Ethnic groups in Herat Province

[Ironhide]

Herat, since its fall to Afghans has been gradually populated by Pashtuns, as it was considered one of the gateways to Iran. The Pashtun migration to Herat province became more pronounced at the time of Amir Abdul Rehman of Afghanistan (1880-1901), which resulted in Pashtunization of Herat Province.

Historically, Herat city is considered to be Tajik/Farsiwan enclave in a Pashtun province. South, West and North East of the province is dominated by Pashtuns, while East, North East and Herat city is dominated by Farsi speaker of variety of ethnic backgrounds. The Pashtun population that envelops the centers from south, west and north east also spills over into Iranian side of the border, while the Pashtun people from the south of the province reach all the way to Herat city before the population changes its character to Farsiwan/Tajik.

In recent years there has been substantial settlement of Hazaras and Aimaks into Herat City, while East of the province is congruous with central Afghanistan's region dominated by Aimaks therefore East and North east of the province, albeit low in population density, is dominated by Aimaks. Most Tajiks in Herat Province live in and around Herat city and the districts surrounding it.

Below is the map showing the largest ethnic group in each district of Herat province.

TIGER KHAN: Ethnic Map of Herat Province

[Ironhide]

Here is UNHCR Data

Adrakshan: Mainly Nurzai Pashtun, with some Tajik and Aimaqs.
Chisti Sharif: Mix of Pashtun, Tajik and Others.
Enjil: Tajik, Pashtun and Syeds.
Ghorian: Pashtun (Durrani30%), Tajik (20%), Aimak, Hazara, other pashtuns.
Guzara: Pashtun and Tajiks.
Herat: Mixed.
Karukh: Tamorai, Jamshidai, Tajik and Zoori. The largest is the Tamorai.
Kushk: Jamshidi make up 50 percent of the population, Taimuri 20 percent and Zari 15 percent. other groups are Firuz Kohi, Taheri, Mish Nast, Balochi, Turkaman and Pashtuns. The Pashtun tribes include the Kakar, Alizai, Ishaqzai and Nurzai.
Kohsan: The different ethnic and tribal groups include Pushtuns, Baluch, Jamshidis, Taheris, Taimori (Khamadis) and Mish Mast. The Baluch tribes consisting of the Rakhshani, Barahoi, Gala Bacha (sub-tribe), Rigi and Dahmarde, make up about 25 percent of the population. Within the Pushtuns, the Alizais form about 18 percent and the remainder consists of Baritchs, Achakzais, Populzais, Nurzais, Ghorizais and Madizais (th sub- tribes of the Nurzai).
Obeh: The kuchis are predominant in the mountainous areas. The majority of the population are Kipchaks (a branch of the Taimori ethnic group), followed by Ghilzais and Sayeds.
Pashtun Zarghun: The main Pushtun tribes are the Achakzais and the Barakzais with some representation of Alkozai, Kharoti, Nurzai, Akhunzada and Eshaqazai. other ethnic groups include: Tajiks, Arab, sayed, Aqa Mir, Mughal, Tamori, Taheri, Balouch, Zoori, Khuja, Tanzai and Taimani.
Zendajan: The principal ethnic group is Tajik, comprising 40 percent of the population. Pushtuns (49%) are represented by the Alizais (20 percent), Khogianis (10 percent), Achakzai and Barakzai (10 percent), and Popalzai (9 percent). 'Ihe Marvi, Khwaja, Makoo, Baluch and Maleki ethnic groups make up the remaining.

According to UNHCR Survey conducted in 1990. http://afghandata.org:8080/jspui/bit...h47_1990_w.pdf
According to United States Institute of Peace (March 2015)

https://www.usip.org/sites/default/files/PW107-Political-and-Economic-Dynamics-of-Herat.pdf

[Shafiqa_H]

Herat`s Sarban Pashtuns had settled there since the times of Saffawids.
They had been allied to the Saffawids and were settled there to avoid conflicts in the Kandahar area that was mainly in Ghilzai/Hotak hands back then.

That changed when the Hotaks lost the conflict to the Afsharids and had to leave for Qalat, and parts of the Sarban Pashtuns (Barakzai etc) were resettled in Kandahar.

They hadnt moved to Herat under Abdurrahman Khan.
Only the Kochis of Herat and the Aimaq, who are nomads, too, had been settled by Abdurrahman Khan.

[Firdousi]

Herat`s Sarban Pashtuns had settled there since the times of Saffawids.
They had been allied to the Saffawids and were settled there to avoid conflicts in the Kandahar area that was mainly in Ghilzai/Hotak hands back then.

That changed when the Hotaks lost the conflict to the Afsharids and had to leave for Qalat, and parts of the Sarban Pashtuns (Barakzai etc) were resettled in Kandahar.

They hadnt moved to Herat under Abdurrahman Khan.
Only the Kochis of Herat and the Aimaq, who are nomads, too, had been settled by Abdurrahman Khan.

Aimaqs are not nomads. They are settled people. And they most likely make up the bulk of rural Herat province along with Pashtuns and "Tajiks" to a lesser degree.

Pashtuns were already in Herat long before Abdul Rahman Khan. But most of them lived in Herat. Ahmad Shah Abdali was Herati after all. But most of modern Herati Pashtuns came to our city in the last century.

I dont consider Herati Pashtuns as real Pashtuns. Nor I consider Herati Tajiks as real Tajiks. Ethnic affiliation does not exist in Western Afghanistan. Heratis are proud of their city, heritage, religion, culture and language not their ethnicity.

Most of Herati Pashtuns are even more proud than Tajiks to be Persianspeakers and Heratis. There is nothing Pashtun in their behavior. Most of Herati Pashtuns are so heavily "Persianized" (or "Heratized") that wont be able to spot any difference between "them" and "us". I know Herati Pashtuns who have Persianized their surnames. One relative of mine is a Popalzai. He removed the "zai" from his surname and now its just "Agaye Popal". I know another one from Ghoryan. His real surname is Jamalzai but his grand father changed it into Rahimi.

IMO and experience, Pashtuns make up around 30% of Herats rural population. Most of urban Heratis are Tajiks but there are some important Pashtun families in there too such as the Safi or the Sheikhs families. Since no real census has ever been conducted their numbers might be even higher. But WHO CARES? Heratis never had any ethnic hatred. We are a good role model for the rest of Afghanistan. We love each other. Stop stirring up ethnic hatred between Tajiks and Pashtun Heratis. We dont need it.

Dera manana.

[Pakhton]

the parsiwanisation of afghanistan is a cancer it must be stoppt like the americanisation herat was never part iran or a parsiwan province at all

[Iblis_Efreetzai]

^^^^^This is the narrative of Pakistani ISI and Servants of Islamabad. And obnixious Indics suffering from gynomastia ahem ahem "Black Pakistani"

[Iblis_Efreetzai]

Aimaqs are not nomads. They are settled people. And they most likely make up the bulk of rural Herat province along with Pashtuns and "Tajiks" to a lesser degree.

Pashtuns were already in Herat long before Abdul Rahman Khan. But most of them lived in Herat. Ahmad Shah Abdali was Herati after all. But most of modern Herati Pashtuns came to our city in the last century.

I dont consider Herati Pashtuns as real Pashtuns. Nor I consider Herati Tajiks as real Tajiks. Ethnic affiliation does not exist in Western Afghanistan. Heratis are proud of their city, heritage, religion, culture and language not their ethnicity.

Most of Herati Pashtuns are even more proud than Tajiks to be Persianspeakers and Heratis. There is nothing Pashtun in their behavior. Most of Herati Pashtuns are so heavily "Persianized" (or "Heratized") that wont be able to spot any difference between "them" and "us". I know Herati Pashtuns who have Persianized their surnames. One relative of mine is a Popalzai. He removed the "zai" from his surname and now its just "Agaye Popal". I know another one from Ghoryan. His real surname is Jamalzai but his grand father changed it into Rahimi.

IMO and experience, Pashtuns make up around 30% of Herats rural population. Most of urban Heratis are Tajiks but there are some important Pashtun families in there too such as the Safi or the Sheikhs families. Since no real census has ever been conducted their numbers might be even higher. But WHO CARES? Heratis never had any ethnic hatred. We are a good role model for the rest of Afghanistan. We love each other. Stop stirring up ethnic hatred between Tajiks and Pashtun Heratis. We dont need it.

Dera manana.

Ironhide is also known as "Tiger Khan" and he's had a presence in Pashtun Nationalist circles for quite awhile. He even has a blog about Pashtun ethnography. While I haven't read enough of his stuff to make a comment to what degree he's stressing the ethno-anthropology of Pashtuns; some of his narratives and resources suggest a strong Pashtun-centered bias ... which make me get the impression that his material is simply covert Pashtun-chauvanism in politically correct disguise.

Also, Tiger Khan is a Pashtun from the Sarhad; where Pashtun Nationalists are often heavily influenced Radical leftist politics and ethnocentrism. A unruly concoction.

[maneatinglizard]

The Pashtun migration to Herat province became more pronounced at the time of Amir Abdul Rehman of Afghanistan (1880-1901), which resulted in Pashtunization of Herat Province.

I think it'd be more accurate to call it the Persianization of Pashtuns in Herat. While the Pashtun population of Herat may be increasing, the Pashtuns there speak Farsi and are probably closer to other Heratis than Pashtuns.

I dont consider Herati Pashtuns as real Pashtuns. Nor I consider Herati Tajiks as real Tajiks. Ethnic affiliation does not exist in Western Afghanistan. Heratis are proud of their city, heritage, religion, culture and language not their ethnicity.

Most of Herati Pashtuns are even more proud than Tajiks to be Persianspeakers and Heratis. There is nothing Pashtun in their behavior. Most of Herati Pashtuns are so heavily "Persianized" (or "Heratized") that wont be able to spot any difference between "them" and "us". I know Herati Pashtuns who have Persianized their surnames. One relative of mine is a Popalzai. He removed the "zai" from his surname and now its just "Agaye Popal". I know another one from Ghoryan. His real surname is Jamalzai but his grand father changed it into Rahimi.

I know a Kabuli Popalzai that has Popal as his last name too. But they're probably like three quarters Tajik, and I suspect partially Indian too. They can't really speak Pashto either. A lot of the city-dwelling wealthy Pashtun families are like that. And the funny thing is a lot of the extremist Pashtun nationalists come from those families too lol.

Persianized last names aren't unique to Herati Pashtuns. My family uses Persian-like last names on both sides instead of "Zazai." I think using the name of your tribe/sub-tribe as a last name didn't become common among Pashtuns until the 90's or 00's, so families that had ties to modernized cities prior to that used Persian-sounding last names. Dropping "zai" isn't common, but nisbahs/nisbats are.

[Ironhide]

^^^^^This is the narrative of Pakistani ISI and Servants of Islamabad. And obnoxious Indics suffering from gynomastia ahem ahem "Black Pakistani"

what narrative!! and why does the color of the skin or structure of face or eyes matter?!!. In my case, i am a pure pashtun (Pashto speaking) (who is often miss taken for a European) from Pakistan..

Now moving on to the issue at hand.. everyone here realizes that many pashtuns in Herat and such areas can not really be characterized as pashtuns.. just like Hindko, Punjabi, Sindhi, Urdu, Kashmiri pashtuns etc of Pakistan. However, they can not be counted as Tajiks either. And these pashtuns can not be used to prop-up Tajik or Aimak numbers.. Furthermore, this supports the point that every farsi speaker in Afghanistan is not Tajik, as he/she can be alot of other things.

Calling spade a spade.. Historically, Tajiks have always been influenced by the outsiders, maybe its a farsi thing, as i have found them (Hazara and Iranians included) to be most malleable, easily influenced and the first one to give up on their values/culture..if you have lived in the west than you know what i mean. Furthermore, maybe i am wrong, but they always seem to side with outsiders a trait that is generally not shared by Turkish people (Uzbeks & Turkmen), but is very pronounced in Persians. With that theme, when americans invaded Afghanistan, they understated Pashtun numbers to give northern alliance legitimacy, the numbers that i share has backing of western and afghan sources and i share the links reports and links as well.

In fact you are showing your clear bias against pashtun, and therefore are bringing forth racist comments and accusing me of propagating ISI's narrative!! lol, which have nothing to do with my point.

[Iblis_Efreetzai]

what narrative!! and why does the color of the skin or structure of face or eyes matter?!!.

I wasn't even referring to you in that post, I was referring to this Troll account that is actually a Desi guy.

In fact you are showing your clear bias against pashtun, and therefore are bringing forth racist comments and accusing me of propagating ISI's narrative!! lol, which have nothing to do with my point.

dude, I am Pashtun; just not an ethnochauvanist one.

[Ironhide]

Also i have no intention (the "want" to be more precise) to create a pure pashtun state and i have no issues with Tajiks in afghanistan or Punjabies in Pakistan.. Neither i have dreams about one pashtunistan.. as i am happy pakistani pashtun.. all i am doing is getting the record straight.

As per all my study, Pashto speaking pashtuns makes around 20-21% (goes upto around 25% if we include non-pashto speakers) of the population of Pakistan, while pashto speaking pashtuns make around 50% of the population of afghanistan (Goes up to 60-65% for non-pashto speaking pashtuns, if included).

so you really have to define ethnochavinism for me.

[Firdousi]

Ironhide is also known as "Tiger Khan" and he's had a presence in Pashtun Nationalist circles for quite awhile. He even has a blog about Pashtun ethnography. While I haven't read enough of his stuff to make a comment to what degree he's stressing the ethno-anthropology of Pashtuns; some of his narratives and resources suggest a strong Pashtun-centered bias ... which make me get the impression that his material is simply covert Pashtun-chauvanism in politically correct disguise.

Also, Tiger Khan is a Pashtun from the Sarhad; where Pashtun Nationalists are often heavily influenced Radical leftist politics and ethnocentrism. A unruly concoction.

He does not seem to be a very bright guy anyway. He has actually admitted to be a Pakistani and has never been to Afghanistan. Why should we take seriously people talking out of their a*s? lol

[Firdousi]

I think it'd be more accurate to call it the Persianization of Pashtuns in Herat. While the Pashtun population of Herat may be increasing, the Pashtuns there speak Farsi and are probably closer to other Heratis than Pashtuns.



I know a Kabuli Popalzai that has Popal as his last name too. But they're probably like three quarters Tajik, and I suspect partially Indian too. They can't really speak Pashto either. A lot of the city-dwelling wealthy Pashtun families are like that. And the funny thing is a lot of the extremist Pashtun nationalists come from those families too lol.

Persianized last names aren't unique to Herati Pashtuns. My family uses Persian-like last names on both sides instead of "Zazai." I think using the name of your tribe/sub-tribe as a last name didn't become common among Pashtuns until the 90's or 00's, so families that had ties to modernized cities prior to that used Persian-sounding last names. Dropping "zai" isn't common, but nisbahs/nisbats are.

Honestly speaking in Afghanistan identities should be based on culture and language rather than ethnicity. I am pretty sure that a Tajik from Badakhshan is ethnically closer to a Pashtun from Paktia or a Nuristani guy than to a Tajik from Badghis. The only things that makes him different is language and culture to a lesser degree. Something similar happens to Kandaharis. I mean i know plenty of Kandahari Pashtuns marrying Heratis or Kabulis but i dont know many Kandaharis marrying people from Zabul. Their urban identity beats their ethnic affiliation.

Anyway, since most of Tajiks and Pashtuns hail from a mishmash of different Iranic tribes.. whats the point of arguing over it? To me when you start speaking Farsi you are a Tajik. When you become a Pashtunspeaker, you are Pashtun. Tajik and Pashtun identities were created in the last millennia so I am sure that they wont be around within few centuries. Identities evolve. Nothing lasts forever.

BTW Pashtun numbers in Herat are indeed growing. Last time I was in there I noticed so many Pashtuns had moved there from Helmand and Farah and other war-torn provinces. This is actually happening in all urban areas. People are moving from poor and unsafe rural areas into heavily populated urban areas such as Kabul, Kandahar, Herat, Mazar or Jalalabad. You go to Kabul and you see almost more people Parwan or Panjshir than "pure Kabulis". Without us even noticing it Afghanistan is going through a rural flight that will have a huge impact on Afghanistan´s demography, culture and society. Urbanization is one of the core foundations of modern civilization. Afghanistan seems tthat will evolve from a rural nation into an urban one in the coming decades.

[Ironhide]

He does not seem to be a very bright guy anyway. He has actually admitted to be a Pakistani and has never been to Afghanistan. Why should we take seriously people talking out of their a*s? lol

LOL.. you just broke the first rule of wisdom.. by calling others ignorant... that says much about your level of intellect... Also this is Pashtun forum not Afghanistani forum.. or Farsiwan Forum for that matter..."Bright Boy"

[randolph85]

In modern nations like Russia and China, they have troll farms which infiltrate social media and influence the options of millions of of people in the nations they target. The trolls from Pakistan just straight up get called out and look like fools lol. Not that this is a state promoted effort but if it was, this is how I would imagine it would go. Like getting called out and then getting angry for getting called out.

The truth is that an Afghan Tajik is culturally/politically closer to an Afghan Pashtun than Pashtun Afghan and Pashtun Paki, barring the rural tribes. I don’t know if it’s just me but a proud Paki Pashtun waving a Paki flag makes me want to puke.