Pakistan’s Easter tragedy highlights failed state status

[Iblis_Efreetzai]

There is nothing more to discuss here but your insecurities wrt Pakistan which stems from belonging to a basketcase of a country . Ciao

Your statement is purely projection, I'm not a nationalist so it doesn't apply to me as it would for you.

[PakMan]

You're being killed by your own terrorists after cowering to appease America, and all you have to show for it is being ranked below Nigeria, you didn't just **** yourself your bowels fell out.

hahahahahahahahahahaha you are a funny guy but things arent that simple my man. 9/11 and the war on terror was supposed to bring changes in our region and all major players started manouvering to get the best out of that volatile situation
so lets see what we got
1. we still have our foot on ur neck
2. external force lost will to fight and is exhauted
3. we have consolidated our alliances in our neighbourhood and have new friends
4. economically we are in much better position
5. our cities are more urbanized than ever
6. our universities have better rankings
7. our infrastructure is getting a massive ovehaul
8. insurgensies are almost dead
9. our institutions have matured and gained strength
10. our democracy is taking roots
11. we completed our nuclear triad and also enhanced our nuclear capability many folds
12. our defence production has increased tremendously both qualitatively and quantitavily
13. we are building a wall at western border lol
14. we are more prosperous than we were at the begining of all this

i can go on n on....
point is we have basically cut out the living guts of our enemies and greased the treads of our tanks with em

every war has a price we have paid it and today we are infinitly better than we were 15 years ago we didnt give away even an inch

[Iblis_Efreetzai]

hahahahahahahahahahaha you are a funny guy but things arent that simple my man. 9/11 and the war on terror was supposed to bring changes in our region and all major players started manouvering to get the best out of that volatile situation
so lets see what we got
1. we still have our foot on ur neck
2. external force lost will to fight and is exhauted
3. we have consolidated our alliances in our neighbourhood and have new friends
4. economically we are in much better position
5. our cities are more urbanized than ever
6. our universities have better rankings
7. our infrastructure is getting a massive ovehaul
8. insurgensies are almost dead
9. our institutions have matured and gained strength
10. our democracy is taking roots
11. we completed our nuclear triad and also enhanced our nuclear capability many folds
12. our defence production has increased tremendously both qualitatively and quantitavily
13. we are building a wall at western border lol
14. we are more prosperous than we were at the begining of all this

i can go on n on....
point is we have basically cut out the living guts of our enemies and greased the treads of our tanks with em

every war has a price we have paid it and today we are infinitly better than we were 15 years ago we didnt give away even an inch

You're just repeating the same exact points that "Pakistan" made earlier which have been debunked by both Pakistanis like Porus and others like myself. Only thing that's being greased here is the Pakistani Propaganda machine and it's deluding the desperate Pakistani nationalists who have nowhere else to find refuge but in their own self deceit.

No amount of rationalization changes this; here's a reminder of what really happened.

[Porus]

bcoz only an indian would put india on a high moral position while a pakistani would tend to see that situation in pakistan is slowly but surely moving in the right direction our politics is largly centered around issues of people and society instead of cow meat or isolating others or placing religious fanatics on top positions in gov. every mainstream political party is trying to be extra friendly to minorities in pakistan while in india its ghar wapsi or haramzaday stuff...
finding faults in china or pakistan is not the solution no one is without faults india is perhaps with a much longer list
if u feel india is not sponsoring terrorism to further its goals than god bless you you are amazing.

Ah so every Pakistani is a proud Pakistan. Typical no-true-Scotsman argument.

India has faults, but as a Pakistani I don't feel obliged to lecture them about their country, they can do that themselves, I'm more concerned about Pakistan.

Also, what exactly is this state of the art 'Indian-sponsored terrorism'? Explain this to me, and actually try to quote me this time.

[Porus]

You're just repeating the same exact points that "Pakistan" made earlier which have been debunked by both Pakistanis like Porus and others like myself. Only thing that's being greased here is the Pakistani Propaganda machine and it's deluding the desperate Pakistani nationalists who have nowhere else to find refuge but in their own self deceit.

No amount of rationalization changes this; here's a reminder of what really happened.

Their problem is they can't think straight dude. All they hear is 'anti-Pakistan', 'no power can undo Pakistan' 'Islam Zindabad, Pakistan Payendah baad'. I've already told him that economy is not a measure of a country's quality of life and his only reply is 'ur an indian'. Such intellectual dishonesty makes me have no words for my countrymen.

Also, Musharraf got a taste of his own medicine. That's exactly the manner in which he would speak to the former head of Afghan intelligence. Musharraf is a walking pile of **** with a mouth.

[Iblis_Efreetzai]

Their problem is they can't think straight dude. All they hear is 'anti-Pakistan', 'no power can undo Pakistan' 'Islam Zindabad, Pakistan Payendah baad'. I've already told him that economy is not a measure of a country's quality of life and his only reply is 'ur an indian'. Such intellectual dishonesty makes me have no words for my countrymen.

Also, Musharraf got a taste of his own medicine. That's exactly the manner in which he would speak to the former head of Afghan intelligence. Musharraf is a walking pile of **** with a mouth.

These Pakistani Nationalist drones are caught in an echo chamber. Notice that "PakMan" repeated the same jargon that "Pakistan" made, it's evident that what they do is recycle the same talking points among themselves as a defense mechanism and avoid/ stay in complete denial of anything that may run contrary to that paradigm. They over exaggerate stories that may superficially "appear" to highlight things like "economic" growth.

It's like someone who got a 55 on their first exam, then got a 57 on the 2nd and acting like they aced their exam. It's just cringeworthy.

[PakMan]

You're just repeating the same exact points that "Pakistan" made earlier which have been debunked by both Pakistanis like Porus and others like myself. Only thing that's being greased here is the Pakistani Propaganda machine and it's deluding the desperate Pakistani nationalists who have nowhere else to find refuge but in their own self deceit.

No amount of rationalization changes this; here's a reminder of what really happened.

Well than both of us were stating the reality and you now have an opportunity to prove me wrong.
Now I understand urs and porus's compulsion of being unconditionally pro USA anti Russia / pro India anti Pakistan & china in order to be a good western certified "liberal" and hence feel good about yourself. I see ground realities and if u feel I was wrong at anything in my previous post please correct me.
Countries like ours that are on the bottom half of food chain have to make the best of dirty situations that are created around us. we face dilemmas and success usually is to come out of that situation less damaged.
And if u truly believe that the major powers are saints with high morality care for human rights and all that kinda soft stuff than yes Pakistan is at fault and may god bless you

[PakMan]

Their problem is they can't think straight dude. All they hear is 'anti-Pakistan', 'no power can undo Pakistan' 'Islam Zindabad, Pakistan Payendah baad'. I've already told him that economy is not a measure of a country's quality of life and his only reply is 'ur an indian'. Such intellectual dishonesty makes me have no words for my countrymen.

Also, Musharraf got a taste of his own medicine. That's exactly the manner in which he would speak to the former head of Afghan intelligence. Musharraf is a walking pile of **** with a mouth.

Please help me think straight
Also help me understand how a better economy doesn't necessarily mean better quality of life
Musharraf is a walking pile of **** with a mouth!!! Out of curiosity do you honestly believe you have enuf info ,sound intellectual base, and knowledge to make such a comment
And in the end why u "liberals" have to somehow show India as this beacon of light and this ultimate place and hate ur own countries its mind boggling so let's do this let's talk solutions instead saying " Pakistan is bad Pakistan is bad Pakistan is bad "

[Iblis_Efreetzai]

Well than both of us were stating the reality and you now have an opportunity to prove me wrong.
Now I understand urs and porus's compulsion of being unconditionally pro USA anti Russia / pro India anti Pakistan & china in order to be a good western certified "liberal" and hence feel good about yourself. I see ground realities and if u feel I was wrong at anything in my previous post please correct me.
Countries like ours that are on the bottom half of food chain have to make the best of dirty situations that are created around us. we face dilemmas and success usually is to come out of that situation less damaged.
And if u truly believe that the major powers are saints with high morality care for human rights and all that kinda soft stuff than yes Pakistan is at fault and may god bless you

I already have, did you not read what I wrote? I debunked all these points earlier. Go read through everything on this site. There's no point in repeating myself.

As for countries like yours, you've created the dirty situations. You created your own destiny and now are paying the consequences for it. Afghanistan also has its own cross to bear, but it's gained allies which put Pakistan in a corner. I'm not a nationalist, just a realist, this is the reality Pakistan is seeing, and it's not pretty since last month Taliban started a new wave of attacks in Pakistan. I'm surprised you're unaware of this, but that's the level of denial you seem to be living under. Good Luck.

[Porus]

Please help me think straight
Also help me understand how a better economy doesn't necessarily mean better quality of life

I just gave you two examples: India and China, the former who you said I'm projecting as a 'beacon of light'. Jesus Christ.

Musharraf is a walking pile of **** with a mouth!!! Out of curiosity do you honestly believe you have enuf info ,sound intellectual base, and knowledge to make such a comment

I agree I wasn't being intellectual but I don't like Musharraf. He's a nasty liar like all the other generals. He started a fifth Baloch insurgency, escalated the war in Pakistan by bombing some Taliban whilst maintaining others.. and he started another war with India. I mean, how reckless can these Generals get. They're like the opposite of fine wine, worse as the time goes on.

And in the end why u "liberals" have to somehow show India as this beacon of light and this ultimate place and hate ur own countries its mind boggling so let's do this let's talk solutions instead saying " Pakistan is bad Pakistan is bad Pakistan is bad "

How're you gonna propose a solution if you go around saying 'oh Pakistan's great man, it's just those lousy Indians that are making trouble for us'.

What's your solution? Let me guess: 'UN need put pressure on India', 'Resolution 148' 'Afghanistan namak haram mulk' 'CPEC will bring investment to Pak'

[PakMan]

I already have, did you not read what I wrote? I debunked all these points earlier. Go read through everything on this site. There's no point in repeating myself.

As for countries like yours, you've created the dirty situations. You created your own destiny and now are paying the consequences for it. Afghanistan also has its own cross to bear, but it's gained allies which put Pakistan in a corner. I'm not a nationalist, just a realist, this is the reality Pakistan is seeing, and it's not pretty since last month Taliban started a new wave of attacks in Pakistan. I'm surprised you're unaware of this, but that's the level of denial you seem to be living under. Good Luck.

Bro with all due respect your inability to debunk anything is evident from your this post of urs
Situations are created by the major powers for the major powers and smaller countries just try to navigate through em
Afghanistan is not in a position to have allies u never had u only had sugar daddies Britain paid ur bills than soviets now Americans and EU and for future u guys are looking at India
What allies u have and how are we cornered
Two true giants of Asia are our friends
We and strategic partners with china turkey Saudi Arabia and Gcc minus UAE
We r members of SCO ECO
Our relations with Russia and Iran are improving by the minute

What is Afghanistan who are ur allies name one country in the neighbourhood that will stand with u against us barring India
The whole ECO region is with us either through direct friendships or through mutual friends.
Btw there was a blast in Lahore six died.... go and rejoice

[PakMan]

I just gave you two examples: India and China, the former who you said I'm projecting as a 'beacon of light'. Jesus Christ.
Holding Pakistan responsible for all the ills in situation with India


I agree I wasn't being intellectual but I don't like Musharraf. He's a nasty liar like all the other generals. He started a fifth Baloch insurgency, escalated the war in Pakistan by bombing some Taliban whilst maintaining others.. and he started another war with India. I mean, how reckless can these Generals get. They're like the opposite of fine wine, worse as the time goes on.

Mush was an agent of change a change who's course was artificial since a more organic course would've taken decades hence parties at receiving end retaliated I.e talibs baloch statesquo powers and Punjabi religious groups. They hit back hard but the change was necessary and it's now manifesting in the form of vibrant media decent universities better urban centres better infrastructure bigger middle class etc etc it's not rosy but the national narrative has changed and is more moderate and in some areas progressive.
As a very basic example, now u must have observed girls wearing jeans and stuff in almost all major cities of Pakistan and on media and a degree of openness which was not possible a decade back now it shows that tolerance levels are improving and people now are increasingly open to the fact that everyone has the right to choose what they wanna do. Debates amongst youth is gradually moving towards policies than religious stuff like Sunni Shia affairs. The change is setting in slowly the opposing forces are weakened and are staring at defeat only a matter of time MUSH started this change.

How're you gonna propose a solution if you go around saying 'oh Pakistan's great man, it's just those lousy Indians that are making trouble for us'.

What's your solution? Let me guess: 'UN need put pressure on India', 'Resolution 148' 'Afghanistan namak haram mulk' 'CPEC will bring investment to Pak'

Pewasta reh shajar se umeed e bahar rakh

[Iblis_Efreetzai]

Bro with all due respect your inability to debunk anything is evident from your this post of urs
Situations are created by the major powers for the major powers and smaller countries just try to navigate through em
Afghanistan is not in a position to have allies u never had u only had sugar daddies Britain paid ur bills than soviets now Americans and EU and for future u guys are looking at India
What allies u have and how are we cornered
Two true giants of Asia are our friends
We and strategic partners with china turkey Saudi Arabia and Gcc minus UAE
We r members of SCO ECO
Our relations with Russia and Iran are improving by the minute

What is Afghanistan who are ur allies name one country in the neighbourhood that will stand with u against us barring India
The whole ECO region is with us either through direct friendships or through mutual friends.
Btw there was a blast in Lahore six died.... go and rejoice

Sure keep telling yourself this so you can sleep better at night and avoid any information or ideas that run contrary so you can pretend that no one refuted these points already . And keep recycling the same arguments too, then you can pretend that Pakistan isn't lower than Nigeria. lol Being a coward seems to be what Pakistani establishment wants to indoctrinate in its drones.

[Porus]

Pewasta reh shajar se umeed e bahar rakh

5 armed forces personnel slain in Lahore blast targeting census team - Pakistan - DAWN.COM

Aisay mauqon par umeed-e bahar kya, umeed hai tou bhaarh mein lol

[Porus]

Mush was an agent of change a change who's course was artificial since a more organic course would've taken decades hence parties at receiving end retaliated I.e talibs baloch statesquo powers and Punjabi religious groups. They hit back hard but the change was necessary and it's now manifesting in the form of vibrant media decent universities better urban centres better infrastructure bigger middle class etc etc it's not rosy but the national narrative has changed and is more moderate and in some areas progressive.
As a very basic example, now u must have observed girls wearing jeans and stuff in almost all major cities of Pakistan and on media and a degree of openness which was not possible a decade back now it shows that tolerance levels are improving and people now are increasingly open to the fact that everyone has the right to choose what they wanna do. Debates amongst youth is gradually moving towards policies than religious stuff like Sunni Shia affairs. The change is setting in slowly the opposing forces are weakened and are staring at defeat only a matter of time MUSH started this change.

Forgot you wrote this reply as it was in your quote.

I see your points but I don't think Mush started any liberal change. He brought a lot of business to Karachi which is why he's loved there by a lot of people. But the fundamental change would've been to set Pakistan's priorities straight. Treating the Baloch separatists and anti-Pak Punjabi outfits as one and the same was a mistake. One is a group fighting for the rights of its province, and the other is one that seeks to impose this nasty Islamic ideology on Pakistan.

As far as the other changes are concerned; yes girls wearing what they want is a positive change but that shouldn't come at the expense of national security, it should come alongside.