect for him than the most beghairat Punjabi.

Scroll down Einstein.... i am still very civil. .. these people just cannt digest the facts or when someone call their bluff...

And yes pashtuns in Pakistan is a very diverse group... that doesnt make them anything else but pashtun..

Ps. there are three times more pashtuns in pakistan then in afghanistan... so dont school me on that

CCI defers approval of census results until elections
- Pakistan - DAWN.COM

[Firdousi]

Keep telling yourself whatever you will... see i am not going to come down to your level... however, the information i shared was from western sources... such as UN and USA, something west pleasers love and cherish... As "indeprndent" as you are.. Farsiwan..

Thats exactly my point; that you believe the West is some sort of reliable source. Most of those reports were made by people who have never been to Afghanistan. People like you. Since no real census has ever been conducted all these sources are useless because most of them contradict each other. just look at this thread of yours:

http://www.pashtunforums.com/political-talk-/52880-ethnic-break-badghis.html

You claimed that Pashtuns make up 40% in Badghis while many of those Persianspeakers are Pashtuns too. You chose one source while ignored the other Western source that says this:

The province is inhabited by Tajiks who are thought to make up 62 per cent of the population with Pashtuns making up approximately 28 percent.

You are biased person. Not very smart and extremely disloyal to facts. Anyway, who gives a sh*t if some mud houses in Ghazni are inhabited by Pashtuns or Hazaras? Does it really matter? Im Herati and I couldnt care less if Pashtuns make up 20 or 80%. Since most of them have my faith, speak my language, share my culture, their daughters and boys marry ours.. WHO CARES IF THEIR PARENTS WERE PASHTUNS? I dont care. Most of Afghans dont care. You stick to your dal and chapati and leave Afghanistan for Afghans. We will fix our own mess. Pakis and Iranians are not allowed to take sides here. Stay out.

[Iblis_Efreetzai]

I don't think Ironhide is a Pakistani Government shill but I also think it's important to look at what he posts in context, he writes pieces that are employed and echoed by Pashtun chauvanists whether in Pakistan or Afghanistan, but his "brand" comes from the camp of Pashtun Nationalists in Pakistan that were heavily influenced by Leftist Movements...

So he's definitely not ISI or "Digital Engagement Team" but that doesn't mean he doesn't have an agenda. In fact the "paper trail" of his internet pressence as "Tiger Khan" suggets otherwise.

I don't mind that he posts his stuff....but so much of it is cherry picked and based on "massaged" information masquerading as data.

I respect him as a Pakistani Pashtun as long as he doesn't harbor some nefarious ambitions.

[Ironhide]

I don't think Ironhide is a Pakistani Government shill but I also think it's important to look at what he posts in context, he writes pieces that are employed and echoed by Pashtun chauvanists whether in Pakistan or Afghanistan, but his "brand" comes from the camp of Pashtun Nationalists in Pakistan that were heavily influenced by Leftist Movements...

So he's definitely not ISI or "Digital Engagement Team" but that doesn't mean he doesn't have an agenda. In fact the "paper trail" of his internet pressence as "Tiger Khan" suggets otherwise.

I don't mind that he posts his stuff....but so much of it is cherry picked and based on "massaged" information masquerading as data.

I respect him as a Pakistani Pashtun as long as he doesn't harbor some nefarious ambitions.

See thats my point wallaahi.. i believe most of the people want to feed his/her family at the end of the day (dall chawal or whatever).. u know just make a living .. however, in my case, i share information that i find from the net.. which for some reason is pushed back or ignored if it shows pashtuns in a different light may it be about pakistani pashtuns or afghani pashtuns..
Now everything i post is not and shoudnt be construed as anti-Afghan unity or anything like that..for all i care you guys can all change your language names cultures all for the sake of unity. ... But i say this from the bottom of my heart that i only wish prosperity and happiness for both our countries and for all the people which includes Tajiks, Punjabies, Hazara and Hazarwals etc...however i will keep calling spade a spade.. if pashtun numbers are under-represented i am going to call it and i will talk about the elephant in the room.. we all have seen article news reports etc etc (Pashtun Candidates Protest in Herat | IWPR) on how pashtun rights are infringed upon and if you haven't you need to read more...
Afghani Pashtuns have to realize that the way your are trying to work things out with Tajiks we have the same thing going with punjabies here..Accept that there is not going to be a greater pashtunistan.. however, with the same token i believe that pashto langauge should be compulsory lanaguage and offficial language in pashtun areas of pakistan.

[Ironhide]

It’s definitely not just you. I don’t care if a Paki Pashtun wants to stay Paki or has problems with Afghanistan’s policy towards Pakistan or something like that, but if he’s one of those ultranationalists that talks trash about Afghans and acts like a slave around Punjabis then I have less respect for him than the most beghairat Punjabi.

Funny thing is..i find the pashtuns who change names !!!, language, culture, etc etc to please other as the biggest begharats... you need to know the definition of the word or not use it at all.. However, like i stated earlier that both pakistani and Afghani pashtun have to realize that we are working things out with our counter parts in respective countries..so just like you are not being called a slave of Tajik when their language, culture,political views etc is perceivibly imposed on you neither should you use that against anyone else..

[Ironhide]

Thats exactly my point; that you believe the West is some sort of reliable source. Most of those reports were made by people who have never been to Afghanistan. People like you. Since no real census has ever been conducted all these sources are useless because most of them contradict each other. just look at this thread of yours:

http://www.pashtunforums.com/political-talk-/52880-ethnic-break-badghis.html

You claimed that Pashtuns make up 40% in Badghis while many of those Persianspeakers are Pashtuns too. You chose one source while ignored the other Western source that says this:

The province is inhabited by Tajiks who are thought to make up 62 per cent of the population with Pashtuns making up approximately 28 percent.

You are biased person. Not very smart and extremely disloyal to facts. Anyway, who gives a sh*t if some mud houses in Ghazni are inhabited by Pashtuns or Hazaras? Does it really matter? Im Herati and I couldnt care less if Pashtuns make up 20 or 80%. Since most of them have my faith, speak my language, share my culture, their daughters and boys marry ours.. WHO CARES IF THEIR PARENTS WERE PASHTUNS? I dont care. Most of Afghans dont care. You stick to your dal and chapati and leave Afghanistan for Afghans. We will fix our own mess. Pakis and Iranians are not allowed to take sides here. Stay out.

ok.. but how about UN food program.. these people do visit these place... unless these numbers are not acceptable to your agenda..TIGER KHAN: Afghanistan Settlement Maps

Now understand these are not my numbers... ??!!and they have mentioned villages.. Plus its Pakistanies... not Pakies... Beware that i know level of development education and culture in Afghanistan, Central asia, Iran and india.

[Iblis_Efreetzai]

See thats my point wallaahi.. i believe most of the people want to feed his/her family at the end of the day (dall chawal or whatever).. u know just make a living .. however, in my case, i share information that i find from the net.. which for some reason is pushed back or ignored if it shows pashtuns in a different light may it be about pakistani pashtuns or afghani pashtuns..
Now everything i post is not and shoudnt be construed as anti-Afghan unity or anything like that..for all i care you guys can all change your language names cultures all for the sake of unity. ... But i say this from the bottom of my heart that i only wish prosperity and happiness for both our countries and for all the people which includes Tajiks, Punjabies, Hazara and Hazarwals etc...however i will keep calling spade a spade.. if pashtun numbers are under-represented i am going to call it and i will talk about the elephant in the room.. we all have seen article news reports etc etc (Pashtun Candidates Protest in Herat | IWPR) on how pashtun rights are infringed upon and if you haven't you need to read more...
Afghani Pashtuns have to realize that the way your are trying to work things out with Tajiks we have the same thing going with punjabies here..Accept that there is not going to be a greater pashtunistan.. however, with the same token i believe that pashto langauge should be compulsory lanaguage and offficial language in pashtun areas of pakistan.

My main issue with much of your posts regarding demographics and why they seem heavily "Massaged" and like they're "Texax Sharp Shooting" is because the types of demographic shifts they describe seem heavily unlikely when you factor in birth/death rate, infant mortality, life expectancy, population growth rate and so on. It'd be hard to have moved millions of people from vastly distant regions in the pre-modern era. So while I'm sure there are cases of under-representation; it's an exception not the norm.

Bear in mind, I am not Anti-Pashtun, I'm Pashtun myself. When people here talk about Pashtuns being closer to a Tajik in Afghanistan, they're not saying because we don't share a common heritage. It's talking about the Social Engineering that's been targeted in Peshawar and such places to "Desify' the region, You cannot deny this is very evident in Pashtun media from that region and other things.

I know the response to this will be that "Pashtuns of Afghanistan are Persianized" .....to a certain extent that's right but bear in mind, EVEN Back in Medieval history, Pashtuns had used Persian as regional lingua franca and even Rahman Baba and other Pashtun thinkers often wrote in Persian. Point being that by and large in Afghanistan, Pashtuns and other Afghan nationals have larged retained the cultural niches of historical Afghans, whether it is clothing, food, lifestyle or music where as its shifted considerably ...by deliberate orchestration in Pakistan by the Pakistani establishment, which isn't Pashtun ....and you know this.

If Pashtuns in Pakistan prefer that, that is of course their choice. I don't see any reason Pashtuns from everywhere can't have good relations, but it is of greate concern that Pakistani Military and Political Nexus have a strategic interest in pitting ethnic groups in Afghanistan against each other, So this "demography" stuff often comes off as flavored with that intent. Where as concerns about the Indification of Pashtuns in Pakistan is stuff that Pakistani Pashtuns have voiced and is not incited by Afghan Pashtuns, though we do observe it.

[gina1]

I don't support intermarriage of Pashtuns with others because I think we should preserve our culture and unique looks. Luckily, it is not very common and I think Pashtuns should campaign more to help prevent further intermarriages with Tajiks, Punjabis, etc.

[gina1]

Funny thing is..i find the pashtuns who change names !!!, language, culture, etc etc to please other as the biggest begharats... you need to know the definition of the word or not use it at all.. However, like i stated earlier that both pakistani and Afghani pashtun have to realize that we are working things out with our counter parts in respective countries..so just like you are not being called a slave of Tajik when their language, culture,political views etc is perceivibly imposed on you neither should you use that against anyone else..

Most people who respond to you live in the West and are most likely mixed with non-Pashtun blood hence their opinions. Don't mind it. Afghan Pashtuns side with you.

[Iblis_Efreetzai]

I don't support intermarriage of Pashtuns with others because I think we should preserve our culture and unique looks. Luckily, it is not very common and I think Pashtuns should campaign more to help prevent further intermarriages with Tajiks, Punjabis, etc.

Hi Black Pakistani