A true story about Pashtun nationalism

[Iblis_Efreetzai]

^^^ I agree nationalisms are disaeases and Nation States are remnants of Colonial Constructs

But we should also find a Happy Medium with people and their cultures. Islam is not here to bowl over everyone's heritage. It's just here to end the stupid narrow minded ethnocentrism that comes along. Not stop people from enjoying Nawruz or dancing Attan. Those are issues Islam is not concerned with and never has been. The scholars that have tried to argue that it does cover those, are merely saying that to serve certain agendas.

Look at a few of the current members KingdomofHeaven/One1/KMD2010. They're full of this supremacist nonsense and race baiting talk. they copied from White Supremacists.

Yes, we do it to Pakistanis but only to send them into fits of angst, not because that's what Islam supports.

[Kakar-Wardak]

^^^ I agree nationalisms are disaeases and Nation States are remnants of Colonial Constructs

But we should also find a Happy Medium with people and their cultures. Islam is not here to bowl over everyone's heritage. It's just here to end the stupid narrow minded ethnocentrism that comes along. Not stop people from enjoying Nawruz or dancing Attan. Those are issues Islam is not concerned with and never has been. The scholars that have tried to argue that it does cover those, are merely saying that to serve certain agendas.

Look at a few of the current members KingdomofHeaven/One1/KMD2010. They're full of this supremacist nonsense and race baiting talk. they copied from White Supremacists.

Yes, we do it to Pakistanis but only to send them into fits of angst, not because that's what Islam supports.

There is nothing wrong with being tribal this is natural human behavior, Allah made us into tribes and peoples but Imposing nationalism and ethnocentrism on others is stupid and counterproductive.

True many of these anti Islam posters, are all hypa nationalist and ethnocentrist. Bashing arabs yet at the same time wanting to impose alien marxist ideas on us.

[Qami]

You state that nation states are deriving from colonial times. But what you maybe don't see that those nation states aren't true ethnically based states but false ideological constructs. Actually all borders in our region are false borders, dividing people. And it is natural for people of the same ethnicity to want to unite and crystallize their culture. Ethnicities are like big families in that way.
That those nationalists, that use the western style "state=nationality=ideology" way of thinking exist, doesn't make it wrong to build a future for your own people, to unite and to fight when needed. Ethnicities , although related now to genetic , were originally based on oral principles that united people in the past or separated them and there is nothing wrong to keep them alife or to overthink and better them, if they are wrong or not actual anymore. If you don't love yourself, you cannot love somebody else. Those supremacist ideologists don't have real love for their people, and on hate to others you cannot build anything. But that doesn't mean that loving your own culture and keeping it far from foreign influences when possible is something bad or supremacist.

[Shamlawar Khurasani]

I just came across this. It's interesting how you guys have a jirga in the U.K. It would be cool if we had something like that or some national Pashtun associantion in the states.

I have the impression that people from Muslim countries tend to assimilate into American culture and loose their identity. Here in Europe, especially in UK, people preserve their culture and identity.

[toughpashtun]

I have the impression that people from Muslim countries tend to assimilate into American culture and loose their identity. Here in Europe, especially in UK, people preserve their culture and identity.

What you said for US and UK is true to a great extent as to what I have heard and observed.
Don't know about the rest of Europe.
I am actually interested to know how the Pashtuns(most of them are Afghan anyway) live in Europe particularly in Germany where they are in large numbers.

[Shamlawar Khurasani]

What you said for US and UK is true to a great extent as to what I have heard and observed.
Don't know about the rest of Europe.
I am actually interested to know how the Pashtuns(most of them are Afghan anyway) live in Europe particularly in Germany where they are in large numbers.

In Germany most Pashtuns are also from Afg. They are very diverse but generally more religious than Pashtuns in Holland. Many Pashtuns in Germany attend prayers in mosques and even a major Khalqi general who was involved in the communist revolution is now praying 5 times a day and reads Quran all the time.

But there are also secular Pashtuns. One thing both groups have in common is the activism for the sake of Pashtun identity. For instance, Pashtuns publish many books in Germany and are very actively involved in development of Pashto language and literature.

[RoohMalang]

I don't have a problem with Pashtun people celebrating and practicing their culture, I mean that is a God given right that Allah swt has given all people.

However, sometimes nationalists can be very narrow minded.

As a Pakistani Punjabi of course, I'm going to rep Pakistan, but at the same time I don't feel the need to belittle anyone from anywhere else.

It seems like Pashtun nationalists at times behave like Euro skinheads and say a lot of negative things about Pakistanis.

This kind of thinking should change.

[Samandri]

Pashtun nationalism can be very strong...Pashtuns can be very racist towards non Pashtuns as well lets not kid ourselvs...In this sense Afghan Tajiks/Farsiwans should seek independency and unify with us Tajiks in Tajikistan and Uzbekistan...Tajiks are the most advanced and educated people of Afghanistan both historically and currently...they are held back by the other groups....

What has happened to Tajiks in Afghanistan is very sad. They are undergoing the same fate as Tajiks in Uzbekistan when they were by forced to "Uzbekize", meaning they by governmental force identify as "Uzbek" rather than what they are: Tajik, a noble race descendend from Kings..same thing is happening in Afghanistan....its an absolute travesty that Tajiks completely have forgotten about their brothers in Tajikistan and uzbekistan (ancient Khurasan) and now call themselves "Afghan" when everyone knows Afghan means Pakhtun.

.

If you study the history of the Turkish slave dynasty of India, you will notice that there were also Tajiks (mentioned as Taziks in Tabqat-i-Nasiri) in the nobility of Turks but they were only in the role of Bureaucrats and clerics, and, Amir Khusro informs us that Tajiks had learnt Turkish language in India of their kings..... they have been in this role long before the rise of Pashtuns

[Porus]

However, sometimes nationalists can be very narrow minded.

Absolutely, I find Pakistani nationalists like yourself to be very narrow minded

[khushal]

I have the impression that people from Muslim countries tend to assimilate into American culture and loose their identity. Here in Europe, especially in UK, people preserve their culture and identity.

Thats because European Govs make you live in isolated ghettos.

[Qami]

Thats because European Govs make you live in isolated ghettos.

Dear Khushal, where in Europe such a thing happens? As far as i saw, in germany foreigners settle over a territory not concentrating in special places, with few exceptions.

[khushal]

Dear Khushal, where in Europe such a thing happens? As far as i saw, in germany foreigners settle over a territory not concentrating in special places, with few exceptions.

In the U.S., Immigrants Find Acceptance; in Europe, Ghettos - NYTimes.com

[Shamlawar Khurasani]

In the U.S., Immigrants Find Acceptance; in Europe, Ghettos - NYTimes.com

That's just his opinion. Not fact. We aren't forced to live in ghettos. People choose to live near the mosque and the halal butcher. People don't like to live in totally white areas where you have to travel for hours to attend masjid.

But when he says that some minorities live in isolated communities he is right. There are people who choose to isolate themselves. That's bad for them and their children. They don't progress and they lack education.

Many Muslims in Europe are quite ignorant and primitive because they lack proper education.

In the US it's different. Muslims are generally well educated. But that's because they didn't arrive at US shores for low paying manual labor like the Turks, Moroccans and Pakistanis in Europe. They arrived there as educated and ambitious people who then sent their own kids to universities.

[khushal]

That's just his opinion. Not fact. We aren't forced to live in ghettos. People choose to live near the mosque and the halal butcher. People don't like to live in totally white areas where you have to travel for hours to attend masjid.

But when he says that some minorities live in isolated communities he is right. There are people who choose to isolate themselves. That's bad for them and their children. They don't progress and they lack education.

Many Muslims in Europe are quite ignorant and primitive because they lack proper education.

In the US it's different. Muslims are generally well educated. But that's because they didn't arrive at US shores for low paying manual labor like the Turks, Moroccans and Pakistanis in Europe. They arrived there as educated and ambitious people who then sent their own kids to universities.

Thats true. What the North African, Middle Eastern is to Europe, the Mexicans, Guatemala, etc are to the US. Many Mexicans in the US never learn English and keep their Mexican culture intact because they live in isolated Latino communities.

But the point was why do Muslims in the US lose their culture faster than their European counterparts.

I live in the Midwest US and most mosques are in white communities. One has to drive to them unlike in Europe where I assume some people can walk to them.

[Firdousi]

Thats true. What the North African, Middle Eastern is to Europe, the Mexicans, Guatemala, etc are to the US. Many Mexicans in the US never learn English and keep their Mexican culture intact because they live in isolated Latino communities.

But the point was why do Muslims in the US lose their culture faster than their European counterparts.

I live in the Midwest US and most mosques are in white communities. One has to drive to them unlike in Europe where I assume some people can walk to them.

Muslims in Europe do learn their host country´s language. In southern Europe countries (Spain, Italy, Greece,..) there are huge northern European communities from the UK, Netherlands, Belgium, Germany,.. almost none of them bothers to learn their languages. They are like parasites living off the health system and spending the day at the bar drinking beers.

Except for France, there no ghettos in Europe. You Americans have a hilarious understating about Europe´s ground reality lol