Saudi crown prince: Israelis have right to their own land

[maneatinglizard]

MBS will fail The days of secular nationalist Arab regimes has long passed, but it will be interesting to see how he keeps the wahabies in check, won't be surprised if we see some fatwas calling him a murtad and Wahabi mad dogs starting trouble in Saudi.

He already started arresting the Wahabis that may have spoken up.

There's a chance some of them may plan some kind of insurrection, but considering how many Salafis worship the Saudi family, it'll be tough to prevent plans from being leaked to him.

[Akbar]

He already started arresting the Wahabis that may have spoken up.

There's a chance some of them may plan some kind of insurrection, but considering how many Salafis worship the Saudi family, it'll be tough to prevent plans from being leaked to him.

Neo salafis have sided with arab nationalist against Muslim brotherhood so has Saudi. This clown Prince is a very vicious and cunning person and his plans for Arabia are nothing short than deislamisation.

[Iblis_Efreetzai]

Take it easy tiger
I agree with a lot of your points scrapping the irrelevant rants.
Remember sometimes reality is stranger than fiction.

A credible source told me that the al saud family were Indian and Hindus and were fostered and installed by the British empire.

LOL They don't look like Indian Hindus, I mean they look like typical Gulf Arabs to me.

But who knows? It is true that many Hijazi families have Indian Muslim origins, stemming from South Asian Muslims who migrated to Hijaz during the Ottoman period. This was prior to the establishment of the Saudi Kingdom

[کیش]

The Palestinians will be with Isa Bin Maryam (peace be upon him) at Mount Tur while the world gets slaughtered by Yajuj and Majuj. What a time.

To reiterate how close we are to this time. The Prophet (peace and blessing be to him) said a sign of the hour is when bare footed Bedouins compete in constructions of magnificent buildings. This has been ongoing for 20 years now.

So back to the topic, the Palestinians have a higher ranking than most people alive or dead.

[Akbar]

LOL They don't look like Indian Hindus, I mean they look like typical Gulf Arabs to me.

But who knows? It is true that many Hijazi families have Indian Muslim origins, stemming from South Asian Muslims who migrated to Hijaz during the Ottoman period. This was prior to the establishment of the Saudi Kingdom

That's new to me.

[Iblis_Efreetzai]

On a completely side note; I have to agree with certain things that [MENTION=19809]Akbar[/MENTION] and [MENTION=19424]Firdousi[/MENTION] said in the past ...we should distance ourselves from using this term "Wahhabi"...I have used it in the past too ...but I recognize it's a term that's been co-opted by the status quo to create artificial rifts and divisions.

People that are labeled as "Wahhabis" have a wide spectrum of attitudes and opinions. Strong Literalism is more aptly termed Kharijiyah because that's what the Kharijiyah were and they were extremely militant and hostile. These are different than Muslims who live a very rigid and narrow interprettaion of Islam, but for the most part let others live in peace. They should not be placed into the same groups just because they have "certain points of overlap"

In the same way I don't lump Shi'i with those that endorse the Iranian Regime doctrine of "Walayat Faqih".

We need to change the sort of discourse we use or we're playing into outside manipulators and their agenda.

That is all.

[Iblis_Efreetzai]

That's new to me.

https://academiccommons.columbia.edu/download/fedora_content/download/ac:207782/content/Low_columbia_0054D_12663.pdf

There are also some rather colorful reports from spies and informants (jurnalciler) recounting their efforts to shadow anti-Ottoman propagandists.3
In one such report, an Ottoman informant warns of the rapidly multiplying Indian population in Mecca. As the author warns, the Indian population numbered in the tens of thousands and had multiplied several times over in recent years. As the anonymous author hypothesizes, the British had undertaken a project to encourage Indians to take up residence in the Hijaz with the intention of using them to lay the groundwork for their ultimate goal of transferring the Caliphate to Mecca.

Also found an interesting quote abou it here.

The British Empire and the Hajj: 1865-1956 - John Slight - Google Books

[Kakar-Wardak]

On a completely side note; I have to agree with certain things that [MENTION=19809]Akbar[/MENTION] and [MENTION=19424]Firdousi[/MENTION] said in the past ...we should distance ourselves from using this term "Wahhabi"...I have used it in the past too ...but I recognize it's a term that's been co-opted by the status quo to create artificial rifts and divisions.

People that are labeled as "Wahhabis" have a wide spectrum of attitudes and opinions. Strong Literalism is more aptly termed Kharijiyah because that's what the Kharijiyah were and they were extremely militant and hostile. These are different than Muslims who live a very rigid and narrow interprettaion of Islam, but for the most part let others live in peace. They should not be placed into the same groups just because they have "certain points of overlap"

In the same way I don't lump Shi'i with those that endorse the Iranian Regime doctrine of "Walayat Faqih".

We need to change the sort of discourse we use or we're playing into outside manipulators and their agenda.

That is all.

We shoudant ignore wahabies they have caused great problems all over the Muslim world in the last 100 years.

No salafi regardless of the type of salafi he is will criticise their sects founder Abdul Wahaab, read his works the guy claimed that most of the muslims of his time were drowned in shirk and polytheism because they believed in things like tabaruk, Tawassul and Isthighata, modern salafis still believe all the above is shirk and polytheism can you imagine some low iq idiot reading Salafi propaganda and coming home and thinking his family are mushrikhs and kafir because they have a taweez or believe in intercession of the Prophet Muhammad peace be upon him or are mushrikhs because they follow some Sufi group.

[Iblis_Efreetzai]

We shoudant ignore wahabies they have caused great problems all over the Muslim world in the last 100 years.

No salafi regardless of the type of salafi he is will criticise their sects founder Abdul Wahaab, read his works the guy claimed that most of the muslims of his time were drowned in shirk and polytheism because they believed in things like tabaruk, Tawassul and Isthighata, modern salafis still believe all the above is shirk and polytheism can you imagine some low iq idiot reading Salafi propaganda and coming home and thinking his family are mushrikhs and kafir because they have a taweez or believe in intercession of the Prophet Muhammad peace be upon him or are mushrikhs because they follow some Sufi group.

I'm not saying we should take their views as legitimate, but we also should be wary about those who hijack our discourse for their agenda ...and you'll see that people are using words like Wahhabi to polarize people. As long as people keep their rigid views of things to themselves, I don't really care if they think taweez is shirk or something.

[Firdousi]

MBS will fail The days of secular nationalist Arab regimes has long passed, but it will be interesting to see how he keeps the wahabies in check, won't be surprised if we see some fatwas calling him a murtad and Wahabi mad dogs starting trouble in Saudi.

Thats definitely not true. Nationalism is back stronger than ever and Islamism has been badly defeated in this first Islamic ideological war. Let me sum it up to you:

In Tunisia, the main Islamist party, Enhada, close to MB, has dropped its Islamist agenda and embraced democracy. Tunisia is now even considering legalizing homosexual sex. In Libya, nationalist and islamist forces are fighting each other mercilessly. In Egypt, Morsi (MB) was democratically elected yet failed and was toppled by a nationalist coup. In mali, Jihadis were defeated by France and local forces although now they seem back. In Syria rebels are a failure and Baathist nationalist forces won the conflict. In Iraq, ISIS was defeated although now is coming back in the form of insurgency (that country is back to square one: 2008. Endless civil war). KSA since MBS took over, has gone nationalist. No need to say that the Khomeinist regime is a failure and most of Iranians have gone nationalist/atheist. In Afghanistan 99% of Afghans despise the Taliban and the Mujahedeen and ethnic nationalism is stronger than ever. Even in Pakistan people have given up on this panislamic idea and fully embraced retarded Paki nationalism.

Islamism failed. Nationalism has filled the vacuum once again. But as I have said before, its just temporary victory. Nationalism thrives on hatred, division and irrationality. It cant really provide a prolonged alternative. Sooner or later, nationalist forces will fail once again for the following reasons: Egypt is a failed state that relies on GCC countries for basic economic aid. Syria is a failed state and its regime is safe for now thanks to Russia and 70k Shia Jihadis deployed by Iran. Iraq is an Iranian satellite state. No need to say how despised and hated KSA is. Without regional support and since that country is located in the periphery of ME its doomed to fail. Same logic applies for Afghanistan: our government is a failure and it will collapse without foreign support. Paki project is a joke. It collapsed once (Bangladesh war), it will collapse once again soon.

Its pretty obvious that the nation-state paradigm created in a Western Westaphalian context and imposed on the rest of the world through Colonialism is dying. Islamic countries are fake, artificial, dysfunctional and got their days numbered. Even Western nation-states are declining. I just wonder what comes next.

[khushal]

Thats definitely not true. Nationalism is back stronger than ever and Islamism has been badly defeated in this first Islamic ideological war. Let me sum it up to you:

In Tunisia, the main Islamist party, Enhada, close to MB, has dropped its Islamist agenda and embraced democracy. Tunisia is now even considering legalizing homosexual sex. In Libya, nationalist and islamist forces are fighting each other mercilessly. In Egypt, Morsi (MB) was democratically elected yet failed and was toppled by a nationalist coup. In mali, Jihadis were defeated by France and local forces although now they seem back. In Syria rebels are a failure and Baathist nationalist forces won the conflict. In Iraq, ISIS was defeated although now is coming back in the form of insurgency (that country is back to square one: 2008. Endless civil war). KSA since MBS took over, has gone nationalist. No need to say that the Khomeinist regime is a failure and most of Iranians have gone nationalist/atheist. In Afghanistan 99% of Afghans despise the Taliban and the Mujahedeen and ethnic nationalism is stronger than ever. Even in Pakistan people have given up on this panislamic idea and fully embraced retarded Paki nationalism.

Islamism failed. Nationalism has filled the vacuum once again. But as I have said before, its just temporary victory. Nationalism thrives on hatred, division and irrationality. It cant really provide a prolonged alternative. Sooner or later, nationalist forces will fail once again for the following reasons: Egypt is a failed state that relies on GCC countries for basic economic aid. Syria is a failed state and its regime is safe for now thanks to Russia and 70k Shia Jihadis deployed by Iran. Iraq is an Iranian satellite state. No need to say how despised and hated KSA is. Without regional support and since that country is located in the periphery of ME its doomed to fail. Same logic applies for Afghanistan: our government is a failure and it will collapse without foreign support. Paki project is a joke. It collapsed once (Bangladesh war), it will collapse once again soon.

Its pretty obvious that the nation-state paradigm created in a Western Westaphalian context and imposed on the rest of the world through Colonialism is dying. Islamic countries are fake, artificial, dysfunctional and got their days numbered. Even Western nation-states are declining. I just wonder what comes next.

The whole thing was an experiment to see if client regime with fake democracies can be created in the ME. The Idea was that these weak moderate liberal forces would somehow manipulate to win the elections. MB in Egypt was well organized and really had no challenge from the opposition. The experiment was a disaster since the US has less influence in ME than it did pre Iraq invasion.
Also the experiment made people realize that the US really does not want democracy in the ME and reaffirmed OBL's message that the gun is the only path to revolution/change from these non progressive dictators and monarchs.

The result and consequences from the experiment will be more violence, destruction, suffering. Nationalism is not stronger than ever, it is on the decline and on the defensive. This new Saudi leader's decision to reform his society is basically a "Hail Mary (from American football lingo)" similar to what the Commies did in Afghanistan in the late 70's and 80's.

[Firdousi]

The whole thing was an experiment to see if client regime with fake democracies can be created in the ME. The Idea was that these weak moderate liberal forces would somehow manipulate to win the elections. MB in Egypt was well organized and really had no challenge from the opposition. The experiment was a disaster since the US has less influence in ME than it did pre Iraq invasion.
Also the experiment made people realize that the US really does not want democracy in the ME and reaffirmed OBL's message that the gun is the only path to revolution/change from these non progressive dictators and monarchs.

The result and consequences from the experiment will be more violence, destruction, suffering. Nationalism is not stronger than ever, it is on the decline and on the defensive. This new Saudi leader's decision to reform his society is basically a "Hail Mary (from American football lingo)" similar to what the Commies did in Afghanistan in the late 70's and 80's.

Egypt was not an experiment nor an American conspiracy. It was a popular uprising against a pro-Western government led by Mubarak. There was no need for experiments since USA has always opposed democracy in the Islamic for the simple reason that its a hostile region that will never accept Western hegemony. Democracy and elections would work against American interests for only anti-American governments would be elected. Americans know this and Muslims know this.

In Algeria when a Islamist party won the elections the government was toppled by a Western backed coup. In Palestine, Hamas won elections and West refused to accept. In Iran, Mossadegh won elections and was toppled by the American Ajax Operation. In Turkey, Erbakan and Menderes were toppled by Western backed forces. Coup against Erdogan was just the last attempt to get rid of a ruler hostile to the West. In Afghanistan USA has rigged every single elections since they invaded us in 2001. No need to be a rocket scientist to realize that MB government was doomed since its first day.

USA has lost. After the first Iraqi war the Persian Gulf became an American Lake. USA set the pace and the rules. American stupidity, warmongerism and short-sighted fascism has destroyed the American empire. Since this country is addicted to war, it wont stop interfering in the Islamic world. USA is just stuck in an endless and losing war against Islamist forces everywhere. Debt is skyrocketing and victory is not at sight. The American empire and its Pax Americana are dead.

Nationalism is back dude. I use to travel to Islamic countries on a regular basis and the mood has really changed after the Arab Spring. As I pointed out before its just temporary and nationalism per se its a weak ideology. It will fail once again (it always fails) and Islamist forces will be back sooner or later.

[کیش]

#timeline of the Hour

According to recent reports, Saudi Crown Prince MBS sleeps at his half billion doller yacht in the red sea for his safety. MBS has created enemies everywhere inside the kingdom. The situation in 2018 is that when King Salman dies, there will be an epic dispute of Prophetic portions. The Syrian war should also be winding down. Assad and Iran, most likely, is the expeditionary force from Syria. Read below:

The Prophet (ﷺ) said: Disagreement will occur at the death of a caliph and a man of the people of Medina (city) will come flying forth to Mecca. Some of the people of Mecca will come to him, bring him out against his will and swear allegiance to him between the Corner and the Maqam. An expeditionary force will then be sent against him from Syria but will be swallowed up in the desert between Mecca and Medina. When the people see that, the eminent saints of Syria and the best people of Iraq will come to him and swear allegiance to him between the Corner and the Maqam.

Then there will arise a man of Quraysh whose maternal uncles belong to Kalb and send against them an expeditionary force which will be overcome by them, and that is the expedition of Kalb. Disappointed will be the one who does not receive the booty of Kalb. He will divide the property, and will govern the people by the Sunnah of their Prophet (ﷺ) and establish Islam on Earth. He will remain seven years, then die, and the Muslims will pray over him.

Abu Dawud said: Some transmitted from Hisham "nine years" and some "seven years".

Abu Dawud Kitab al Mahdi

[khushal]

LOL They don't look like Indian Hindus, I mean they look like typical Gulf Arabs to me.

But who knows? It is true that many Hijazi families have Indian Muslim origins, stemming from South Asian Muslims who migrated to Hijaz during the Ottoman period. This was prior to the establishment of the Saudi Kingdom

They are typical Bedouin Arabs. They are tall and big. Hindus are not that tall and big. A munifiq in your house in not always a jew or hindu pretending to be muslim.

[khushal]

#timeline of the Hour

According to recent reports, Saudi Crown Prince MBS sleeps at his half billion doller yacht in the red sea for his safety. MBS has created enemies everywhere inside the kingdom. The situation in 2018 is that when King Salman dies, there will be an epic dispute of Prophetic portions. The Syrian war should also be winding down. Assad and Iran, most likely, is the expeditionary force from Syria. Read below:

That doesnt make sense. Its easier to attack a yacht than a fortified building plus if its half a billion than its more of a war ship not a yacht.