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Debunking the Migrant Rape Propaganda

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  • Debunking the Migrant Rape Propaganda

    We recently discussed this here.

    People need to play the devil's advocate and ensure that that they are not denying these serious accusations the scrutiny they deserve. Excellent article to that affect:

    How Anti-Immigration Activists Misuse Rape Statistics | Debunking Denialism

    Primer: how does crime statistics work?

    Before we look at the data, here is a short primer on what crime statistics is and different ways to measure crime. This is crucial, since a lot of arguments that commonly occur in mainstream, alternative and social media are based on confusing these different measurements.

    When looking at crime statistics, there are two main sources of information:
    (1) Data from reported crimes: these kinds of datasets provide information about how many crimes of a certain type was reported to the police during a certain time period (such as a calendar year).

    (2) Data from crime victim surveys: these datasets come from surveys sent out to many thousands of people who ask them if they have been the victim of particular crimes during e. g. the past 12 months.

    These may look similar, but they are in fact completely different and answer very different questions.

    Reported crime rates are influenced by the real crime rates, propensity for reporting, trust in the criminal justice system, victim stigma, crime definitions and registration methods. This is a measurement of how many reports of a certain crime that comes in to the police, and thus a measure of the police investigation load.

    Crime victim surveys, on the other hand, attempt to measure how many individuals are the victim of a certain crime during each time period i.e. the actual crime rates. Since these are anonymous, is not done by the police and uses the same crime definitions over the years, it is not influenced by the confounders that reported crime rates are.

    To make it crystal clear: reported crime rates is not the same as actual crime rates and changes in one does not need to be reflected in the other. In fact, they do not even have to correlate. This is because not all crime reports are true and not all crimes get reported to the police.

    If you want information about actual rates, you have to look at crime victim surveys.

    The Swedish Crime Survey show that sex crime incidence is unchanged since 2005

    The Swedish National Council for Crime Prevention (BRÅ) does a crime victim survey every year called The Swedish Crime Survey (“Nationella Trygghetsundersökningen”, abbreviated NTU). They send out surveys to a random and nationally representative sample of 20 000 people in Sweden and about 12 000 people respond (60% response rate). They survey asks people if they have been the victim of certain crimes and other questions related to crime and the criminal justice system. They started at 2005 and summary statistics was recently released for 2014.

    Red is any kind of sex crime, blue is robberies, purple is any kind of physical assault, yellow is fraud, dark-cyan is any form of harassment and green is any kind of illegal threats.

    The major result from this graph is that not a lot happens over time. Since 2005, most categories are roughly the same or slightly decreasing, although there is some random fluctuation from year to year.

    The Swedish Crime Survey attempts to ask additional details about the seriousness of the sex crime in question by asking if the sex crime was accompanied by violence or threats of violence, if the victim was incapacitated by sleeping, alcohol or drugs and if the victim would label it as rape. However, because it cannot be generally expected that victims of sexual crimes fully understand legal definitions of rape, those estimates are more uncertain. The year-to-year variability in rapes is comparable to that of sex crimes generally.

    This also means that the doomsday claims made in alternative media and Internet forums about an avalanche of rapes and sex crimes in the wake of immigration is empirically false. So how could so many political ideologues be so profoundly mistaken on this issue? It turns out that it is because they look solely on incidence of reported rapes and not actual incidence of rape.
    If actual incidence of rape is unchanged, why are rape reports increasing?
    Anti-immigration activists often point out that the observed number of rape reports per year is increasing. This is true, but does not demonstrate that the actual incidence of rape is increasing. As we saw above, it is more or less constant over time (with some year-to-year fluctuations).

    So what is going on? Well, the increase is caused by a couple of different factors:

    —> Changing definitions of rape: over the past 20 years, Sweden has broadened the definition of rape several times: actions that are comparable to rape (e. g. forced vaginal fisting) was classified as rape in 1998, sex with someone in a helpless state (e. g. sleeping or passed out due to alcohol or drugs) was classified as rape in 2005 and sex with someone in a particularly vulnerable situation (e. g. victim paralyzed with fear) was classified as rape in 2013. Since a higher proportion of sex crimes is classified as rape, the incidence of rape reports increases over time.

    —> Increased tendency to report sex crimes: a doubling of the proportion of sex crimes reported to the police occurred between 2005 (10%) to 2011 (20%) according to BRÅ, but this figure fluctuates a bit from year to year. This statistic may be influenced by increase in societal equality, more attention given to sex crimes, and increased trust in the criminal justice system by victims.

    —> Extensive registration efforts: Swedish police has made a stronger conscious effort at registering all potential rapes over time: “a lot of effort is made to register all cases that can be suspected to be rape. As this is done at a very early stage of the process, cases are included that later turn out to be some other sex crime, or even no crime at all.” (according to BRÅ).
    etc.
    Together, these factors increases the incidence of reported rapes. No one is claiming that any individual factor causes all of it and they are not post hoc rationalizations since crime victim survey data shows that the incidence of sex crimes is more or less constant since 2005.

    Why naive comparison of incidence of rape reports between Sweden and Denmark is invalid

    When anti-immigration activists are faced with data from crime victim surveys that show that actual rates of sex crimes is more or less constant in Sweden from 2005, they rarely change their minds. Instead they either appeal to conspiracy theories about the government hiding statistics (even though it is freely available online), and if they are more sophisticated, they will try to make faulty comparisons with rape statistics from other countries, such as Denmark. However, this is not a valid comparison.

    Why not?

    BRÅ emphasize the distinction between actual crimes and reported crimes:
    Article has a number of embedded figures from the actual raw data reports in these nation states and I only pasted part of it

    Here is the conclusion

    Conclusion
    The moral of the story is that you should not get your information about crime statistics from shady blogs who make trivial statistical errors (like confusing reported and actual crimes) or Youtube videos. Instead, go to the original scientific papers or crime victim surveys, read them and understand the methodology, results, limitations and conclusions. There are no shortcuts to substantial knowledge.

    The increasing rates of reported rape in Sweden is primarily caused by a repeated expansion of the rape definition, the fact that police is consciously reported all rapes as individual reports and an observed increase in the tendency to report rape. The differences between rates of reported rape between e. g. Sweden and Denmark is caused by differences in rape definition, differences in registration methods and efforts to rape all sex crimes that might be rape as rape.

    In the end, it is doubly ironic that anti-immigration activists say that they refuse to read mainstream media because of its bias, yet (1) are strongly influenced by the increase in sensationalist coverage of violent crime by mainstream media and (2) are so willing to believe claims made by “alternative” media that are unsupported and often contradicted by actual crime victim survey results.
    The author goes on to answer critics in the commentary section to excellent effect.
    "2 crackheads don't become any better or stronger by sharing the same crack pipe." - Greatest PF quote

  • #2
    A very practical example of rape accusations and variant definitions in Europe can be given by the example of Julian Assange and the rather mysteriously timed accusations against him. In that example there, he had consensual intercourse with two different women at two different time points but the accusation was lodged that post coitus in the first instance, that in the second instance with each of the accusers he did not use barrier contraception and rape was a lodged accusations based on that fact.
    "2 crackheads don't become any better or stronger by sharing the same crack pipe." - Greatest PF quote

    Comment


    • #3
      Originally posted by BarakzaiAbdali View Post
      A very practical example of rape accusations and variant definitions in Europe can be given by the example of Julian Assange and the rather mysteriously timed accusations against him. In that example there, he had consensual intercourse with two different women at two different time points but the accusation was lodged that post coitus in the first instance, that in the second instance with each of the accusers he did not use barrier contraception and rape was a lodged accusations based on that fact.
      Sir you are getting it wrong: propaganda is based on emotions, not reason. Those who hate Muslims will promote the idea of Muslims being rapists not matter what. Even if you back up your claims with facts they won't accept them. Dissonance cognitive its called.
      "For thirty years, I endured much pain and strife,
      I awaken the Ajam by this Persian [language]. "

      -Ferdowsi.

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by Firdousi View Post
        Sir you are getting it wrong: propaganda is based on emotions, not reason. Those who hate Muslims will promote the idea of Muslims being rapists not matter what. Even if you back up your claims with facts they won't accept them. Dissonance cognitive its called.

        You mean to say that people are always perfect at separating or recognizing their reasons as being influenced by their personal feelings?? People like Donald trump or Adolf Hitler's??
        It would be nice if people could separate reason and sentiments but it rarely occurs in practice out there.
        The world out there is as it is, not as it should be.




        "To burn always with this hard gemlike flame, to maintain this ecstasy, is success in life."





        Comment


        • #5
          Yes muslims are very innocent:

          German police: It's an Arab rape game called Taharrush, and now it has come to Europe



          After the NYE mass assaults against women in several European cities, the German Federal Criminal Police Office, BKA, now say that the Arab "rape game" Taharrush has established itself in Europe, reports the German newspaper Die Welt.

          In addition to the events in Cologne, police in Berlin, Hamburg, Bielefeld, Frankfurt, Düsseldorf and Stuttgart have reported of similar incidents. In addition, police in Vienna and Salzburg in Austria and Zurich in Switzerland have raised the alarm about similar mass assaults against women by newly arrived Arab migrants. Also Sweden and Finland experienced the same on New Year's Eve.

          - The attacks range from sexual molestation to rape, says head of BKA, Holger Münch.

          The "rape game" Taharrush is about a large group of Arab men surrounding their victim, usually a Western woman or a woman wearing Western-style clothing, and then the women are subjected to sexual abuse.

          They surround the victim in circles. The men in the inner circle are the ones who physically abuse the woman, the next circle are the spectators, while the mission of the third circle is to distract and divert attention to what's going on.

          If there is enough men, the woman is dragged along by the mob, while the men take turns ripping her clothes off, grope her, and inserting fingers in her various body orifices.

          Taharrush is noted in Egypt as a kind of "lighter sexual abuse or gang rape" and occurred during the Egyptian Revolution (The Arab Spring) of 2011 in the unrest at the Tahrir Square, where Egyptian women and in some cases foreign journalists were surrounded by groups of men, often having been touched with sexual intent and partly undressed, stripped naked and gang raped.

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by Karachi View Post
            Yes muslims are very innocent:

            German police: It's an Arab rape game called Taharrush, and now it has come to Europe



            After the NYE mass assaults against women in several European cities, the German Federal Criminal Police Office, BKA, now say that the Arab "rape game" Taharrush has established itself in Europe, reports the German newspaper Die Welt.

            In addition to the events in Cologne, police in Berlin, Hamburg, Bielefeld, Frankfurt, Düsseldorf and Stuttgart have reported of similar incidents. In addition, police in Vienna and Salzburg in Austria and Zurich in Switzerland have raised the alarm about similar mass assaults against women by newly arrived Arab migrants. Also Sweden and Finland experienced the same on New Year's Eve.

            - The attacks range from sexual molestation to rape, says head of BKA, Holger Münch.

            The "rape game" Taharrush is about a large group of Arab men surrounding their victim, usually a Western woman or a woman wearing Western-style clothing, and then the women are subjected to sexual abuse.

            They surround the victim in circles. The men in the inner circle are the ones who physically abuse the woman, the next circle are the spectators, while the mission of the third circle is to distract and divert attention to what's going on.

            If there is enough men, the woman is dragged along by the mob, while the men take turns ripping her clothes off, grope her, and inserting fingers in her various body orifices.

            Taharrush is noted in Egypt as a kind of "lighter sexual abuse or gang rape" and occurred during the Egyptian Revolution (The Arab Spring) of 2011 in the unrest at the Tahrir Square, where Egyptian women and in some cases foreign journalists were surrounded by groups of men, often having been touched with sexual intent and partly undressed, stripped naked and gang raped.

            You have provided us with so much insight regarding how prejudiced Arabs are towards other Muslims and how mistreated non Arab Muslims are by Arabs since you have lived amongst them. It is pretty obvious that there is a huge gap between what they are like in comparison to other Muslims and how it's very clearly related to their culture and not the religion that we seem to share with them.
            Don't you think it's not fair or accurate to associate their beliefs or behaviour with that of the rest of Muslims around the world??
            If I were to keep an eye for a terrorist in an airport, an Iranian would be the least of my concerns. But they are being held at airports, not because they are genuinely feared but because of where their government stands when it comes to their relationship with the west.
            This ban is not about America's fear of terrorism.




            And why exactly is America allowed to bomb Syrians if they are too much of terrorists to be allowed asylum in America after their houses have been destroyed??



            "To burn always with this hard gemlike flame, to maintain this ecstasy, is success in life."





            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by DaZahroJaam. View Post


              You have provided us with so much insight regarding how prejudiced Arabs are towards other Muslims and how mistreated non Arab Muslims are by Arabs since you have lived amongst them. It is pretty obvious that there is a huge gap between what they are like in comparison to other Muslims and how it's very clearly related to their culture and not the religion that we seem to share with them.
              Don't you think it's not fair or accurate to associate their beliefs or behaviour with that of the rest of Muslims around the world??
              If I were to keep an eye for a terrorist in an airport, an Iranian would be the least of my concerns. But they are being held at airports, not because they are genuinely feared but because of where their government stands when it comes to their relationship with the west.
              This ban is not about America's fear of terrorism.




              And why exactly is America allowed to bomb Syrians if they are too much of terrorists to be allowed asylum in America after their houses have been destroyed??



              Everything is related, dont you see how many muslim rape gangs from Pakistan and Afghanistan there are in Europe?

              The thing is, extremist muslims who are at war with non muslims, are actually allowed to rape non muslim women, in their minds these women are their war booty's permitted by the Quran. Honestly most muslims dont even follow the Quran and hadiths, and this why by default they are peaceful. If one follows the Quran/Hadiths as a whole, that person should have no issues with ISIS

              As for your last point, America is indeed a horrible country, even the non muslims from south america/Europe will agree with you on this. It's only purpose is destroy and capture the world, and muslim world indeed has gone suffered greatly because of it, this in fact this is the reason the Islamic revival has happened, pre 1980, many areas of the muslim world had become secular. Islamic revival combined with American destruction are the reasons for today's catastrophe.
              Last edited by Karachi; 02-06-2017, 03:18 PM.

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by Karachi

                It's not about Muslims or religion. It is about your race, which you know is uglier than any other, that is why South Asians are all so desperate. Pakis and Indians, particularly Punjabis and Kashmiri, are disproportionate sex criminals and rapists.

                Hindu lawyers have been caught trying to cheat the British legal system out of serving justice to dung faced Paki child rapists. Subcontinentals of all religions are the same.


                Senior judge slams lawyers for obstructing Rochdale child sex grooming gang deportation case



                4 February 2017 • 8:00pm

                Lwyers are helping a child sex grooming gang avoid attempts to deport them by obstructing the courts and “weakening the rule of law”, Britain’s most senior immigration judge has warned.

                Mr Justice Bernard McCloskey accused taxpayer funded lawyers representing the gang of treating the immigration tribunal, which will decide whether they should be allowed to remain in Britain, with “sustained and marked disrespect”.

                The case has raised fears that convicted criminals are adopting a strategy of timewasting and obstructing the courts in an attempt to put off any possible deportation from the UK as long as possible.

                The judge said there had been “multiple recent examples of similar conduct and misconduct” and has urged Government legal officials to mount an investigation into such cases.

                MPs have accused lawyers of making money by “gaming the system” and using delaying tactics to spin out cases.

                The gang from Rochdale are appealing against a decision by then then Home Secretary, Theresa May, to strip them of British citizenship as the first step to deporting them.

                The four men, led by ringleader Shabir Ahmed, 63, were convicted in 2012 of preying on girls as young as 13 in Rochdale, plying them with drink and drugs before they were "passed around" for sex.

                Ahmed, who first came to the UK in 1967 aged 14 and was described by the judge at his trial as a "violent hypocritical bully", was given a 19-year sentence at Liverpool Crown Court in May 2012 for a string of child sex offences, including rape.

                He was also jailed for 22 years, to run concurrently, in July 2012 for raping another child 30 times over a decade.

                As well as appealing against deportation Ahmed appealed to the European Court of Human Rights (ECHR), claiming his convictions for child sex offences were a conspiracy by police and members of the jury to "scapegoat" Muslims. He lost the claim.

                Three other men convicted of child sex offences in the same case, Abdul Aziz, Adil Khan and Qari Abdul Rauf, are also appealing against being stripped of citizenship by the Home Secretary.

                Their solicitors, Nottingham-based firm Burton and Burton, are funded at taxpayer’s expense through the Legal Aid Fund, with their fees likely to be an estimated £50 to £70 an hour - which could add thousands of pounds over the course of the case..

                In some of the strongest criticism delivered by a judge, Justice McCloskey, President of the Immigration and Asylum Chamber, said: “The conduct of these appeals has been cavalier and unprofessional. The rule of law has been weakened in consequence.”

                In a damning ruling Justice McCloskey said the men’s barristers and solicitors had failed to submit the necessary papers to the court and had repeatedly asked for adjournments.

                Rajiv Sharma, the barrister who represented Ahmed, is a protege of one of Britain’s most famous campaigning lawyers, Michael Mansfield QC, and operates from chambers at the heart of Britain’s legal establishment in central London.

                Barrister for the other three men was Zainul Jafferji, who specialises in human rights, personal immigration, commercial immigration and asylum law.

                The solicitors for the men, Nottingham-based firm Burton and Burton, are funded at taxpayer’s expense through the Legal Aid Fund, with their fees likely to be an estimated £50 to £70 an hour - adding up to hundreds of pounds over the course of the case.

                Mr Justice McCloskey described the circumstances which had forced him to adjourn the case last December as “frankly shameful”.

                The judge, who is expected to deliver his decision on the men’s appeal against deportation this month, added: “Scarce judicial and administrative resources have been wasted in dealing with repeated unmeritorious requests by the Appellants’ solicitors for an adjournment.”

                He also criticised Government lawyers representing the home secretary, saying that they had only produced a skeleton argument at the “eleventh hour” and only after repeated requests from tribunal staff.

                “It was produced in egregious breach of the Tribunal’s Directions . . . A feeble and unacceptable excuse for this particular default has been proffered,” said the judge.

                One of the other delayed cases referred to by the judge involved a 49-year-old Nigerian refused permission to stay in Britain after Home Office officials found he had cheated in English language tests required for permission to stay in the UK.

                Justice McCloskey threatened to refer lawyers handling the Rochdale gang’s appeals to their professional bodies for disciplinary action, saying their behaviour could be regarded as being in contempt of court.

                Rauf, 47, a father of five, originally from Pakistan who also acted as a religious studies teacher at a mosque in Rochdale, was released on licence in 2015 after serving half of a six-year sentence for trafficking a girl, aged 15, to the UK for sex, and for having sex with the youngster himself.

                Aziz , a taxi driver, was cleared of two counts of rape but convicted of trafficking and conspiracy to engage in sexual activity with a child and sentenced to 18 years.

                He ferried the girls as far as Leeds and Bradford and was paid by the stream of men who used the girls for sex, getting £40 for each introduction.

                Khan , 42, another taxi driver, was sentenced to 18 years for trafficking and conspiracy to engage in sexual activity with a child. He came to Rochdale from Kashmiri Pakistan with his wife in 1997.

                Tim Loughton MP, a member of the Home Affairs Select Committee, which has investigated delays in deportation cases, accused immigration lawyers of “playing the system”, with some cases being spun out over months and even years.

                “We are seeing lawyers going through all sort of procedural measures to delay and delay on their client’s behalf,” he said. “In some cases the Home Office simply give up and let these people go rather than incur any further expense in detaining them pending deportation.”

                The Rochdale gang’s lawyers would not respond to the judge’s criticisms while the case was still being heard.

                However both barrister are understood to have apologised for “any unintended disrespect” to the court arising from the delays.

                Ahmed’s solicitors, Platt Halpern, said they had only received his case on a pro-bono - no fee - basis at “very short notice” and have since handed it over to Burton and Burton.

                Mr Sharma said he had been instructed at very short notice and is no longer handling the case.

                He added that he had “sought amends by sending personal apologies to the President for any unintended disrespect in an attempt to rebuild the ‘partnership between the legal profession and the judiciary’”.

                Zainul Jafferji, barrister for Khan, Rauf and Aziz, said: “The issue is still under consideration by the Upper Tribunal, so any comment about the matter would be entirely inappropriate.”

                Mohammed Mahruf, senior partner at Burton & Burton Solicitors, the Nottingham firm representing Khan, Rauf and Aziz on a legal aid basis, also refused to comment “while proceedings are on-going”.

                The Government Legal Department said the Treasury Solicitor had apologised to Mr Justice McCloskey for any delays caused by the Home Office’s lawyers to the cases.

                The Rochdale child sex grooming gang appealing against deportation

                Shabir Ahmed, sentenced to 22 years

                Shabir Ahmed, 63, was convicted in 2012 of being the ringleader of a group of men who preyed on girls as young as 13 in Rochdale, plying them with drink and drugs before passing them around for sex.

                He was given a 19-year sentence at Liverpool crown court in May 2012 for a string of child sex offences, including rape.

                Ahmed was also jailed for 22 years, to run concurrently, in July 2012 for 30 rape offences against another victim.

                The three-times married father of four first came to Britain from Pakistan in 1967, aged 14. He is a British citizen but would not be rendered stateless if stripped of citizenship as he retains Pakistani nationality.

                Adil Khan, sentenced to 18 years

                Adil Khan , 42, a taxi driver, was found guilty of trafficking and conspiracy to engage in sexual activity with a child.

                He came to Rochdale from Kashmiri Pakistan with his wife in 1997 and started a sexual relationship with one young girl just a few weeks after the birth of his wife’s first child, a son.

                The court heard he had got one 15-year-old pregnant, then passed another girl of the same age on to other men for sex, using violence to coerce her.

                Abdul Aziz, sentenced to 9 years

                Taxi driver, Abdul Aziz, 41, a married father-of-three, of Rochdale, was cleared of two counts of rape but convicted of trafficking for sexual exploitation.

                Aziz, who is of Pakistani origin, was said in court to have taken over as the main trafficker of girls.

                He kept a stash of condoms in his taxi and ferried the girls as far as Leeds and Bradford and was paid by the stream of men who used the girls for sex, getting £40 for each introduction.

                Abdul Rauf, sentenced to six years

                Abdul Rauf, 43, Rochdale, a married father-of-five, was convicted of trafficking a child within the UK for sexual exploitation.

                Rauf, a former religious studies teacher at a Rochdale mosque of Pakistani origin, who claimed to be a deeply religious, asked a 15-year-victim if she had any younger friends and would drive some of the girls to other men who would use them for sex.

                He was released on licence in 2015 after serving half of a six-year sentence.

                The gang’s lawyers

                The barrister representing convicted child rapist Shabir Ahmed is a protege of one of Britain’s most famous campaigning lawyers.

                Rajiv Sharma operates from the august surroundings of the 1 Gray’s Inn Square chambers led by Michael Mansfield QC, located at the heart of Britain’s legal establishment in central London.

                He boasts on the chamber's’ website that he “is known both for his ability as an ardent advocate and his vast legal knowledge” of immigration law
                Sharma was instructed by Manchester-based solicitors Platt Halpern, who dealt with the case pro bono - for no fee - but have since passed it on to Burton and Burton the firm dealing with the three other gang member’s cases.

                Naila Akhter, a partner at Platt Halpern, said the firm had been given Ahmed’s appeal to handle at very short notice and had been forced to ask for an adjournment in order to receive the necessary paperwork to defend their client.

                She said: “It’s appalling that we've been criticised in this way as we had only acted for the client on that single occasion. We have been doing pro-bono work for many years, representing vulnerable and underprivileged members of society and I (and my business partners ) were devastated by the judge’s comments.”

                Representing Khan, Rauf and Aziz were Leicester-based immigration and human rights barrister Zainul Jafferji, and Burton & Burton Solicitors, a Nottingham firm headed by senior partner Mohammed Mahruf.

                Mr Jafferji, who was called to the bar in 1999, specialises in human rights, personal immigration, commercial immigration, asylum, EU law on freedom of movement and unlawful detention.

                Speaking at Burton and Burton's offices in a converted pub in Sneinton, Nottingham, Mr Mahruf said: "I have been advised that it would be best not to make any comment at this time while proceedings are on-going."

                Senior judge slams lawyers for obstructing Rochdale child sex grooming gang deportation case
                Long Live Baloch Freedom Struggle Until Victory!
                sigpic
                Long Live Baloch Freedom Struggle Until Victory!

                Comment


                • #9
                  ^ Please show me Tamils, Bengalis, Central Indians etcc, doing this in Europe? Mostly Punjabis (Pakistanis) are involved in this and Arabs and Afghans too, and being muslim does have a huge impact here, why else would they shout allahu akbar?

                  We all know how non muslim women are viewed by muslim men

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by DaZahroJaam. View Post

                    You mean to say that people are always perfect at separating or recognizing their reasons as being influenced by their personal feelings?? People like Donald trump or Adolf Hitler's??
                    It would be nice if people could separate reason and sentiments but it rarely occurs in practice out there.
                    The world out there is as it is, not as it should be.



                    You are an emotional lady, honey. You can't have control over your sentiments. Since I am a superman I can keep control all the time. Thats the difference between you and me. Thats what makes me superior to you. :D
                    "For thirty years, I endured much pain and strife,
                    I awaken the Ajam by this Persian [language]. "

                    -Ferdowsi.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Friends of Baloch View Post

                      It's not about Muslims or religion. It is about your race, which you know is uglier than any other, that is why South Asians are all so desperate. Pakis and Indians, particularly Punjabis and Kashmiri, are disproportionate sex criminals and rapists.

                      Hindu lawyers have been caught trying to cheat the British legal system out of serving justice to dung faced Paki child rapists. Subcontinentals of all religions are the same.


                      Senior judge slams lawyers for obstructing Rochdale child sex grooming gang deportation case



                      4 February 2017 • 8:00pm

                      Lwyers are helping a child sex grooming gang avoid attempts to deport them by obstructing the courts and “weakening the rule of law”, Britain’s most senior immigration judge has warned.

                      Mr Justice Bernard McCloskey accused taxpayer funded lawyers representing the gang of treating the immigration tribunal, which will decide whether they should be allowed to remain in Britain, with “sustained and marked disrespect”.

                      The case has raised fears that convicted criminals are adopting a strategy of timewasting and obstructing the courts in an attempt to put off any possible deportation from the UK as long as possible.

                      The judge said there had been “multiple recent examples of similar conduct and misconduct” and has urged Government legal officials to mount an investigation into such cases.

                      MPs have accused lawyers of making money by “gaming the system” and using delaying tactics to spin out cases.

                      The gang from Rochdale are appealing against a decision by then then Home Secretary, Theresa May, to strip them of British citizenship as the first step to deporting them.

                      The four men, led by ringleader Shabir Ahmed, 63, were convicted in 2012 of preying on girls as young as 13 in Rochdale, plying them with drink and drugs before they were "passed around" for sex.

                      Ahmed, who first came to the UK in 1967 aged 14 and was described by the judge at his trial as a "violent hypocritical bully", was given a 19-year sentence at Liverpool Crown Court in May 2012 for a string of child sex offences, including rape.

                      He was also jailed for 22 years, to run concurrently, in July 2012 for raping another child 30 times over a decade.

                      As well as appealing against deportation Ahmed appealed to the European Court of Human Rights (ECHR), claiming his convictions for child sex offences were a conspiracy by police and members of the jury to "scapegoat" Muslims. He lost the claim.

                      Three other men convicted of child sex offences in the same case, Abdul Aziz, Adil Khan and Qari Abdul Rauf, are also appealing against being stripped of citizenship by the Home Secretary.

                      Their solicitors, Nottingham-based firm Burton and Burton, are funded at taxpayer’s expense through the Legal Aid Fund, with their fees likely to be an estimated £50 to £70 an hour - which could add thousands of pounds over the course of the case..

                      In some of the strongest criticism delivered by a judge, Justice McCloskey, President of the Immigration and Asylum Chamber, said: “The conduct of these appeals has been cavalier and unprofessional. The rule of law has been weakened in consequence.”

                      In a damning ruling Justice McCloskey said the men’s barristers and solicitors had failed to submit the necessary papers to the court and had repeatedly asked for adjournments.

                      Rajiv Sharma, the barrister who represented Ahmed, is a protege of one of Britain’s most famous campaigning lawyers, Michael Mansfield QC, and operates from chambers at the heart of Britain’s legal establishment in central London.

                      Barrister for the other three men was Zainul Jafferji, who specialises in human rights, personal immigration, commercial immigration and asylum law.

                      The solicitors for the men, Nottingham-based firm Burton and Burton, are funded at taxpayer’s expense through the Legal Aid Fund, with their fees likely to be an estimated £50 to £70 an hour - adding up to hundreds of pounds over the course of the case.

                      Mr Justice McCloskey described the circumstances which had forced him to adjourn the case last December as “frankly shameful”.

                      The judge, who is expected to deliver his decision on the men’s appeal against deportation this month, added: “Scarce judicial and administrative resources have been wasted in dealing with repeated unmeritorious requests by the Appellants’ solicitors for an adjournment.”

                      He also criticised Government lawyers representing the home secretary, saying that they had only produced a skeleton argument at the “eleventh hour” and only after repeated requests from tribunal staff.

                      “It was produced in egregious breach of the Tribunal’s Directions . . . A feeble and unacceptable excuse for this particular default has been proffered,” said the judge.

                      One of the other delayed cases referred to by the judge involved a 49-year-old Nigerian refused permission to stay in Britain after Home Office officials found he had cheated in English language tests required for permission to stay in the UK.

                      Justice McCloskey threatened to refer lawyers handling the Rochdale gang’s appeals to their professional bodies for disciplinary action, saying their behaviour could be regarded as being in contempt of court.

                      Rauf, 47, a father of five, originally from Pakistan who also acted as a religious studies teacher at a mosque in Rochdale, was released on licence in 2015 after serving half of a six-year sentence for trafficking a girl, aged 15, to the UK for sex, and for having sex with the youngster himself.

                      Aziz , a taxi driver, was cleared of two counts of rape but convicted of trafficking and conspiracy to engage in sexual activity with a child and sentenced to 18 years.

                      He ferried the girls as far as Leeds and Bradford and was paid by the stream of men who used the girls for sex, getting £40 for each introduction.

                      Khan , 42, another taxi driver, was sentenced to 18 years for trafficking and conspiracy to engage in sexual activity with a child. He came to Rochdale from Kashmiri Pakistan with his wife in 1997.

                      Tim Loughton MP, a member of the Home Affairs Select Committee, which has investigated delays in deportation cases, accused immigration lawyers of “playing the system”, with some cases being spun out over months and even years.

                      “We are seeing lawyers going through all sort of procedural measures to delay and delay on their client’s behalf,” he said. “In some cases the Home Office simply give up and let these people go rather than incur any further expense in detaining them pending deportation.”

                      The Rochdale gang’s lawyers would not respond to the judge’s criticisms while the case was still being heard.

                      However both barrister are understood to have apologised for “any unintended disrespect” to the court arising from the delays.

                      Ahmed’s solicitors, Platt Halpern, said they had only received his case on a pro-bono - no fee - basis at “very short notice” and have since handed it over to Burton and Burton.

                      Mr Sharma said he had been instructed at very short notice and is no longer handling the case.

                      He added that he had “sought amends by sending personal apologies to the President for any unintended disrespect in an attempt to rebuild the ‘partnership between the legal profession and the judiciary’”.

                      Zainul Jafferji, barrister for Khan, Rauf and Aziz, said: “The issue is still under consideration by the Upper Tribunal, so any comment about the matter would be entirely inappropriate.”

                      Mohammed Mahruf, senior partner at Burton & Burton Solicitors, the Nottingham firm representing Khan, Rauf and Aziz on a legal aid basis, also refused to comment “while proceedings are on-going”.

                      The Government Legal Department said the Treasury Solicitor had apologised to Mr Justice McCloskey for any delays caused by the Home Office’s lawyers to the cases.

                      The Rochdale child sex grooming gang appealing against deportation

                      Shabir Ahmed, sentenced to 22 years

                      Shabir Ahmed, 63, was convicted in 2012 of being the ringleader of a group of men who preyed on girls as young as 13 in Rochdale, plying them with drink and drugs before passing them around for sex.

                      He was given a 19-year sentence at Liverpool crown court in May 2012 for a string of child sex offences, including rape.

                      Ahmed was also jailed for 22 years, to run concurrently, in July 2012 for 30 rape offences against another victim.

                      The three-times married father of four first came to Britain from Pakistan in 1967, aged 14. He is a British citizen but would not be rendered stateless if stripped of citizenship as he retains Pakistani nationality.

                      Adil Khan, sentenced to 18 years

                      Adil Khan , 42, a taxi driver, was found guilty of trafficking and conspiracy to engage in sexual activity with a child.

                      He came to Rochdale from Kashmiri Pakistan with his wife in 1997 and started a sexual relationship with one young girl just a few weeks after the birth of his wife’s first child, a son.

                      The court heard he had got one 15-year-old pregnant, then passed another girl of the same age on to other men for sex, using violence to coerce her.

                      Abdul Aziz, sentenced to 9 years

                      Taxi driver, Abdul Aziz, 41, a married father-of-three, of Rochdale, was cleared of two counts of rape but convicted of trafficking for sexual exploitation.

                      Aziz, who is of Pakistani origin, was said in court to have taken over as the main trafficker of girls.

                      He kept a stash of condoms in his taxi and ferried the girls as far as Leeds and Bradford and was paid by the stream of men who used the girls for sex, getting £40 for each introduction.

                      Abdul Rauf, sentenced to six years

                      Abdul Rauf, 43, Rochdale, a married father-of-five, was convicted of trafficking a child within the UK for sexual exploitation.

                      Rauf, a former religious studies teacher at a Rochdale mosque of Pakistani origin, who claimed to be a deeply religious, asked a 15-year-victim if she had any younger friends and would drive some of the girls to other men who would use them for sex.

                      He was released on licence in 2015 after serving half of a six-year sentence.

                      The gang’s lawyers

                      The barrister representing convicted child rapist Shabir Ahmed is a protege of one of Britain’s most famous campaigning lawyers.

                      Rajiv Sharma operates from the august surroundings of the 1 Gray’s Inn Square chambers led by Michael Mansfield QC, located at the heart of Britain’s legal establishment in central London.

                      He boasts on the chamber's’ website that he “is known both for his ability as an ardent advocate and his vast legal knowledge” of immigration law
                      Sharma was instructed by Manchester-based solicitors Platt Halpern, who dealt with the case pro bono - for no fee - but have since passed it on to Burton and Burton the firm dealing with the three other gang member’s cases.

                      Naila Akhter, a partner at Platt Halpern, said the firm had been given Ahmed’s appeal to handle at very short notice and had been forced to ask for an adjournment in order to receive the necessary paperwork to defend their client.

                      She said: “It’s appalling that we've been criticised in this way as we had only acted for the client on that single occasion. We have been doing pro-bono work for many years, representing vulnerable and underprivileged members of society and I (and my business partners ) were devastated by the judge’s comments.”

                      Representing Khan, Rauf and Aziz were Leicester-based immigration and human rights barrister Zainul Jafferji, and Burton & Burton Solicitors, a Nottingham firm headed by senior partner Mohammed Mahruf.

                      Mr Jafferji, who was called to the bar in 1999, specialises in human rights, personal immigration, commercial immigration, asylum, EU law on freedom of movement and unlawful detention.

                      Speaking at Burton and Burton's offices in a converted pub in Sneinton, Nottingham, Mr Mahruf said: "I have been advised that it would be best not to make any comment at this time while proceedings are on-going."

                      Senior judge slams lawyers for obstructing Rochdale child sex grooming gang deportation case
                      Indians are an ugly race. Now wonder they need to rape women in order to get laid.
                      "For thirty years, I endured much pain and strife,
                      I awaken the Ajam by this Persian [language]. "

                      -Ferdowsi.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Using violence against women as propaganda is pretty old tactic. It was used in the US south against blacks. They would exaggerate and make things up riling up crowds that hunted black men and lynching them. They did this according to this study because people feared they were increasing in population.
                        Outrageous Justice : Riots, Lynchings, False Accusations, and Court Trials - African American Studies Research Guide - LibGuides at Michigan State University Libraries

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Firdousi View Post
                          You are an emotional lady, honey. You can't have control over your sentiments. Since I am a superman I can keep control all the time. Thats the difference between you and me. Thats what makes me superior to you. :D
                          Well sweetheart, if you could get a grip on your emotions, you would know better than turning this conversation about you and me and stick to the subject by addressing the issues at hand instead of behaving like a male version of two penny *****s, standing by the side of the road, trying to coax men with their unwanted and unwelcomed comments.
                          Your mother must have kicked you off your crib the moment you were born in order for you to have so much love for random strangers.

                          "To burn always with this hard gemlike flame, to maintain this ecstasy, is success in life."





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                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Karachi View Post
                            Everything is related, dont you see how many muslim rape gangs from Pakistan and Afghanistan there are in Europe?

                            The thing is, extremist muslims who are at war with non muslims, are actually allowed to rape non muslim women, in their minds these women are their war booty's permitted by the Quran. Honestly most muslims dont even follow the Quran and hadiths, and this why by default they are peaceful. If one follows the Quran/Hadiths as a whole, that person should have no issues with ISIS

                            As for your last point, America is indeed a horrible country, even the non muslims from south america/Europe will agree with you on this. It's only purpose is destroy and capture the world, and muslim world indeed has gone suffered greatly because of it, this in fact this is the reason the Islamic revival has happened, pre 1980, many areas of the muslim world had become secular. Islamic revival combined with American destruction are the reasons for today's catastrophe.

                            Religion is not the only factor responsible for the construction of a society's culture. These men commit such crimes because they have gotten away with it in the past and believe they will get away with it again, not that despite being in a western society, they are unable to make themselves behave or have no control over their actions.

                            "To burn always with this hard gemlike flame, to maintain this ecstasy, is success in life."





                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Firdousi View Post
                              Indians are an ugly race. Now wonder they need to rape women in order to get laid.

                              These are not indian you douch bag, they are your muslim paki brothers and afghans also rape in Europe: Afghan immigrant is arrested in Germany over murder of medical student | Daily Mail Online

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