'Abdul Does Not Celebrate Norouz': Anti-Norouz Campaign Prompts Backlash In Afghanist

[salman47]

I clearly said they were doing those practices because Ibrahim AS made the Kaaba. The same goes for pagan Arabs saying that they worship Allah while using the idols as mediums.

So those were the practices of Muslims not the Pagans.
It actually proves my point. The pagans did tawaf which was part of the deen of Islam as practiced by Ibrahim AS .
So nowroz and it's practices also have roots in a religion in this case pagan fire worshippers religion.

As far as I'm concerned shias can practice what they want since they are deviants in the first place. I don't want to discuss them.

Nowruz definitely did not originate from Zartushti, and we dont kniw exactly why the first people celebrate it. But we celebrate it because: SPRING... Now what do you say?

[salman47]

For me is just interesting how they calculate. Calculating Pashtuns age is based on mentionings of the Pashtuns in the one or other form, but interesting how Pashtunwali is mentioned?Is there any local oral tradition to give such claims? Any local epic or so?
I am sure it is ancient and related codes existed or exist everywhere, just maybe in Pashtun society they are still less touched by globalization. We or even more northern caucasians had their own codes like Pashtunwali,
The system of Roma people (although you may dislike that comparison) had some parallels .
Surely things that were completely unacceptable by Islam changed with time, if they existed. It is a hard theme to discuss, as oral culture isn't that much credited as written, so often there are big discussions....

Probably the Romani people passed through Afghanistan and stayed for a while before moving on....
One Pashto Word(which likely a proof of it). Dam/Daman(pl.)[means 'Dancer'/'musician'. The meaning here is extremely negative.], which is also what Romani people call themselves. So I think we took it from them and started calling anyone 'Dam' whoever acted like Romani..
What you guys think?

[Iblis_Efreetzai]

Probably the Romani people passed through Afghanistan and stayed for a while before moving on....
One Pashto Word(which likely a proof of it). Dam/Daman(pl.)[means 'Dancer'/'musician'. The meaning here is extremely negative.], which is also what Romani people call themselves. So I think we took it from them and started calling anyone 'Dam' whoever acted like Romani..
What you guys think?

i think we got the term from our contacts with South Asians.

Another possible origin is from Sanskrit डोम doma [member of a low caste of travelling musicians and dancers]. Sanskrit सिनधु sindhu is a river or stream of water in general. In particular, it denotes the river Indus and the country around it (commonly called Sind

[khushal]

By the way, @khushal, do you know if they still celebrate it in your village?

Yes they do, but there are people that are starting to preach against it calling it an innovation and against Islam.

Which wand is your family from?

[khushal]

Does anyone in Pakistan use the Solar Hijri calendar? On that note, do Paki Pashtuns celebrate the Lunar Hijri new year (or Gregorian one if that's the standard calendar)?

Peshawar and Quetta celebrate the Gregorian new year with fireworks, concerts and other hoopla.

[Firdousi]

A quick point.
The people or the clerics who are spearheading the anti nowroz campaign are not Pashtuns but Tajiks.

Yeah its true plenty of Tajiks dont celebrate Nowruz. Many of them even consider it kufr. I find it legit. But thats not the point here. Its about how you refuse to answer my question: is Pashtunwali also a Pagan code just because it predates Islam or only Nowruz is Pagan?

You are a Pashtun fascist. You are no different than those animals who claim that Farsi, Tajiki and Dari are different languages while at the same time claim that Afghan Pashto and Pakistani Pashto are the same. You hate Nowruz because it brings Afghan Persianspeaker and Iranian Persianspeakers together. That scares the sh*t out of you. Good.

People like you who use Islam in order to advance your nationalist agenda are the biggest prostitutes walking the earth.

[Firdousi]

It's not, but I think that's not the traditional practice of Tajiks either. [MENTION=19424]Firdousi[/MENTION] mentioned that the practice was imported from Iran recently among non-Pashtuns too.

As I mentioned before, in my village (which is very close to the border and Parachinar, so not exactly close to any center of Tajik culture) they jumped over fires as part of the festivities of the two Eids, not Nowruz.



The Afghan government didn't have a strong influence in many of the Pashtun areas. It's possible but the fact that there existed a lot of variation in the activities suggests to me that it has probably been around a long time. If it was a modern addition from a central source, then there'd be more uniformity in the celebration.

Does anyone in Pakistan use the Solar Hijri calendar? On that note, do Paki Pashtuns celebrate the Lunar Hijri new year (or Gregorian one if that's the standard calendar)?

Back in Afghanistan in the 90th I cant really remember people celebrating Chaharshembe-Suri. Not even in Herat which is so close to Iran (just 100km away). Nor do my parents. Nor my grand-parents. So I guess this celebration has been imported from Iran. Who knows may be two centuries ago before the creation of Afghanistan it was widespread but right now its more like a foreign thing. And unlike Nowruz Chaharshembe-Suri its a Zoroastrian practice.

[Akbar]

Yeah its true plenty of Tajiks dont celebrate Nowruz. Many of them even consider it kufr. I find it legit. But thats not the point here. Its about how you refuse to answer my question: is Pashtunwali also a Pagan code just because it predates Islam or only Nowruz is Pagan?

You are a Pashtun fascist. You are no different than those animals who claim that Farsi, Tajiki and Dari are different languages while at the same time claim that Afghan Pashto and Pakistani Pashto are the same. You hate Nowruz because it brings Afghan Persianspeaker and Iranian Persianspeakers together. That scares the sh*t out of you. Good.

People like you who use Islam in order to advance your nationalist agenda are the biggest prostitutes walking the earth.

You are trying to divert attention from the original discussion.
Off course I'm not going to respond to your attempts of doing it.

Thats an ad hominem and highly offensive. How can you say what I am and not. I think you are reflecting and are frustrated. It's not my issue that Tajik clerics want this majoosi religious celebration banned.

Make a separate thread about Pashtunwali and your issues with it and I'm sure we will give you the the much needed attention.

[Akbar]

Nowruz definitely did not originate from Zartushti, and we dont kniw exactly why the first people celebrate it. But we celebrate it because: SPRING... Now what do you say?

I guess we will discuss it new year again as it is almost over now.

[Firdousi]

You are trying to divert attention from the original discussion.
Off course I'm not going to respond to your attempts of doing it.

Thats an ad hominem and highly offensive. How can you say what I am and not. I think you are reflecting and are frustrated. It's not my issue that Tajik clerics want this majoosi religious celebration banned.

Make a separate thread about Pashtunwali and your issues with it and I'm sure we will give you the the much needed attention.

So suddenly you care about diverting attention lol

Ok I will make a new thread. Lets see if you are a man of honor or just a fascist using our faith to advance your ethnofascist agenda.

[Akbar]

So suddenly you care about diverting attention lol

Ok I will make a new thread. Lets see if you are a man of honor or just a fascist using our faith to advance your ethnofascist agenda.

I did care that's why I ignored your pleas, red herrings and ad hominem.

[UnknownUser]

All the claims against nawroz seem purely based on emotions and opinions. no one has actually presented any substantial argument what part of nowroz is anti-islamic.

I have a thesis that while even though noaroz likely was celebrated during the time of Zoroaster, there is high chance it even predates Zoroaster. This is my view, but most cultures are older than the religions that are associated with them. My thesis is that Nowroz probably began in the early times when Iranian tribes migrated into Central Asia and built aggricultural societies. nowroz probably began as the celebration of good times ahead in terms of harvesting. With Zoroastrianism it may or may not have taken a religious tone, but still the core of it was non-religios, which is why has still been celebrated in Islamic parts of Iranian plateau and central asia. if it was in conflict with Islam, people would've discarded it when Islam first reached the region long time ago.

[Traveller]

By the way, do Pashtuns in Pakistan celebrate Nowruz/Naway Kal?
[MENTION=18842]Samandri[/MENTION] [MENTION=19846]Traveller[/MENTION]

Only the Shias. I think Sunnis living in areas with a lot of Shias or the ones from tribes with a significant Shia population also celebrate it. It's unheard of among other Pakistani Pashtuns and most of us consider it a Farsiwan celebration.