Destroy the myth

[DSM0305]

There you go with your abuse and name calling . You guys need to learn how to talk and discuss topics with people from other backgrounds without your hatred in full flow . No Pakistani assumes they are helping Pashtuns . Every Pakistani is mature enough to understand that their government is meddling in Afghanistan for its own strategic interests .

I can speak, discuss and debate with whoever they're and where ever they live, but I cant tolerate people who have nothing to say and still copy and paste their propaganda as a copping mechanism.

You turn every topic into a Pakistani vs Afghan thread with your usual rant. So I fail to see how my so called abuse is based on your background. It was based on your unrelated rant.

[Firdousi]

[MENTION=8995]DSM0305[/MENTION], very interesting. What do you think of the northern alliance? Is there a concern that afghan government is overrepresented by Tajiks? Is there not an ethnic "battle" of sorts to determine who's going to be in power in Afghanistan?

Current Afghan government is mainly made up of non-Tajiks. Actually most of them are Pashtuns. During Karzais regime Tajiks had a lot of power. in the government but that has changed a lot But we still control the army, the economy, culture, media, NDS and the government. Believe me dude if Taliban failed to Pashtunize this country, nobody else will. Pashtun culture will never be equal to Tajik culture basically because Pashtun culture is synonym to tribalism and underdeveloped ruralism.

BTW Northern Alliance doesn't exist anymore. Its just pure propaganda spread by uneducated Pakistanis nationalists. NA joined the government while others were sidelined after few years (Ismael Khan, Sayyaf, etc). So its pure BS.

[Firdousi]

There have been countless statements by Pakistanis, both in this forum and others. One in particular bothers me the most and should be addressed asap. That particular statement is, that Pakistanis are helping Pashtuns in Afghanistan or as some rephrase it and said; Taliban in Afghanistan are Pashtuns who fight the ''oppressive'' northern alliance.

First of all, lets analyze how Taliban are the one who keeps Pashtuns away from power.

Taliban have been active mostly in Pashtun dominated south and east. The soldiers, officials, police etc. everyone who got killed by far are mostly Pashtuns. Civilians who got caught in cross fire or killed by suicide bombs are all Pashtuns. All the property destroyed are mostly Pashtun owned. Roads, bridges and other infrastructure destroyed or in general prevented being built at all, are all in Pashtun dominated areas. Population prevented gaining education are all in Pashtun dominated areas. Governmental jobs prevented by the insurgency are all in Pashtun dominated areas. War refugee are mostly Pashtuns.

So can anyone tell me, how in god name are the Taliban or Pakistanis supporting Pashtuns in Afghanistan... Pashtuns in Afghanistan were the elites, the most educated and the richest people in Afghanistan before the wars. Now Pashtuns are probably the most miserable people in Afghanistan, not because we are weak, but because Pashtuns have been caught between a wall and a hard place. Pashtuns are certainly not weak, despite all the odds and insurgency who constantly making the life miserable for them, despite other ethnicities constantly nagging them, many still manage to hold big positions in the government. Pashtuns still manage to be equally represented in the government.

Basically what Pakistan have done by supporting Taliban is damaging Pashtuns in Afghanistan. There have never been any bigger obstacle for Pashtuns than the insurgency in Afghanistan. Pashtuns have been damaged literally in every field by the insurgency; education, economy, business, jobs opportunities, military, governmental, society in general.

Do you guys know that Pashtun areas are worth less land wise than other areas. Do you guys know that business wise there are far more opportunities in non-pashtun areas than Pashtun areas. Do you guys know why? It because the Pashtun areas are insecure and are in constant threat. Due to insurgency there are far less government activities in those areas, which not only make it insecure, but also gives free access to criminals for their activities. Most killings and kidnappings are done there, because police have limited access there.

I am not here to burst bobbles, but want to inform people that Pakistanis are by no means any help to Pashtuns, they're the biggest obstacle for Pashtuns.

I am not here to debate Pakistani vs afghan thing. I posted this to rebuke the myth that Pakistanis are somehow helping/supporting Pashtuns in Afghanistan. Pakistanis have done nothing but support an obstacle for Pashtuns. Even if you as a Pakistani support Taliban, at least have the decency to not fool yourself and others, by saying that you're supporting Pashtuns.

I do agree with you that Pashtuns are the main victims of this war but you guys need seriously stop blaming on other people all your miseries. Pashtun nationalists started this mess. It was Pashtun nationalists who refused to accept Pakistan. It was Pashtun nationalists who had an aggressive policy toward Pakistan. It was Pashtun nationalists who "hijacked" every single system in Afghanistan (monarchy, republic, communists, mujahedeens and now democracy). It was Pashtun nationalists who had a discriminatory policy toward non Pashtuns. Basically you brought all this disgrace and mess upon yourselves, guys. Hakikat talkh ast.

[DSM0305]

And you dont think 29 % is alarming ? 29 % Of your population means 8-9 million Afghans sympathise with them .

You didn't realize many thing. First of all, this article is from 2011. Second thing you didn't realize is that it is dropping. Third thing, it is adult population and probably men. Which is far from 8-9 million.

So if we take the statistics that is provided. It has been dropping more than 11 % every year. Today it is 2016, almost 17. So from 2011 to 2016, there is 5 years. If we assume that the drop rate will remain 11 %, then it should have dropped 55 %. Obviously there cant be minus in sympathizing, so even if we assume the drop rate slowed down, then we will have close to 0 % in sympathizing. Which isn't far from truth, since I have seen even hardcore sympathizers of Taliban turning away from them. This includes me, but I turned away much earlier.

[DSM0305]

I do agree with you that Pashtuns are the main victims of this war but you guys need seriously stop blaming on other people all your miseries. Pashtun nationalists started this mess. It was Pashtun nationalists who refused to accept Pakistan. It was Pashtun nationalists who had an aggressive policy toward Pakistan. It was Pashtun nationalists who "hijacked" every single system in Afghanistan (monarchy, republic, communists, mujahedeens and now democracy). It was Pashtun nationalists who had a discriminatory policy toward non Pashtuns. Basically you brought all this disgrace and mess upon yourselves, guys. Hakikat talkh ast.

Hey look, another idiot whose gone off topic. I just copy and paste what I wrote to the other dude.

I don't know whether you're in propaganda spree, whose sole purpose is to copy and past the same thing over and over again, or you're actually an idiot with comprehension problems. My conclusion is that you're both. Basically a mental unstable idiot who repeat the same thing over and over again, with no comprehension skill to comprehend what other posters write.

Debunking your statements are quite easy, but this topic isn't about your mental unstable state of mind.

This topic is about the fact that Pakistanis assumes they're supporting Pashtuns in Afghanistan, which I showed that they don't. And I knew some idiot like you would come and turn this topic into an Pashtun vs Farsiwan thing, so I made sure to mention that it is not. I just didn't expect a complete retard like you to still turn this off topic.

[Peshawer_222]

You didn't realize many thing. First of all, this article is from 2011. Second thing you didn't realize is that it is dropping. Third thing, it is adult population and probably men. Which is far from 8-9 million.

So if we take the statistics that is provided. It has been dropping more than 11 % every year. Today it is 2016, almost 17. So from 2011 to 2016, there is 5 years. If we assume that the drop rate will remain 11 %, then it should have dropped 55 %. Obviously there cant be minus in sympathizing, so even if we assume the drop rate slowed down, then we will have close to 0 % in sympathizing. Which isn't far from truth, since I have seen even hardcore sympathizers of Taliban turning away from them. This includes me, but I turned away much earlier.

If it makes you sleep at night happily than you are free to think that there is no support for Talibs . Kunduz has been overrun twice , last time not too long ago and on both occasions the locals welcomed them .

The posters here judge Pakistanis by race , skin and colour so a good dose of reality is needed for them to realize where Afghanistan stands in grand scheme of things worldwide .

[Samandri]

Kunduz has been overrun twice , last time not too long ago and on both occasions the locals welcomed them .

.

Swat of Pakistan was also overrun by Taliban, and remained under Taliban rule for two years......yet Pakistanis insist that Taliban had no support from the locals......why?. We were hearing news that Swatis were welcoming Taliban and their Sharia.....the after military operation , we were told that it was not the case that Swatis had no choice but to welcome Taliban and cooperate with them.

[Friends of Baloch]

Swat of Pakistan was also overrun by Taliban, and remained under Taliban rule for two years......yet Pakistanis insist that Taliban had no support from the locals......why?. We were hearing news that Swatis were welcoming Taliban and their Sharia.....the after military operation , we were told that it was not the case that Swatis had no choice but to welcome Taliban and cooperate with them.

In Afghanistan the US policy makers made their army and Afghan army fight with restricted conditions they call ROE (rules of engagement) which is like fighting the enemy with one arm tied behind the back or worse.

Pakiland does not give such restriction to Dravidian army. That is why in Swat then FATA they simply bombed entire towns and villages from air causing almost 2 million IDPs (internally displaced persons). Then when paki thinks it is safe they move in ground forces into destroyed areas, detain everyone left they find, then bring few smelly paki reporters to show them "evidence" of successful "ground operation" and declare victory.

This is the paki coward way. Bomb their own defenceless Pashtun civilians, their own so called Paki citizens, from air forcing 2 million to become IDPs and then declare victory against TTP and Pakiland zindabad, and beg international agencies for money for "fighting against Taliban".

What sick place this Pakiland is.

[Peshawer_222]

Swat of Pakistan was also overrun by Taliban, and remained under Taliban rule for two years......yet Pakistanis insist that Taliban had no support from the locals......why?. We were hearing news that Swatis were welcoming Taliban and their Sharia.....the after military operation , we were told that it was not the case that Swatis had no choice but to welcome Taliban and cooperate with them.

There is no support for Taliban rule in any part of Pakistan . Our people are too moderate for Sharia . Unlike Saudi , Iran , Somalia , Afghanistan or many other Muslim countries our people have never elected Maulvis to power Pakistan has always been ruled by somewhat secular parties like PPP , Then Semi Liberal era of Musharraf and now Nawaz league which is now getting blamed by JUI for making Pakistan too secular . The only time i can recall Pakistan having Resemblance of being a little Islamic was under General Zia-ul-haq .

Swat was a tactical move by zardari to sign the peace deal and then bring all talibs to one place and then kill all of them .

Swat deal a tactical move: Haqqani

[Samandri]

Swat was a tactical move by zardari to sign the peace deal and then bring all talibs to one place and then kill all of them .

You are very dumb.............

[Peshawer_222]

You are very dumb.............

Read the link provided to you .

Operation Black Thunderstorm - Wikipedia

On May 13, 2009, Pakistan's ambassador to the United States Husain Haqqani revealed on The Daily Show to Jon Stewart that Pakistan's decision to strike a peace deal with Taliban militants earlier, which effectively ceded control of large swathes of the country's northwest, was all part of a cunning plan to fool the Taliban, which is now coming to fruition with the commencement of Operation Black Thunderstorm. The ambassador mentioned to Jon Stewart that President Asif Ali Zardari's signing of the Nizam-e-Adl Regulation, which was the Swat peace deal, was nothing more than a trick to lure the Taliban from the mountains and countryside to the main towns where it would be much easier for the Pakistani military to kill or capture them.

Swat and FATA episodes are over . Swat episode finished 8 years ago and FATA is getting its IDP's back . Pakistan army is now sitting till Tirah and Shawal so your TTP bretheren can enjoy their honeymoon in Afghanistan .

[Kakar-Wardak]

There is no support for Taliban rule in any part of Pakistan . Our people are too moderate for Sharia . Unlike Saudi , Iran , Somalia , Afghanistan or many other Muslim countries our people have never elected Maulvis to power Pakistan has always been ruled by somewhat secular parties like PPP , Then Semi Liberal era of Musharraf and now Nawaz league which is now getting blamed by JUI for making Pakistan too secular . The only time i can recall Pakistan having Resemblance of being a little Islamic was under General Zia-ul-haq .

Swat was a tactical move by zardari to sign the peace deal and then bring all talibs to one place and then kill all of them .

Swat deal a tactical move: Haqqani

It is well know that after swat operation terrorism actually increased in pak.

[Peshawer_222]

It is well know that after swat operation terrorism actually increased in pak.

2008-2013 was the only time in 70 years when some parts like FATA and KP got Unstable . Thanks to Raheel Sharif Things are back to normal

[Porus]

You cannot compare BLA and Taliban . BLA have a few dozen fighters left . Rest have either laid down their arms or have been shot dead by forces . TTP also has been dismantled from KP and Fata and currently hold no ground on our territory .

Talibans case is different because it is kind of a parallel government to Ashraf Ghani's. It holds 35 % area of all Afghanistan , has significant support amongst the locals because of rampant corruption in Afghanistan . Justice is not given hence people prefer going to Taliban jury for settlements .

David Cameron is only half right about Afghanistan and Nigeria being the 'most corrupt countries in the world' | The Independent

Somalia , Noth Korea and Afghanistan were the most corrupt countries in the world . Solve this problem and 50 % of your problems will be solved . Courts are corrupt to the core , Your governers take money and give land to Taliban , Rampant corruption in your army means that they lack any professionalism . When they see an approaching talib they vacate their posts . Guardian is quoted as saying even if tap water is to be set up it gets politicised . If the country and government is corrupt to this end how do you blame people swinging towards talibs?

Solve your internal issues instead of Blaming Pakistan for everything

You clearly haven't spoken to an ethnic Baloch before. BLA, you're right that it's not a full blown insurgency, but it's a representation of how a lot of Baloch people feel. The only reason it doesn't catch fire is because there is no open support (yet) for the BLA. India and Afghanistan might be funding them secretly but there's no real evidence. Whereas Pakistan has been funding the Indian and Kashmiri Mujahideen since its inception, and it makes no secret about it.

Also the BLA, are barely comparable to the Taliban. They have a few instances of picking up Punjabis from Quetta and killing them... which is awful, but if you compare that to the scale of violence that the Taliban have committed, for ****s sake, these people blew up a school full of children. They've massacred Muslims and non-Muslims, the BLA are nothing compared to that, and also, the instances of violence against Punjabis cannot be compared to the amount of innocent Baloch picked and dumped by Pakistani forces.

99% of Afghan pashtuns IN AFGHANISTAN support Taliban.

Well that's just not true is it.

If it makes you sleep at night happily than you are free to think that there is no support for Talibs . Kunduz has been overrun twice , last time not too long ago and on both occasions the locals welcomed them .

The posters here judge Pakistanis by race , skin and colour so a good dose of reality is needed for them to realize where Afghanistan stands in grand scheme of things worldwide .

Let me ask you something. If you can't tolerate TTP, why do you expect Afghans to tolerate the the Taliban? These are the same people. They share the same goals. Same killers of children, murderers of women, Hazaras etc. Why be hypocritical? And then why act surprised when Afghans don't like you?

[Peshawer_222]

You clearly haven't spoken to an ethnic Baloch before. BLA, you're right that it's not a full blown insurgency, but it's a representation of how a lot of Baloch people feel. The only reason it doesn't catch fire is because there is no open support (yet) for the BLA. India and Afghanistan might be funding them secretly but there's no real evidence. Whereas Pakistan has been funding the Indian and Kashmiri Mujahideen since its inception, and it makes no secret about it.

Also the BLA, are barely comparable to the Taliban. They have a few instances of picking up Punjabis from Quetta and killing them... which is awful, but if you compare that to the scale of violence that the Taliban have committed, for ****s sake, these people blew up a school full of children. They've massacred Muslims and non-Muslims, the BLA are nothing compared to that, and also, the instances of violence against Punjabis cannot be compared to the amount of innocent Baloch picked and dumped by Pakistani forces.



Well that's just not true is it.



Let me ask you something. If you can't tolerate TTP, why do you expect Afghans to tolerate the the Taliban? These are the same people. They share the same goals. Same killers of children, murderers of women, Hazaras etc. Why be hypocritical? And then why act surprised when Afghans don't like you?

Where are you from ? So that I have a better understanding where your thoughts are coming from .