Govt report proposes merger of Fata with KP

[dawn]

Like I said, your punjabi tatti brain needs much improved comprehension. "Bragged about punjabi military cantts"... chal dalkhor, go make yourself useful. Your true calling is to be a chiprasi. Mop my floor, while pimping your sisters, and believing you're not 99% south asian.

Don't give away details of your elite family business. If you are done selling goats then job of elite chowkidar is always available in any punjab city. Actually you don't need to move to punjab, just find the job in Peshawar cantt. Most likely your boss will turn out to be punjabi.

[Charsi Malang]

The only uniqueness of the tribal areas , is its FCR law

Tribal areas are unique in the sense that they are a living reminder of defiance to colonialism, however "backwards" they may be. The FCR law you have mentioned proves this, as it was an unfair system brought into effect to control these people when they were offering resistance. These tribals will proudly tell you that they never were brought into the sphere of imperialism and fought for their own lands and won. This in itself is something that is not often found and many outsiders will look at it with admiration. Every society and system has its flaws and tribal areas are no exception but these people have managed to exist for centuries without a centralised government.Indeed they were never disarmed, nor paid taxes and were never subjects. A lot of people belonging to the tribal areas would argue that their lands have unfairly been left out of any initiatives to improve their living conditions and have been encouraged to remain "backwards".

[Charsi Malang]

Tribal culture should be banished . Majority of the traditions are not compatible with rest of the country . Honour killings , Lack of education , Tunnel Thinking , Poverty , Medieval traditions are some of the fruits of Tribal culture that have nothing to do with 21st century . They need to be assimilated with rest of the country to end this misery .

All Pashtun culture is essentially tribal. In outside cities this is diluted down but is in origin tribal. All the negative aspects you have quoted are not only unique to tribal culture but exist elsewhere in abundance in Pakistan as well- in fact in most rural areas. Hell- honour killings happen in the West as well. I personally feel there are a lot of stereotypes about tribal culture that are constantly put out on the media that are unfair. A lot of tribals I have met are not against education and like anyone would love not to be poor. You should see some Pakistanis here in the West-not of tribal origin but from other parts of Pakistan an you'll see how a lot of their general traits are not compatible with the 21st century.

[Peshawer_222]

Murree has chairlifts, so +1

Murree is overcrowded (with punjus) so -1 (-2?)
Murree also stinks more than Mansehra (-1)

Overall Mansehra is boring and nothing more than a tiny village. Murree is overcrowde.

Murree is overcrowded with alot of races . It has an expressway and a developed hotel infrastructure hence the busiest resort in all of Pakistan . There is nothing to see in Mansehra . A correct comparison would be between Murree and Nathiagali .

GB , Swat and Kaghan blows everyone out of the park when it comes to landscapes though .

[Peshawer_222]

Like Jinnah Baba

No like our religion orders us not to poke in everyone's business . What I or you do with religion shouldn't be anybody's concern . This isn't iran where you are answerable to mullah everytime .

[Samandri]

These tribals will proudly tell you that they never were brought into the sphere of imperialism and fought for their own lands and won..

They indeed make such claim and i tell them that its historically inaccurate, they lost to British.......i remind them that they are not supermen and they never were supermen

[Charsi Malang]

They indeed make such claim and i tell them that its historically inaccurate, they lost to British.......i remind them that they are not supermen and they never were supermen

I beg to differ. They did not lose to the British- British laws could never be imposed on these people-they remained independent in their areas-yes some battles they did lose like every nation-but overall they were not conquered. The British themselves accept that they could not conquer these mountains nor the people living in them and educated British people still have admiration for tribesmen despite the current climate. You are only conquered when you believe you have been conquered and accept it. Resistance in these areas never stopped. These tribesmen are far from being superhuman.... But they do have a vast history of independence and spirit which is recognised the world over.

[Samandri]

I beg to differ. They did not lose to the British- British laws could never be imposed on these people-they remained independent in their areas-yes some battles they did lose like every nation-but overall they were not conquered. The British themselves accept that they could not conquer these mountains nor the people living in them and educated British people still have admiration for tribesmen despite the current climate. You are only conquered when you believe you have been conquered and accept it. Resistance in these areas never stopped. These tribesmen are far from being superhuman.... But they do have a vast history of independence and spirit which is recognised the world over.

Unruly streak, not being submissive and spirit of resisting occupations, is not 'uniqueness' of FATA, its true about history of entire Pashtun nation stretched across Pakistan and Afghanistan. What unique and different about FATA is its colonial FCR laws around which their lives are shaped. Their culture and customs are same as other Pashtuns of Afghanistan and Pakistan.

British governed them through the laws they made and through their agents, imposed fines on them and forced them to deliver criminals and took expeditions against them whenever they refused to cooperate. Military posts were built in the tribal areas after treaties with local tribes, and tribal chiefs were given paid allowances. Tribals just being unruly, they were never able to shake off the control of British over them. When Turkish agents in Khyber agency during world war I , tried to instigate the uprising of Afridis against British, they had to face failure as British simply used the pro-British paid Maliks in the region who formed lashkars which destroyed pro-Turkish activity in the region.

Why do you think heroic figure like Faqir of IPI badly failed? because chieftains of Waziristan gave up on him due to stick and carrot of British.

[Charsi Malang]

Unruly streak, not being submissive and spirit of resisting occupations, is not 'uniqueness' of FATA, its true about history of entire Pashtun nation stretched across Pakistan and Afghanistan. What unique and different about FATA is its colonial FCR laws around which their lives are shaped. Their culture and customs are same as other Pashtuns of Afghanistan and Pakistan.

British governed them through the laws they made and through their agents, imposed fines on them and forced them to deliver criminals and took expeditions against them whenever they refused to cooperate. Military posts were built in the tribal areas after treaties with local tribes, and tribal chiefs were given paid allowances. Tribals just being unruly, they were never able to shake off the control of British over them. When Turkish agents in Khyber agency during world war I , tried to instigate the uprising of Afridis against British, they had to face failure as British simply used the pro-British paid Maliks in the region who formed lashkars which destroyed pro-Turkish activity in the region.

Why do you think heroic figure like Faqir of IPI badly failed? because chieftains of Waziristan gave up on him due to stick and carrot of British.

Resisting foreign occupation is a common trait amongst all Pashtuns but the tribals managed to maintain this more effectively than anyone else in the region. Their lives may have been and still are influenced by the FCR law, but within their homelands and villages, laws made in England couldn't be forced upon them. The culture, customs and language of other Pashtuns outside FATA are a lot more dilute as compared to the ones within FATA.

The British did not govern FATA in the same way as the rest of the conquered lands because they couldn't. When it came to armed conflict the British found they were dealing with a situation they couldn't control through might, which is why they had policies like carrot and stick and masterly inactivity.

FATA and the tribal areas are known by these names because they have always been semi independent. Yes battles were lost but on the whole these people were not colonised and were left alone so long as they did not interfere in what they knew as the "reyasat" which were British held territories. A lot of the Maliks did succumb to the allowances and grants, but after all they were only human. The British could influence things in tribal areas but were not the masters of those lands.

Faqir of Ipi remained a thorn in the side for the British right to the end, and died a natural death. He was never captured as you know. He may not have succeeded with his Pashtunistan dreams, but I wouldn't consider his actions a failure.

Despite what you say, these tribals were not the Queens subjects and neither were they enslaved.

[Samandri]

Resisting foreign occupation is a common trait amongst all Pashtuns but the tribals managed to maintain this more effectively than anyone else in the region. Their lives may have been and still are influenced by the FCR law, but within their homelands and villages, laws made in England couldn't be forced upon them. .

Recently entire Market in Wana was blown up according to British-made FCR, how is that not having impact on their homes and livelihood?........they have been forcibly governed through the most oppressive kind of British laws for more than hundred years and they were getting recruited in British Indian army.

The only Pashtuns who who did not come under colonial rule and influences, were/are Pashtuns of Afghanistan, and they managed to repel British invasions some how because there was semblance of central authority in Kabul so resistance was not sporadic and aimless.

[Charsi Malang]

Recently entire Market in Wana was blown up according to British-made FCR, how is that not having impact on their homes and livelihood?........they have been forcibly governed through the most oppressive kind of British laws for more than hundred years and they were getting recruited in British Indian army.

The only Pashtuns who who did not come under colonial rule and influences, were/are Pashtuns of Afghanistan, and they managed to repel British invasions some how because there was semblance of central authority in Kabul so resistance was not sporadic and aimless.

Pakistani army has caused more damage to tribal areas than the British did. In today's climate and threat of worldwide terrorism this would have happened whether FCR existed or not. The tribal people were not governed in their own lands and were not recruited in the British army through force. If they wanted to, they joined freely. Many did it for money and would on one hand be a part of the army and at the same time also offer resistance. Or when things did not suit them they would simply go AWOL. The British themselves realised then and even know that the tribal lands were not pacified.

There certainly was influence on the tribal lands through the presence of a superpower right on the doorstep but to the greater extent the tribes did maintain their independence. I don't think I can change your perspective on this one brother, and I don't think you can change mine either.

The Pashtun tribes on the Afghan side may have been under the influence of the British to a lesser degree but then again settled British areas did not adjoin their lands which does make a difference.