Pashtuns as Iranian people?

[Akbar]

When they say, we are an "Iranian people", they aren't referring us being a subgroup of people with Iranian citizenship. There is a difference between Iranian (citizenship) and Iranian (Iranic). When they say we are an Iranian subgroup, they mean we are an Iranic subgroup similar to how Uzbeks are a Turkic subgroup or how Serbs are a Slavic subgroup.

It's totally false tag they have put on us.
We aren't a subgroup of iranic people.
That's just the way orientalist have been portraying it as if we were a part of Persian people.
It is all because Persians have been propagating themselves as superior and civilized through their writings in ancient times and the western writers just copied that.

Pashtuns are not organic people it was deemed as such because people think all these places and people belong to Persia.

[Sarbani]

It's totally false tag they have put on us.
We aren't a subgroup of iranic people.
That's just the way orientalist have been portraying it as if we were a part of Persian people.
It is all because Persians have been propagating themselves as superior and civilized through their writings in ancient times and the western writers just copied that.

Pashtuns are not organic people it was deemed as such because people think all these places and people belong to Persia.

Persian and Iranic are not the same thing. Persians are an Iranic subgroup just like Pashtuns. Just because we are related to Persians doesn't mean we are the same thing as them. You are treating Persian and Iranic as synonyms when that is a huge mistake. Persians are just the largest Iranic subgroup, but Pashtuns are also an Iranic subgroup. Other Iranic subgroups include Kurds, Baloches, Ossets, etc. Iranic is just the name given to us in English. It really just means West Aryan (as opposed to North Indians who are East Aryans).

When people say that Sindhis are an Indo-Aryan or Indic subgroup, that doesn't mean that Sindhis are the same thing as Punjabis. It just means they belong to the same outer group.

[salman47]

Please show me an example of similarity between the two languages. The only thing I common is that we both use some Arabic words.

Now I am having my doubts, do you even speak Pashto? Persian?

[khushal]

They use the term “Iranian” instead of “Aryan” in English. The first is to differentiate between us and the Indo-Aryans, as they split off and became quite different from us a long time before the “Iranians” (i.e. Aryans) were still a relatively uniform group. The second is to avoid any possible association to the “Aryan race” imagined by Nazis and white supremacists.

Basically, they mean Aryan when they call us Iranian. It’s pretty annoying that it’s mostly happened because of cultural appropriation of stupid white supremacists, but that’s become the acccepted term in English-speaking academic circles.

I'm just adding to this cause some of the people aren't getting it. Iran is named after Aryan but academics use Iranic/Iranian instead of Aryan. When they use the term Iranian, they are not referring to the country but a group of many peoples(Aryan people).

The confusion started when Reza Shah Pahlavi changed his country's name in 1935 to Iran from Persia.

[khushal]

Tajiks are an Iranian people, linguistically and culturally and genetically, western afghanistan and eastern Iran is the heartland of Iranian culture and history.

Balkh was one of the most important centers of persian culture and history. Many respected academics hail from there.

[Akbar]

Now I am having my doubts, do you even speak Pashto? Persian?

I can speak,read and write both languages.
Pashto language is totally different than Farsi.
If you find similar words in both languages it's either Persian or Arabic borrowed words.

[Admin Khan]

When they say, we are an "Iranian people", they aren't referring us being a subgroup of people with Iranian citizenship. There is a difference between Iranian (citizenship) and Iranian (Iranic). When they say we are an Iranian subgroup, they mean we are an Iranic subgroup similar to how Uzbeks are a Turkic subgroup or how Serbs are a Slavic subgroup.

That’s precisely what I am saying. I can totally see how Uzbek are Turkic, or how Turkmen are Turkic; I am not saying they claim we have Iranian citizenship - that would be absurd.

What I fail to see is how we are Iranic; I’d like to see how people who adhere to such an ideology arrived at such a conclusion.

To simplify the question, why are Pashtuns considered a subgroup under some category of “Aryans”. What are the qualifiers?

[Khostai]

That’s precisely what I am saying. I can totally see how Uzbek are Turkic, or how Turkmen are Turkic; I am not saying they claim we have Iranian citizenship - that would be absurd.

What I fail to see is how we are Iranic; I’d like to see how people who adhere to such an ideology arrived at such a conclusion.

To simplify the question, why are Pashtuns considered a subgroup under some category of “Aryans”. What are the qualifiers?

We can not be put toghether with Indics and also not with Turks, so Iranians are the only that is left, guess they were to lazy to make a seperate groups for Pashtuns.

[Sarbani]

That’s precisely what I am saying. I can totally see how Uzbek are Turkic, or how Turkmen are Turkic; I am not saying they claim we have Iranian citizenship - that would be absurd.

What I fail to see is how we are Iranic; I’d like to see how people who adhere to such an ideology arrived at such a conclusion.

To simplify the question, why are Pashtuns considered a subgroup under some category of “Aryans”. What are the qualifiers?

It's mainly a linguistic classification. But Pashtuns are also descended (at least culturally) from Proto-Iranics since we kept their language.

All these classifications (Slavic, Turkic, Germanic, Iranic, Indo-Aryan, Dravidian) are linguistic classifications. These classifications also tend to have cultural undertones which is why you'll see Pashtuns called an Iranic people but you won't see Jamaicans called a Germanic people.

[khushal]

It's purely linguistic. Pashto language evolved from a source that is common to all Aryan(Iranic) languages. Aryanic language group used to be the dominant group in central and western Asia but have been contracting by the expansion of Slavic, Turkic and Arabic influence.

[کیش]

Abu Hurairah narrated that the Messenger of Allah(Peace be upon him) said:

"Black standards will come from Khurasan, nothing shall turn them back until they are planted in Jerusalem."

Jami` at-Tirmidhi Book 31 Hadith 2269

Abu Hurairah reports that the Prophet (sallallaahu alayhi wasallam) said: "Have you heard of a city a portion of which is within the land and a portion of which lies by the sea?" They said, "Yes, O Messenger of Allaah". He said: The Last Hour will not be established until 70,000 from the offspring of Ishaq (Isaac) attack it. When they come to it, they will alight and will not fight with weapons and nor will they throw any spear. They will say, "There is none which has the right to be worshipped (alone) save Allaah, and Allaah is the Greatest", and one half of it would fall ... and then they will say it a second time, "There is none which has the right to be worshipped (alone) save Allaah, and Allaah is the Greatest", and relief will be granted to them, and they will enter it, and t hey will collecting and dividing the booty when a crier will come to them, saying, "The*Dajjaal*has emerged", so they will leave everything and return.

Sahih Muslim

Pashtuns/Khorasanis will make a bulk of the army of the Al-Mahdi. Interesting to note that the RasulAllah peace and blessings to him said they are the descendents of Isaac (peace be upon him) while referring to them in another ahadith.

Who do you people trust more?

[salman47]

I can speak,read and write both languages.
Pashto language is totally different than Farsi.
If you find similar words in both languages it's either Persian or Arabic borrowed words.

So you mean to say Pashto is half Persian? I am still baffled of how you fail to see the common origin!

[Samandri]

Abu Hurairah narrated that the Messenger of Allah(Peace be upon him) said:

"Black standards will come from Khurasan, nothing shall turn them back until they are planted in Jerusalem."

Jami` at-Tirmidhi Book 31 Hadith 2269

Abu Hurairah reports that the Prophet (sallallaahu alayhi wasallam) said: "Have you heard of a city a portion of which is within the land and a portion of which lies by the sea?" They said, "Yes, O Messenger of Allaah". He said: The Last Hour will not be established until 70,000 from the offspring of Ishaq (Isaac) attack it. When they come to it, they will alight and will not fight with weapons and nor will they throw any spear. They will say, "There is none which has the right to be worshipped (alone) save Allaah, and Allaah is the Greatest", and one half of it would fall ... and then they will say it a second time, "There is none which has the right to be worshipped (alone) save Allaah, and Allaah is the Greatest", and relief will be granted to them, and they will enter it, and t hey will collecting and dividing the booty when a crier will come to them, saying, "The*Dajjaal*has emerged", so they will leave everything and return.

Sahih Muslim

Pashtuns/Khorasanis will make a bulk of the army of the Al-Mahdi. Interesting to note that the RasulAllah peace and blessings to him said they are the descendents of Isaac (peace be upon him) while referring to them in another ahadith.

Who do you people trust more?

There is another hadith (graded hasan) according to which Dajjal will emerge from Khurasan.

It was narrated that Abu Bakr Siddiq said: "The Messenger of Allah (ﷺ) told us: 'Dajjal will emerge in a land in the east called Khorasan, and will be followed by people with faces like hammered shields.' Hadith - Book of Tribulations - Sunan Ibn Majah - Sunnah.com - Sayings and Teachings of Prophet Muhammad (صلى الله عليه و سلم)

I am not a scholar of Islam but as a student of history i find the two contradicting hadith very interesting. The hadith about Black standards of Khurasan supporting Imam mehdi was probably forged by some Pro-Abbasid while the one about emergence of Dajjal from Khurasan was probably forged by some Anti-Abbasid. Khurasanis elevated Abbasis to the throne so some thankful and admiring pro-abbasid paid tribute to them by giving them a great role again in end days. While some anti-Abbasid or Anti-Khurasani associated them with the greatest evil of end days.

[Toramana]

It's purely linguistic. Pashto language evolved from a source that is common to all Aryan(Iranic) languages. Aryanic language group used to be the dominant group in central and western Asia but have been contracting by the expansion of Slavic, Turkic and Arabic influence.

Khushal doesn't know about the topic but is speaking with authority. Pathetic.

[Akbar]

Abu Hurairah narrated that the Messenger of Allah(Peace be upon him) said:

"Black standards will come from Khurasan, nothing shall turn them back until they are planted in Jerusalem."

Jami` at-Tirmidhi Book 31 Hadith 2269

Abu Hurairah reports that the Prophet (sallallaahu alayhi wasallam) said: "Have you heard of a city a portion of which is within the land and a portion of which lies by the sea?" They said, "Yes, O Messenger of Allaah". He said: The Last Hour will not be established until 70,000 from the offspring of Ishaq (Isaac) attack it. When they come to it, they will alight and will not fight with weapons and nor will they throw any spear. They will say, "There is none which has the right to be worshipped (alone) save Allaah, and Allaah is the Greatest", and one half of it would fall ... and then they will say it a second time, "There is none which has the right to be worshipped (alone) save Allaah, and Allaah is the Greatest", and relief will be granted to them, and they will enter it, and t hey will collecting and dividing the booty when a crier will come to them, saying, "The*Dajjaal*has emerged", so they will leave everything and return.

Sahih Muslim

Pashtuns/Khorasanis will make a bulk of the army of the Al-Mahdi. Interesting to note that the RasulAllah peace and blessings to him said they are the descendents of Isaac (peace be upon him) while referring to them in another ahadith.

Who do you people trust more?

This is actually the only one that makes sense and backed by historical records.

The Aryan theory is nothing but shots in the dark.