Obituary for Abdul Raziq

[khushal]

I was a kid back then. I was born in Kabul during the last years of the Soviet invasion. I can not tell what most of analysts predicted but I use to ask my dad and other relatives about those times. My dad, who was anti- commie, was also a realistic person. He always used to say that "the day Mujahadeens start from pouring from mountains into the cities, that day we must start climbing the opposite mountains running away from them". I guess he did know that the infighting would be savage. Still most of Afghans were quite optimistic when commies left.

Rural afghans were optimistic since no more bombers would come but city afghans were scared. Many rural people saw the cities as targets of looting not only material but also women.
The only place this didnt happen was in Herat which is why out of all the warlords, Ismail Khan was better since he kept his city safe and his laws were actually very similar to the Taliban laws.

[Firdousi]

Rural afghans were optimistic since no more bombers would come but city afghans were scared. Many rural people saw the cities as targets of looting not only material but also women.
The only place this didnt happen was in Herat which is why out of all the warlords, Ismail Khan was better since he kept his city safe and his laws were actually very similar to the Taliban laws.

Urban Afghans were optimistic too. At least in Kabul and Herat. Herat had been devastated by commies so getting rid of them was bliss for most of Heratis. Kabul was a bit more complicated. Many pro commies had migrated from all over the country and the anti commie purge had been brutal. My grand dad was a teacher at the Kabul university and he was like one of the few anti regime teachers who was not killed. My mother always tells me about many of their neighbors who were Pashtuns from the provinces along the Pakistani border had moved into Kabul because they were hardcore pro government people. Very few Tajiks shared that kind of sympathy for the communist regime. Even the Kabuli elite hated commies. People like Ahmad Zahir were systematically butchered by the regime. They were considered bourgeoisie.

I guess the rest of the country shared this feeling. Kandahar, Ghazni and Jalalabad are conservative cities so guess they were as happy as Heratis. The only city that was really liberal according to Afghan standards was Mazar. Even more liberal than Kabul. Mazar was run by Dostum in the same way Central Asian Soviet Republics were.

[Firdousi]

Rural afghans were optimistic since no more bombers would come but city afghans were scared. Many rural people saw the cities as targets of looting not only material but also women.
The only place this didnt happen was in Herat which is why out of all the warlords, Ismail Khan was better since he kept his city safe and his laws were actually very similar to the Taliban laws.

Thats definitely not true. Ismael Khan allowed girl education. Up to 75k girls used to attend schools only in Herat city during his rule. There were some similarities with the Taliban laws but in general most of Heratis despised Taliban as a bunch of uneducated savages and the way Herat was run under IK was way different than under the Taliban. Thats why Taliban went so harsh on the city when they conquered it from IK. Most of Taliban governors could not even speak Farsi and the crackdown on Heratis by the Taliban was brutal. They did not even consider Heratis as Muslims and Afghans but Shia Iranians. My relatives always tell me how Taliban used to call them "Shia-e dast baste", Shias praying with their hands crossed like Sunnis.. but Shias after all lol

[Sikandar.]

I guess thomas jefferson never existed cause I have not seen him even though thousands of books have been written about him.



Lets Ignore all sources and only believe shameless people like yourself. haha

When it comes to measuring pain and poverty, listening to someone tell you their stories and looking at their hands, face and eyes is more effective than referring to articles written by people who have never had to earn a living or feed their families in a country where bombs go off on daily basis. Thomas Jefferson’s existence doesn’t help much either.
You are like a doctor, writing a prescription without checking the patient because the chart on your wall has you convinced that they have this or that.

And if you really believe that taliban bring stability to any corner of Afghanistan, I dare you to pack up your suitcase and spend a week of your next holiday or vacation in that province or city. Most of us do it at least once a year with no regrets. Not because we believe Afghanistan is safe or stable or that we don’t know of fun ways or places to spend our holidays at but because we feel connected to our land and our people and we don’t want outselves or our children to turn into insensitive, ignorant ****s like you.

[khushal]

When it comes to measuring pain and poverty, listening to someone tell you their stories and looking at their hands, face and eyes is more effective than referring to articles written by people who have never had to earn a living or feed their families in a country where bombs go off on daily basis. Thomas Jefferson’s existence doesn’t help much either.
You are like a doctor, writing a prescription without checking the patient because the chart on your wall has you convinced that they have this or that.

You mean like this;
لۀ محترم مخلص او مجاهد ورور صالح محمد کندهاري ورور نړۍ مننه، چې دا ویډیو یې رالیږلې .

And if you really believe that taliban bring stability to any corner of Afghanistan, I dare you to pack up your suitcase and spend a week of your next holiday or vacation in that province or city. Most of us do it at least once a year with no regrets. Not because we believe Afghanistan is safe or stable or that we don’t know of fun ways or places to spend our holidays at but because we feel connected to our land and our people and we don’t want outselves or our children to turn into insensitive, ignorant ****s like you.

You just dream of an afghanistan where cuckoldry is accepted by the people.

[khushal]

Thats definitely not true. Ismael Khan allowed girl education. Up to 75k girls used to attend schools only in Herat city during his rule. There were some similarities with the Taliban laws but in general most of Heratis despised Taliban as a bunch of uneducated savages and the way Herat was run under IK was way different than under the Taliban. Thats why Taliban went so harsh on the city when they conquered it from IK. Most of Taliban governors could not even speak Farsi and the crackdown on Heratis by the Taliban was brutal. They did not even consider Heratis as Muslims and Afghans but Shia Iranians. My relatives always tell me how Taliban used to call them "Shia-e dast baste", Shias praying with their hands crossed like Sunnis.. but Shias after all lol

They were pretty similar;
The Politics of State Intervention: Gender Politics in Pakistan, Afghanistan ... - Shireen Burki - Google Books

http://www.pashtunforums.com/political-talk-/52315-ideology-afghan-taliban.html

[Firdousi]

They were the pretty similar;
The Politics of State Intervention: Gender Politics in Pakistan, Afghanistan ... - Shireen Burki - Google Books


http://www.pashtunforums.com/politic...n-taliban.html

lmao DUDE, you have never experienced Ismael Khan´s rule nor Taliban´s. You have never been to Herat.. but for some reason you believe you are an expert or something with your articles who arent even first sources but secondary. You are literally talking about places you have never been to like an expert. You can get more American than this lol

[khushal]

They are all first sources that quote people that were there.
Dismissing sources is ad homenim fallacy. Thats deceit.

The thing is I back up what I say, and I am not talking like an expert, the sources are doing the talking for me. As the book says that Taliban laws were not consistent. I know in Paktia, they left people alone and only handled disputes. Girl schools were operational on the elementary level.

Today We Drop Bombs, Tomorrow We Build Bridges: How Foreign Aid became a ... - Peter Gill - Google Books

[Insight]

When it comes to measuring pain and poverty, listening to someone tell you their stories and looking at their hands, face and eyes is more effective than referring to articles written by people who have never had to earn a living or feed their families in a country where bombs go off on daily basis. Thomas Jefferson’s existence doesn’t help much either.
You are like a doctor, writing a prescription without checking the patient because the chart on your wall has you convinced that they have this or that.

And if you really believe that taliban bring stability to any corner of Afghanistan, I dare you to pack up your suitcase and spend a week of your next holiday or vacation in that province or city. Most of us do it at least once a year with no regrets. Not because we believe Afghanistan is safe or stable or that we don’t know of fun ways or places to spend our holidays at but because we feel connected to our land and our people and we don’t want outselves or our children to turn into insensitive, ignorant ****s like you.

No disrespect but you are asking us to throw the ethical standard of having sources. NO THANKS.

Without sources which are gathered from actual events and words from people who verifiably suffered, ANYONE can make up **** like Azmal does without being held accountable.

I can say that I saw a man fly to the sky. Should everyone believe me?

[khushal]

Yes we had this discussion already, and similarly, you're using the PR talking points that apologists have typically used.

This narrative of a "rag tag militia of of various unaffiliated groups" as if to make it appear as if they're "self motivated and home grown warriors of liberty" is just a branding tactic and Falls apart by the Taliban's own self perception and identity. the Organizational struture of the Taliban and even the Taliban's own willingness to work with and encourage rogue behavior.

While there maybe some self motivated actors that are purely idependent; and there maybe rogues that get marked as Taliban. It's pretty much moot, because the Taliban enlists their own rogues and and works with crminal agents. Most of the "ragtag" types can't make sophistcated explosives without training, that training comes through the Taliban pipeline and that pipeline leads to back to Pakistani Covert military personnell.

Furthermore the Taliban themselves praise and extol their activities and take credit for them, unless this is just Talibam exploiting "Stolen Valor", for things they didn't do? Whatever the individual motivations are; they're taken credit by and given sanction by the Taliban organization itself. That's all there needs to be for culpability. Before I was "fooled" by the alleged "CIA Andar Uprising" in 2012, I was "fooled" by the Taliban storyline and tales of "Mullah Omar refusing bread because his poor, poor countrymen couldn't afford it". And other Noble fictionalizations. The Apologists have been fooled for the last 17-25 years with the entire Taliban storyline.

The incompetence of America doesn't absolve the maliciousness of the Taliban; what I said to Azmal applies similiarly here, If the Taliban really cared about Afghanistan's welfare they'd be working to improve Afghanistan's work force and skills set and other dire means to help the population acquire food and basic medical care. They'd have used that to create an effective mass revolt rather than "ragtag" actors that Apologists clumsily use in a failed attempt at "plausible deniability".

And it's not simply a "reaction", because the Taliban were doing this stuff before the U.S. landed in Afghanistan; it's power lust ....plain and simple. They were ousted from power, They want power, they won't stop until they're in power or at least until Pakistan is in power. Then it's "oh we're just ONE UMMAH ". It's really just a power game.

And in that sense, I'm no longer under that trance the apologists are still under.

Your just spilling the same thing over and over again. I already explained it, if the occupier cant to its job, then the occupier needs to quit or get fired. That's it.
Let someone else like the afghan people do their job like they did after the Soviet withdrawal. This is all natural and you know this. The society itself will find a way and they will find it in the most efficient way possible. Any outside variable like foreign intervention that creates peace with an iron hand with an Afghan thug is temporary anyways. It all falls apart when the foreign help stops which it will.

We can all say "come on afghan gov, you can do it, come on guys lets all pray for the afghan gov. If you dont pray for the afghan gov, you are an infidel, terrorist, paki or whatever." You do that, I'll stick with the evidence and make my conclusion based on that.

And no one is saying that the Taliban are angels. As Trump says " there are some good guys in there and there are some bad dudes in there, on both sides, on both sides." Just like there are some good Americans who body slam pedophiles violating their own superiors orders and there are some bad ones who go on a shooting rampage killing children. But we are talking about policy, what works and doesn't based on evidence, not who is good or bad.

[Iblis_Efreetzai]

Your just spilling the same thing over and over again. I already explained it, if the occupier cant to its job, then the occupier needs to quit or get fired. That's it.
Let someone else like the afghan people do their job like they did after the Soviet withdrawal. This is all natural and you know this. The society itself will find a way and they will find it in the most efficient way possible. Any outside variable like foreign intervention that creates peace with an iron hand with an Afghan thug is temporary anyways. It all falls apart when the foreign help stops which it will.

We can all say "come on afghan gov, you can do it, come on guys lets all pray for the afghan gov. If you dont pray for the afghan gov, you are an infidel, terrorist, paki or whatever." You do that, I'll stick with the evidence and make my conclusion based on that.

And no one is saying that the Taliban are angels. As Trump says " there are some good guys in there and there are some bad dudes in there, on both sides, on both sides." Just like there are some good Americans who body slam pedophiles violating their own superiors orders and there are some bad ones who go on a shooting rampage killing children. But we are talking about policy, what works and doesn't based on evidence, not who is good or bad.

So are you ...you seem to not comprehend, none of what apologists argue ....has any impact on the culpability of the Taliban in their actions and the "reaction" narrative is easily falsified. This is all a red herring more or less. If you want to go at it from a "policy" angle it still makes the Taliban reprehensible, because the Taliban too are motivated by their own set of policies. Hence they are power driven not liberation drivemn. That is evidence based.

"there are some good guys and some bad dudes" ...and "The Bad dudes" get support, sanction, training, consolation and EVEN praise from the Taliban; which makes the Taliban culpable. The Taliban almost never decry such actions. Of the thousands of bombings they've done, they've apologized a handful of times. But even if they apologized numerous times, it stiill woildn't help their case because it shows they behave irresponsibly. These attempts by apologists are just excuses for the Taliban to avoid responsibilty for their own actions. But the problem with that is; if you don't take responsibility for what you do, then that means you don't have any legitimate claim to having a say in the outcomes of your surroundings, especially with regards to policy. So clearly a nonsensical position.

[khushal]

Youre just spilling the same stuff because you got nothing.

[Iblis_Efreetzai]

And so are you, how many times are you going to push the "it's just a reaction" and diverting focus from the responsibility of the Taliban's own choices angle when it's been falsified.

[khushal]

What do you expect from bad policy. When something isnt working, and you keep expecting a different result is insanity.

[Iblis_Efreetzai]

I expect that the bad policy angle is a red herring and has no bearing on the culpability of the Taliban since they were doing this stuff before the U.S. was involved.


there I go repeating myself again ....There's pretty much no away around the Taliban being responsible for their crimes and why they have no legitimacy.