Pashtuns as Iranian people?

[Iblis_Efreetzai]

A
Shahnameh:

"Their commander was Qaran Kawgaan
And generals Sheroi and Awgaan."
(Shah-Nama 1-110)

"The mighty soldiers had gathered around the castle,
Armed with golden cudgels and golden helmets,
Their commander was Qaran Kawgaan,
Led by the valiant general, Awgaan".
(Shah-Nama 1-116)

This could be a case of false cognates/phonemes; also it's refering to specific individuals and not a people group That's not an equivalent claim to mention of Afghans in the proper sense. Furthermore "Awghan" would be "Afghan" in Persian which Firdowsi wrote in, since "Awghan" is the satirized "Pashtu" pronounciation of Afghan, the Persian pronounciation.

So more than likely, "Awghan" has no relationship with Afghan. Also, Afghans are historically nomasdic peoples, that only began settling within the last millennia as evidenced to the colonization of the Peshawar and Lower Pashtunkhwa. More likely not to have the same organized structure of military ranks like "general" that Armies of settled Peoples like other Iranian peoples of this era would have.

[MENTION=1547]khushal[/MENTION]
[MENTION=17856]Sarbani[/MENTION]

[Iblis_Efreetzai]

non of the above proved that there is a common mother language or a connection of pashtuns or pashto to iran air being a subgroup of iranian people.

really you don't see it?

Land/earth: Zameen - zmaka
horse: Asb - aas (hisaan) pashto use word asp as well and is derived from farsi or the other way around
crazy: Diwana - liwanay (majnoon) totally different words
hand: Dast - laas (yad) again totally different
moon: Maah - myasht/spogmai (qamar) it's mahtab in dari and it is very different
water: Aab - ooba (maa') how is this even close?
War: Jang - jagrra/jang (harb)
cow: Gaw - ghaa (baqara) in pashto it's the a and again not evsn close
father: Padar - plaar (ab) not even close
mother: Modar - moor (umm) different

zameen ...zmaka ...same root consonants "z" and "m"

diwana-Liwanai ..."iwan" part is in there, Pashto words have many words which have this structure of replacing having "L" in place of "d". You can see this between "daman" and "laman"

"dast" and "las" is anothe example

Myasht-Mah might be a stretch, since we're not Lunar Calendar people, but Lunar cycles were well known so, this could be the case.

"aab" ..."ooba" ...i mean the only difference here is vowel inflection of "aa" and "oo"


Pedar and "plar" same thing as what I mentioned between "L" and "D" being replaced

Modar, Moor, ...just missing the "d" and having "or" instead. That's more of a dialect difference.

Gaw and Ghaa are not close? ....so "g" and "gh" are quite close.

[Iblis_Efreetzai]

Afghans are clearly called Awghan in Tarikh I guzida

Show us

[Akbar]

really you don't see it?



zameen ...zmaka ...same root consonants "z" and "m"

diwana-Liwanai ..."iwan" part is in there, Pashto words have many words which have this structure of replacing having "L" in place of "d". You can see this between "daman" and "laman"

"dast" and "las" is anothe example

Myasht-Mah might be a stretch, since we're not Lunar Calendar people, but Lunar cycles were well known so, this could be the case.

"aab" ..."ooba" ...i mean the only difference here is vowel inflection of "aa" and "oo"


Pedar and "plar" same thing as what I mentioned between "L" and "D" being replaced

Modar, Moor, ...just missing the "d" and having "or" instead. That's more of a dialect difference.

Gaw and Ghaa are not close? ....so "g" and "gh" are quite close.

Pashto and Dari are not like english.
They are written differently and one letter can change the sound.

Let's take as example
The aab and ooba.
اوبه
آب
When written in English you might think it's only vowels.
In here the آ and ا change the whole sound.

[Iblis_Efreetzai]

https://ia902605.us.archive.org/8/it...zdao00hamd.pdf

That's a 556 page book, show us which page.

[Iblis_Efreetzai]

https://ia902605.us.archive.org/8/it...zdao00hamd.pdf

why would Qazwini refer to us as a tribe of Mongols?

i) i. e. the Awghans or Afghans, whom the author regards as a tribe of Mongols. See supra^ p. i6i, ad

[Iblis_Efreetzai]

Pashto and Dari are not like english.
They are written differently and one letter can change the sound.

Let's take as example
The aab and ooba.
اوبه
آب
When written in English you might think it's only vowels.
In here the آ and ا change the whole sound.

I know they sound different, but that's what inflections do, they make words sound different, but the similarities of their sounds, especially the roots. It's clearly there that Pashto and Farsi have a common origin.

[Akbar]

I know they sound different, but that's what inflections do, they make words sound different, but the similarities of their sounds, especially the roots. It's clearly there that Pashto and Farsi have a common origin.

That's an argument without any solid evidence to support it.
Just because they have one letter in common doesn't mean they might have come from same. If that was the case than Water has و and ا they are only misplaced واتر، اوبه.

[Akbar]

Don't know about you, but I can see how close Parsi and Pashto are. In the world, after Native Pamiri languages and Ormuri, Persian is the next closest to Pashto.
That's the reason it is an 'Iranian Language' in international publication.
There are tons of proofs for there closeness. You should read some scholarly publications on 'Pashto'(of course view it objectively at the same time, but do look up the language only ones.)

P.S. Avoid the Iranicaonline or whatever it is called, and every other 'verified-by' Indian/Pakistani sources.

I remember one comparison between 'Indian-Sanskrit Languages' and Pashto(they were trying to prove that Pashto is Indo-Aryan language, aka Indic)[I think by an Indian or Indic obsessed Western dude], where they used a bunch of 'Urdu' words to prove it. Also it was quite a laughing 'scholarly' piece, because I, or even any Pashtun, had never used(in some cases not even heard) those words in my life.

Can you please recommend any "scholarly publications" and which one you have read?
Some of the Urdu words are quite similar because of the influence of Pashto.
Urdu is a recent phenomenon and it is mixture of languages mainly Hindi.

[salman47]

Can you please recommend any "scholarly publications" and which one you have read?
Some of the Urdu words are quite similar because of the influence of Pashto.
Urdu is a recent phenomenon and it is mixture of languages mainly Hindi.

For starters: Wikipedia
Search all the articles related to 'Iranian Languages'. E.g. 'Iranian Languages', 'Eastern Iranian Languages', 'Pashto', 'Ormuri', 'Yaghnobi' etc...

[Iblis_Efreetzai]

Who knows

During the time of the Kurt dynasty Afghanistan was called Awghanistan so lets not pretend like Awghan can refer to anyone other than Afghans.

So since we're not a Mongol people, it seems it does refer to someone else than the Afghans, PLUS, this was written in the 13th-14th century ...not an ancient reference to Afghans by a long shot.

[Iblis_Efreetzai]

Also Tarikhh-Guzida is definitely not talking about hotak times lol.

You're right about that, I saw Kirman and thought it was referring to that, but then I checked the dates. Regardless, it's not talking about Pashtuns since we're not Mongols.

It seems the translator is making false cognate between Awghan and Afghan which Persians do not say, Afghan is the Persian word for us.

False cognate - Wikipedia

[Akbar]

For starters: Wikipedia
Search all the articles related to 'Iranian Languages'. E.g. 'Iranian Languages', 'Eastern Iranian Languages', 'Pashto', 'Ormuri', 'Yaghnobi' etc...

That's it
Wikipedia?
You do know anyone can write and edit Wikipedia articles?
Pashto is not Iranian language. That term is a fraud .
Ormuri and Pashaie are probably distict languages on their own as well.

[Iblis_Efreetzai]

That's an argument without any solid evidence to support it.
Just because they have one letter in common doesn't mean they might have come from same. If that was the case than Water has و and ا they are only misplaced واتر، اوبه.

the evidence is already there, they have root letters in common, not just one letter. The only difference is vowel inflection.

[Akbar]

[MENTION=19809]Akbar[/MENTION]
this is a nice in depth book
Grammar of the Pasto, Or Language of the Afghans, Compared with the Jranian ... - Ernst Trumpp - Google Books

Ok
I promise to take a look at this book.
But I must admit I can't take it very seriously as it is written by a guy named Ernest Trumpp.