Pashtunistan/Loy Afghanistan vs Loyalism to Pakistan ? Reasons for and against.

[Farahshah]

Arabs have the same level of stupidity as Indians and Persians. They think everything came from Arabs. E.g. One of my Syrian friend believes(not think, but literally believes) that Pashto/Persian/Kurdish came from Arabic. It's difficult arguing with that idiot because he becomes a wall and says 'I am a Arab, I studied in Shariah school'(i.e. I am a low life ajam, just like Gentiles are to Jews) bla bla bla so he never listens.

ITruth be toldI have never heard or seen an Arab crossing the limits and insulting a language like calling it inferior or that it has no value etc just like Persians do. I've heard about a lot of Arabs from the students of different educational institutions in Peshawer and Quetta. Not a single person has spoken ill of them. I knew two Arabs in BMC. They were very respectful towards our people culture and language. They didn't even mock our poor attempts at using Arabic words in our language . You must have heard about the Edwardian Arab student in Peshawer who had within course of two years learned Pashto language and was very much in love with it. There was an interview in which he shared his feeling about Pashto and Pashtuns.
Anyways, just as i've said i've never seen any arab being downright disrespectful towards any language the way Persians are. I haven't seen a single Arab person who loves flooding internet with hateful comments and against any language and misguiding people by spreading lies about it.

[Farahshah]

All that hatred towards Tajiks/Farsiwans is uneccesary. We may not be going away anytime soon, but neither are they. Ubless you plan on genocide or something, we have no choice but to get along if either of us want to succeed.

And I know plenty of Pashtuns that speak Farsi as their first language. Heck, I have Pashtun friends whom only speak Farsi. And I don't really know why it matters what language Tajiks speak in Pakistan. It's neither a Pashtun nor a Persian country, and in my experience they usually speak Urdu if they didn't already know Pashto anyway.

It matters. Because they tell people that Pashto is an inferior and weak language. And yet when they come here forget about all that persian dignity and try mingling eith Pashtuns. And they don't speak Urdu because they don't like mingling with Indic people.
Your few friends don't makeup the entire Afghan population in Afghanistan. Those persian sptead lies like Pashto isn't spoken by a single person in Afghanistan. Read their comments here and all around the internet. I am just saying they don't need to misguide people and lie to them. If they can't respect a language it's ok. Atleast they shouldn't degrade our language by lying about it's status.
And i don't hate them. Hate is a very powerful emotion and i refuse to waste any sort of emotional potency on them.

[Nertj]

Wow this Farahshah Guy exploded. Relax. Lol your language or identity is not going extinct. Nobody is forcing anything on anyone. Speak whatever you want. Lmao. Now relax.

Since you hate Persians/Tajiks so much first change your username. Lol.

Its just a nationality. They accepted that because they are not insecure. Pashtuns Dont call themselves "Afghan" anyway. They say "Awghan". Afghan is the Persian pronounciation.

[Ambatin]

Pakistani Pashtuns are more mixed Indians than the ones in Afghanistan. Avarage Pathans Show 20-40% Indian on DNA samples.

[Farahshah]

Last I checked it's Awghan/Apghan (derived from the Avestan Awagaan) in pashto and in persian Abgan (old persian more specifically) . But both of them adopted the Arabic form Afghan eventually. Do some research work before posting stuff here.
Do you think it would matter if non Afghans think nothing of Afghans? That stupid bayPashto like you consider it just nationality? Would it? Nope. Nobody would listen to a single word from a person who is so feeble minded that can't guess the gendre of a person.
The fact still remains the same that Afghan is ethnicity and persians of Afghanistan adopted it cuz they are too insecure and ashamed of being called just persians (i've seen your tajerk fella here telling people that he doesn't like being called persian lol) be grateful to us that you are enjoying such privilege. And stop hating on Pashto language and spreading lies about it.
And oh, i did see your post before you edited it and i do excuse your persian.
And WHY DID YOU REMOVE THE POST WHERE ASKED IF I WAS INDIAN?? Aaawwww you deprived me of making more fun of your weak mental faculties.

[salman47]

ITruth be toldI have never heard or seen an Arab crossing the limits and insulting a language like calling it inferior or that it has no value etc just like Persians do. I've heard about a lot of Arabs from the students of different educational institutions in Peshawer and Quetta. Not a single person has spoken ill of them. I knew two Arabs in BMC. They were very respectful towards our people culture and language. They didn't even mock our poor attempts at using Arabic words in our language . You must have heard about the Edwardian Arab student in Peshawer who had within course of two years learned Pashto language and was very much in love with it. There was an interview in which he shared his feeling about Pashto and Pashtuns.
Anyways, just as i've said i've never seen any arab being downright disrespectful towards any language the way Persians are. I haven't seen a single Arab person who loves flooding internet with hateful comments and against any language and misguiding people by spreading lies about it.

Actually I am talking about my friend, who is from Damishq, Sham.
We are very good friends though, but that feature of his really annoys me.
Haven't heard of Arabs in Pakistan though.
And yes not all Arabs berate Persian/Pashto but some do because of reasonss(Iran/Shia).
But regarding Islam, Almost All of the Arabs are extremely arrogant(exceptions be made) to the point that I don't discuss any Islamic issues with them. It always ends up in me being non-Arab which means I have no idea about Islam = Jahil = Ajam

[Traveller]

All that hatred towards Tajiks/Farsiwans is uneccesary. We may not be going away anytime soon, but neither are they. Ubless you plan on genocide or something, we have no choice but to get along if either of us want to succeed.

And I know plenty of Pashtuns that speak Farsi as their first language. Heck, I have Pashtun friends whom only speak Farsi. And I don't really know why it matters what language Tajiks speak in Pakistan. It's neither a Pashtun nor a Persian country, and in my experience they usually speak Urdu if they didn't already know Pashto anyway.

Your "Pashtun" friends who only speak Farsi are no better than Indic pathans who speak Urdu/Hindi instead of Pashto.
Most Tajiks in Pakistan live in Pashtun areas so the language they picked up there is Pashto. The only ones who would have learned Urdu would be the ones who went through Pakistani schools.

[Charsi Malang]

Actually I am talking about my friend, who is from Damishq, Sham.
We are very good friends though, but that feature of his really annoys me.
Haven't heard of Arabs in Pakistan though.
And yes not all Arabs berate Persian/Pashto but some do because of reasonss(Iran/Shia).
But regarding Islam, Almost All of the Arabs are extremely arrogant(exceptions be made) to the point that I don't discuss any Islamic issues with them. It always ends up in me being non-Arab which means I have no idea about Islam = Jahil = Ajam

HUA.

I find Arabs only come in two types. Adorable and respectable or complete knobs. A lot of Arabs can be very arrogant. My father (may Allah bless him)and uncle had an altercation with an Egyptian Arab once in our shop in the U.K.- decades before I was born. It was a disagreement about some work he had done for us in the shop. An argument ensued in which he started calling my uncle and dad Indians- they told him he was insulting them but he wouldn't stop- so my uncle smashed his head in with a stick and my dad tried to stab him-lol.

The fellow as my uncle puts it was a complete and utter arsehole and even came back to the shop a few days later to apologize. To this day my uncle who is now also senile hates Arabs.

I've known a lot of Arabs and I find Algerians, Moroccans and Iraqis especially to be nice people.

[maneatinglizard]

Your "Pashtun" friends who only speak Farsi are no better than Indic pathans who speak Urdu/Hindi instead of Pashto.
Most Tajiks in Pakistan live in Pashtun areas so the language they picked up there is Pashto. The only ones who would have learned Urdu would be the ones who went through Pakistani schools.

Seems like you misunderstood me. I'm not saying speaking Farsi instead of Pashto is a good thing, rather it's a reality in Afghanistan, especially among elite Pashtuns that have a connection to any of the royal families. When those families move outside of Afghanistan, their kids keep Farsi and lose Pashto, simply because they are no longer in an environment where Pashto is needed, and Pashto is a much more difficult language than Farsi. When their families speak Farsi instead of Pashto, how can anyone expect them to understand and speak Pashto in the West?

At the same time, there's a world of difference between these people and Indic "pathans." While Pathans have completely lost their Pashtun culture (if they ever had any to begin with, considering most of them are really just Indics that just adopted Pashtun identity without actually having any Pashtun ancestry), the Farsi speaking Pashtuns I know are still very much Pashtuns, in behavior, culture, and demeanor. As the saying goes, a Pashtun is one who lives Pashto, not one who speaks it. While Pashtuns should make an effort to speak their language, I'd much rather have a Pashtun retain his identity and speak Farsi than become one of those atheist Pashtun nationalist losers that pop up every now and then. After all, us Pashtuns in the West don't speak Pashto as our first language, do we?

Additionally, Pashtuns have had a long history with Farsi and Farsi-speaking populations. Whereas Urdu is a new language imposed upon Pakistani Pashtuns by the 70 year old British-created state of Pakistan (though stupid Pashtun "nationalists" certainly played a large part in its imposition), Farsi has been used as a lingua franca in Afghanistan for a very long time. While recent ethnic tensions wont allow most of us to admit it, Farsi is basically the second language of Pashtuns historically. And while I think Pashtuns need to do a better job patronizing our own language, I don't see any benefit in trying to trash other peoples' languages, especially one to which our own history is closely connected, or trying to force them into learning ours.

[ذو الفقار]

Levant people like Palestinians and Lebanese seem to be sort of racist toward us South Asians. They are very culturally different to us. I believe Iraqi Arabs and Yemenis are closer to us culturally. But Levant people look and feel like they are Arabized Europeans. A lot of them are very pale and pasty looking. They are culturally very Westernized.

I also have good experience with Iraqi Shi'ites, they are humble and friendly people. Saudis can be arrogant, but its not always the case, they too can be quite friendly at times.

A lot of our Islam has come from Iraq. For example the Hanafi school originates in Kufa, the Qadiri silsila, with its huge cultural impact on the Indian subcontinent, also originates in Baghdad with Shaykh Abdul Qadir al-Jilani (Rahimahullah). Even though we are Sunnis, our love and attachment to Ahl-al-Bayt is a sort of Iraqi thing.

North Africans are very alien to me. They are Maliki which is radically different than our Hanafi traditions and customs, especially in worship. They are strongly under French cultural influence, secular, Westernized.

British colonialism has been much better than French, because the British didn't do the miscegenation thing. They allowed the colonized to keep much of their culture as long as they paid taxes. The French, however, wanted to make North Africa into a suburb of France, which is why they encouraged French settlement there, and there was too much mixing between the locals and the French. The French model of secularism, or laicite, is the worst thing for Islam.

[maneatinglizard]

HUA.

I find Arabs only come in two types. Adorable and respectable or complete knobs. A lot of Arabs can be very arrogant. My father (may Allah bless him)and uncle had an altercation with an Egyptian Arab once in our shop in the U.K.- decades before I was born. It was a disagreement about some work he had done for us in the shop. An argument ensued in which he started calling my uncle and dad Indians- they told him he was insulting them but he wouldn't stop- so my uncle smashed his head in with a stick and my dad tried to stab him-lol.

The fellow as my uncle puts it was a complete and utter arsehole and even came back to the shop a few days later to apologize. To this day my uncle who is now also senile hates Arabs.

I've known a lot of Arabs and I find Algerians, Moroccans and Iraqis especially to be nice people.

Interesting. I don't think I've met any Arabs that were racist towards Afghans/Pashtuns. I used to work at a masjid that was primarily Arab, and I never had any issues there. Even the non-religious/non-Muslim Arabs have been cool with me.

[Charsi Malang]

Interesting. I don't think I've met any Arabs that were racist towards Afghans/Pashtuns. I used to work at a masjid that was primarily Arab, and I never had any issues there. Even the non-religious/non-Muslim Arabs have been cool with me.

Luckily not all of them are like that. You do get some really really decent folk as well.

[Charsi Malang]

Seems like you misunderstood me. I'm not saying speaking Farsi instead of Pashto is a good thing, rather it's a reality in Afghanistan, especially among elite Pashtuns that have a connection to any of the royal families. When those families move outside of Afghanistan, their kids keep Farsi and lose Pashto, simply because they are no longer in an environment where Pashto is needed, and Pashto is a much more difficult language than Farsi. When their families speak Farsi instead of Pashto, how can anyone expect them to understand and speak Pashto in the West?

At the same time, there's a world of difference between these people and Indic "pathans." While Pathans have completely lost their Pashtun culture (if they ever had any to begin with, considering most of them are really just Indics that just adopted Pashtun identity without actually having any Pashtun ancestry), the Farsi speaking Pashtuns I know are still very much Pashtuns, in behavior, culture, and demeanor. As the saying goes, a Pashtun is one who lives Pashto, not one who speaks it. While Pashtuns should make an effort to speak their language, I'd much rather have a Pashtun retain his identity and speak Farsi than become one of those atheist Pashtun nationalist losers that pop up every now and then. After all, us Pashtuns in the West don't speak Pashto as our first language, do we?

Additionally, Pashtuns have had a long history with Farsi and Farsi-speaking populations. Whereas Urdu is a new language imposed upon Pakistani Pashtuns by the 70 year old British-created state of Pakistan (though stupid Pashtun "nationalists" certainly played a large part in its imposition), Farsi has been used as a lingua franca in Afghanistan for a very long time. While recent ethnic tensions wont allow most of us to admit it, Farsi is basically the second language of Pashtuns historically. And while I think Pashtuns need to do a better job patronizing our own language, I don't see any benefit in trying to trash other peoples' languages, especially one to which our own history is closely connected, or trying to force them into learning ours.

The Indic “Pathans” have falsely created a new identity. “Pathan” is the term non Pashtuns of Indian origin would give to any Pashto speaker. This was adopted by the British.

Nowadays they will argue that Pathan and Pashtun is different. They’ve made some kind of “caste”. So the descendants (supposed) and maybe genuine (who knows) of Pashtuns who settled in India and places like that lose all their Pashto but want to keep the name have slowly evolved and a new race is created. However it becomes a bit complicated when the original ones ( Pashto speakers) still exist in huge numbers and will also still be called “Pathan”.

For people that don’t know- Pathan and Pashtun is the same thing. Pathan is simply the Indic name given to Pashto speakers. However you will find that Indic “Pathans” now claim it as a seperate race-hell even if their ancestors were Hindkyan-they will still call themselves “Pathan”. They however are so far from original Pashtuns nowadays in terms of culture that Pashtuns that know anything about themselves wont acknowledge them as Pashtun or Pathan.

The only similarity I can draw is with Berbers. Berbers don’t call themselves Berbers- that’s what outsiders call them-in their own language they are known as “Amazigh”.

[Charsi Malang]

Pakistani Pashtuns are more mixed Indians than the ones in Afghanistan. Avarage Pathans Show 20-40% Indian on DNA samples.

No one really cares about DNA my friend. It means diddly squat in the grand scheme of things. The truth is if we were all DNA tested then we ourselves don’t know what we’ll find.

[maneatinglizard]

No one really cares about DNA my friend. It means diddly squat in the grand scheme of things. The truth is if we were all DNA tested then we ourselves don’t know what we’ll find.

Not to mention what he's saying is largely garbage.

There is no significant genetic difference between Pashtuns on either side of the border (how could there be? The border has been around for barely 100 years, and has been ignored for basically its entire existence). Multiple genetic studies have shown this. The few outliers with significant Indian ancestry are likely either Indics living in KP who passed themselves off as Pashtuns to the collectors, or simply people with recent, maternal Indian heritage.