Panjpiri Influence in Afghanistan?

[Shamlawar Khurasani]

Just to be clear, I don't hate Qadiyanis, I don't consider them kufar, but yes their ideology is wonky.

[Iblis_Efreetzai]

I don't pay attention to the takfir of mindless hate mongers.

[ذو الفقار]

2) The Muslim scholars who praised Mirza Qadiani was at a time when he had not declared himself as a Prophet.When he did so , all of them condemned him and called him and his followers Kafir.All the different sects be it Barelvi or Deobandi or Panjpiri of Ahle Hadith, are united in this issue.

This is not true, I cited Maulana Abul Kalam Azad, a very respected Islamic scholar and political leader in India. He did not merely praise Ghulam Ahmad before the latter allegedly claimed Prophethood, but even eulogized him after his death:

You can read his and many other Ulama's quotes here:
The Evidence - Section 20: Tributes to Hazrat Mirza Ghulam Ahmad

4) It is unimaginable for a Muslim to praise or have good thoughts about the imposter Mirza.If you claim to be a Panjpiri , then I can assure you that even the Panjpiri scholars and elders are opposed to your views about Mirza Qadiani.

Whatever the merits of this claim, the fact remains that the Panjpiri elders have been preceded by Ghulam Ahmad Qadiani in the doctrines that distinguish them from the other Muslim sects.

[Iblis_Efreetzai]

This is not true, I cited Maulana Abul Kalam Azad, a very respected Islamic scholar and political leader in India. He did not merely praise Ghulam Ahmad before the latter allegedly claimed Prophethood, but even eulogized him after his death:

You can read his and many other Ulama's quotes here:
The Evidence - Section 20: Tributes to Hazrat Mirza Ghulam Ahmad



Whatever the merits of this claim, the fact remains that the Panjpiri elders have been preceded by Ghulam Ahmad Qadiani in the doctrines that distinguish them from the other Muslim sects.

question is, why don't they show the original print of these quotations and their actual publication dates?

[ذو الفقار]

question is, why don't they show the original print of these quotations and their actual publication dates?

The original publication dates are included. For example, Abul Kalam's quote is from Wakeel newspaper, Amritsar, 30 May, 1908. Here is the original quote in Urdu:

کیریکٹر کے لحاظ سے مرزا صاحب کے دامن پر سیاہی کا چھوٹے سے چھوٹا دھبہ بھی نظر نہیں آتا ۔ وہ ایک پاکباز کا جینا جیا اور اس نے ایک متقی کی زندگی بسر کی ۔ غرضیکہ مرزا صاحب کی ابتدائی زندگی کے پچاس سالوں نے بلحاظ اخلاق و عادات اور کیا بلحاظ خدمات و حمایت دین مسلمانان ہند میں ان کو ممتاز ، برگزیدہ اور قابل رشک مرتبہ پر پہنچا دیا ۔‘ (اخبار وکیل امرتسر ۳۰ مئی ۱۹۰۸ء)

“As to his character, there is not the slightest trace of a blot on it. He lived a virtuous life, the life of a righteous, God-fearing person. To conclude, the first fifty years of his life, in terms of high morals and commendable habits, and in terms of services to the religion, raised him to an enviable position of distinction and honour among the Muslims of India.”

(Wakeel, Amritsar, 30 May 1908)

On my blog I have reproduced the prints from the praise of Ghulam Ahmad by Khwaja Ghulam Farid of Chachran from the book "Isharaat-e-Faridi"

رَبَّ جِبْرِيلَ وَمِيكَائِيلَ وَإِسْرَافِيلَ أَعِذْنِي مِنْ حَرِّ النَّارِ وَعَذَابِ الْقَبْرِ: Sufi/Barelwi Peer Khwaja Ghulam Farid of Chachran Sharif (d.191) Accepting the Truth of Hazrat Mirza Ghulam Ahmad (a.s)

And also praise for him by Deobandi scholar Abdul Qadir Raipuri:

رَبَّ جِبْرِيلَ وَمِيكَائِيلَ وَإِسْرَافِيلَ أَعِذْنِي مِنْ حَرِّ النَّارِ وَعَذَابِ الْقَبْرِ: Deobandi Maulana Abdul Qadir Raipuri's Respect for Hazrat Mirza Ghulam Ahmad (a.s)

[Iblis_Efreetzai]

The original publication dates are included. For example, Abul Kalam's quote is from Wakeel newspaper, Amritsar, 30 May, 1908. Here is the original quote in Urdu:

کیریکٹر کے لحاظ سے مرزا صاحب کے دامن پر سیاہی کا چھوٹے سے چھوٹا دھبہ بھی نظر نہیں آتا ۔ وہ ایک پاکباز کا جینا جیا اور اس نے ایک متقی کی زندگی بسر کی ۔ غرضیکہ مرزا صاحب کی ابتدائی زندگی کے پچاس سالوں نے بلحاظ اخلاق و عادات اور کیا بلحاظ خدمات و حمایت دین مسلمانان ہند میں ان کو ممتاز ، برگزیدہ اور قابل رشک مرتبہ پر پہنچا دیا ۔‘ (اخبار وکیل امرتسر ۳۰ مئی ۱۹۰۸ء)

“As to his character, there is not the slightest trace of a blot on it. He lived a virtuous life, the life of a righteous, God-fearing person. To conclude, the first fifty years of his life, in terms of high morals and commendable habits, and in terms of services to the religion, raised him to an enviable position of distinction and honour among the Muslims of India.”

(Wakeel, Amritsar, 30 May 1908)

On my blog I have reproduced the prints from the praise of Ghulam Ahmad by Khwaja Ghulam Farid of Chachran from the book "Isharaat-e-Faridi"

رَبَّ جِبْرِيلَ وَمِيكَائِيلَ وَإِسْرَافِيلَ أَعِذْنِي مِنْ حَرِّ النَّارِ وَعَذَابِ الْقَبْرِ: Sufi/Barelwi Peer Khwaja Ghulam Farid of Chachran Sharif (d.191) Accepting the Truth of Hazrat Mirza Ghulam Ahmad (a.s)

And also praise for him by Deobandi scholar Abdul Qadir Raipuri:

رَبَّ جِبْرِيلَ وَمِيكَائِيلَ وَإِسْرَافِيلَ أَعِذْنِي مِنْ حَرِّ النَّارِ وَعَذَابِ الْقَبْرِ: Deobandi Maulana Abdul Qadir Raipuri's Respect for Hazrat Mirza Ghulam Ahmad (a.s)

No they're not, they don't show the actual publication, these citations and dates could be completely forged.

show a scan of the actual documents Qadiyani sahib

[ذو الفقار]

No they're not, they don't show the actual publication, these citations and dates could be completely forged.

show a scan of the actual documents Qadiyani sahib

I already linked two articles from my blog where you can see the scans of actual documents relating to the praise of Ghulam Ahmad by Khwaja Ghulam Farid and Maulana Abdul Qadir Raipuri.

These are mostly newspaper references from over a century ago in India. It's not a piece of cake locating the original documents, but I assure you they are genuine and if you made an official request to the Ahmadiyya organization I'm quite positive they would send you something from their archives.
Or alternatively, you could research the archives of those publications yourself and independently verify the references.

But the bottom line is there is no dispute about the authenticity of these references, the Ahmadiyya have been quoting from them since they were originally published and no one accused them of fabricating these quotes

[Iblis_Efreetzai]

I already linked two articles from my blog where you can see the scans of actual documents relating to the praise of Ghulam Ahmad by Khwaja Ghulam Farid and Maulana Abdul Qadir Raipuri.

These are mostly newspaper references from over a century ago in India. It's not a piece of cake locating the original documents, but I assure you they are genuine and if you made an official request to the Ahmadiyya organization I'm quite positive they would send you something from their archives.
Or alternatively, you could research the archives of those publications yourself and independently verify the references.

But the bottom line is there is no dispute about the authenticity of these references, the Ahmadiyya have been quoting from them since they were originally published and no one accused them of fabricating these quotes

you're doing what's called a "bait and switch" you're showing citations for different sources, not the ones you presented in the original links.

this is tell tale sign of deception ....

[ذو الفقار]

you're doing what's called a "bait and switch" you're showing citations for different sources, not the ones you presented in the original links.

this is tell tale sign of deception ....

The quotes of Khwaja Ghulam Farid of Chachran?

“Mirza Ghulam Ahmad Qadiani is also right, and he is right and truthful in his affair. Day and night he is engrossed in the service of God Almighty. He has given his life for the progress of Islam and raising aloft the cause of the Faith. I can see nothing wrong or bad in him at all. If he has claimed to be the Mahdi and Messiah, that too is among the things which are permissible.”
(Isharat-i Faridi, compilation of the talks of Khawaja Ghulam Farid, by his son, p. 179)

The Evidence - Section 20: Tributes to Hazrat Mirza Ghulam Ahmad

Scan page of the above quote on my blog

رَبَّ جِبْرِيلَ وَمِيكَائِيلَ وَإِسْرَافِيلَ أَعِذْنِي مِنْ حَرِّ النَّارِ وَعَذَابِ الْقَبْرِ: Sufi/Barelwi Peer Khwaja Ghulam Farid of Chachran Sharif (d.191) Accepting the Truth of Hazrat Mirza Ghulam Ahmad (a.s)

Where's the "bait and switch"?

[Iblis_Efreetzai]

The quotes of Khwaja Ghulam Farid of Chachran?

“Mirza Ghulam Ahmad Qadiani is also right, and he is right and truthful in his affair. Day and night he is engrossed in the service of God Almighty. He has given his life for the progress of Islam and raising aloft the cause of the Faith. I can see nothing wrong or bad in him at all. If he has claimed to be the Mahdi and Messiah, that too is among the things which are permissible.”
(Isharat-i Faridi, compilation of the talks of Khawaja Ghulam Farid, by his son, p. 179)

The Evidence - Section 20: Tributes to Hazrat Mirza Ghulam Ahmad

Scan page of the above quote on my blog

رَبَّ جِبْرِيلَ وَمِيكَائِيلَ وَإِسْرَافِيلَ أَعِذْنِي مِنْ حَرِّ النَّارِ وَعَذَابِ الْقَبْرِ: Sufi/Barelwi Peer Khwaja Ghulam Farid of Chachran Sharif (d.191) Accepting the Truth of Hazrat Mirza Ghulam Ahmad (a.s)

Where's the "bait and switch"?

The fact that you aren't showing the publications of all these "evidences". That's the bait and switch.

lol one out of the more than dozen or so citations ...lol

[Iblis_Efreetzai]

[MENTION=18842]Samandri[/MENTION]
[MENTION=19985]maneatinglizard[/MENTION]
[MENTION=19653]Charsi Malang[/MENTION]
[MENTION=17995]Kakar-Wardak[/MENTION]

observe the bait and switch tactic here, he uses a link with dozens of alleged citations but no print evidence of them, he only shows one...beware of this, these Qadiyanis have not caught up with contemporary scrutiny and use out-dated tactics.

[toughpashtun]

This is not true, I cited Maulana Abul Kalam Azad, a very respected Islamic scholar and political leader in India. He did not merely praise Ghulam Ahmad before the latter allegedly claimed Prophethood, but even eulogized him after his death:

You can read his and many other Ulama's quotes here:
The Evidence - Section 20: Tributes to Hazrat Mirza Ghulam Ahmad



Whatever the merits of this claim, the fact remains that the Panjpiri elders have been preceded by Ghulam Ahmad Qadiani in the doctrines that distinguish them from the other Muslim sects.

If Qadianis can use the Quran and Hadith to deceive people into believing that they are on the true path , I have no doubt they can come up with false quotes.
You are just giving everyone here reasons to believe that you are a Qadiani.

[ذو الفقار]

Maulana Ashraf Ali Thanwi, the "Hakim-ul-Ummat" of the Deobandi sect, confessed the fact that Mirza Ghulam Ahmad was the only one who effectively refuted the Christians on the point of Jesus Christ being alive and the Prophet Muhammad (Sallallahu alaihi wasallam) having died:

"In that period, Bishop Lefroy gathered an army of missionaries and left England, promising that he would soon convert the whole of India to Christianity. Having collected a great amount of money from the people of England, and assurances from them of continuing assistance in the future, he entered India and raised a big storm. His attack on the teachings of Islam was a failure … But the attack based on the argument that Jesus was alive in heaven in his physical body, while all other prophets were buried in the earth, was in his view proving to be effective upon the general public. At that juncture, Maulvi Ghulam Ahmad Qadiani stood up and addressed Lefroy and his group, saying: ‘The Jesus you talk about is dead and buried like other mortals, and the Jesus whose coming is prophesied is myself, so you must accept me.’ By this means he made things so difficult for Lefroy that he could not shake him off. In this way, he defeated all the Christian missionaries from India to England."

This quote is taken from the preface of the Urdu translation of the Quran by Maulana Thanwi (page 30) published in 1934

Below I reproduce original scan of page 30 of the book, with the actual quote highlighted:

[maneatinglizard]

The quotes of Khwaja Ghulam Farid of Chachran?

“Mirza Ghulam Ahmad Qadiani is also right, and he is right and truthful in his affair. Day and night he is engrossed in the service of God Almighty. He has given his life for the progress of Islam and raising aloft the cause of the Faith. I can see nothing wrong or bad in him at all. If he has claimed to be the Mahdi and Messiah, that too is among the things which are permissible.”
(Isharat-i Faridi, compilation of the talks of Khawaja Ghulam Farid, by his son, p. 179)

The Evidence - Section 20: Tributes to Hazrat Mirza Ghulam Ahmad

Scan page of the above quote on my blog

رَبَّ جِبْرِيلَ وَمِيكَائِيلَ وَإِسْرَافِيلَ أَعِذْنِي مِنْ حَرِّ النَّارِ وَعَذَابِ الْقَبْرِ: Sufi/Barelwi Peer Khwaja Ghulam Farid of Chachran Sharif (d.191) Accepting the Truth of Hazrat Mirza Ghulam Ahmad (a.s)

Where's the "bait and switch"?

Here's what Wikipedia says about this alleged quote:

The above claim of Khawaja Farid's support for Ghulam Ahmed is controversial and have very little substance to it (Here's a book in Urdu that refutes this claim). Isharat-i Faridi was compiled by Maulana Rukkunidin based on his understanding of Khawaja Sahib's sayings. The book was not compiled by Khawaja Sahib's son and thus the entire claim be taken with a pinch of salt. In general, Mirza Ghulam's prophethood claims of being a Messiah and Prophet is rejected outright by Muslim scholars.

400 Bad Request

And to be honest, anyone who says it's okay to pretend to be a reincarnation of Prophet Isa (alayhi salam) should be rejected anyway. I don't know what the point of these quotes even is. We'll reject false prophets no matter how many scholars endorsed them.

[maneatinglizard]

Maulana Ashraf Ali Thanwi, the "Hakim-ul-Ummat" of the Deobandi sect, confessed the fact that Mirza Ghulam Ahmad was the only one who effectively refuted the Christians on the point of Jesus Christ being alive and the Prophet Muhammad (Sallallahu alaihi wasallam) having died:

"In that period, Bishop Lefroy gathered an army of missionaries and left England, promising that he would soon convert the whole of India to Christianity. Having collected a great amount of money from the people of England, and assurances from them of continuing assistance in the future, he entered India and raised a big storm. His attack on the teachings of Islam was a failure … But the attack based on the argument that Jesus was alive in heaven in his physical body, while all other prophets were buried in the earth, was in his view proving to be effective upon the general public. At that juncture, Maulvi Ghulam Ahmad Qadiani stood up and addressed Lefroy and his group, saying: ‘The Jesus you talk about is dead and buried like other mortals, and the Jesus whose coming is prophesied is myself, so you must accept me.’ By this means he made things so difficult for Lefroy that he could not shake him off. In this way, he defeated all the Christian missionaries from India to England."

This quote is taken from the preface of the Urdu translation of the Quran by Maulana Thanwi (page 30) published in 1934

Below I reproduce original scan of page 30 of the book, with the actual quote highlighted:

That's not praise. The idea that that quote comes close to any praise or recognition of your Persian-wannabe fraud is so delusional I wonder how you could even take yourself seriously after having typed it.

Stop being a dishonest moron and just go away already. You've fooled literally no one.

Mirza Ghulam Ahmad tried hard to discount the efforts of the Afghan Mujahideen against his British owners. While our people were dying fighting for their freedom against the Kuffar, he went around rejecting their Jihad and trying to convince others to abandon the struggle too. We'll never accept that Punjabi piece of garbage for that reason alone, so you may as well give it up.