The implications of Orlando shooting for Muslims

[Firdousi]

So you think Omar Mateen hated gays for no reason?

You don't need to be a Muslim to hate gays. There are plenty of non religious people who have some hatred toward other races, religions and cultures.

How old are you?

[Iblis_Efreetzai]

Still jelous that I can visit and go to Afghanistan without any trouble due to my Afghan pasport, I have land there on my name, have family and relatives who I still have conection with and I will remain Pashtun till I die.

You on the other hand are a paray, whose father is ex-cominicated by his Afghan family, you never put foot in Afghanistan and never will, and even if you travel to Afghanistan your status in Afghanistan will be that of a immigrant and never be a full Pashtun/Afghan. Your little kuni fuc.kdousi will be seen more as an Afghan than you ever will.

I know you boil on the inside that a secularist and free thinker like me is still more Afghan/Pashtun than you ever will be. Really sad.

Believe me there's nothing to be jealous of; you represent mental colonization and loss of values and principles simply because you're intimidated by the way Western Imperialists perceive you.I am more than content that I do not suffer from the self esteem issues that you have and I'm still confident in my values and principles without having to bow to Western Liberalism.

Calling yourself a "Free Thinker" is just jargon, used to appease the mentally colonized; there's nothing Free about being mentally colonized by Western Liberalist doctrine. Every child of an Afghan National, AUTOMATICALLY gets an Afghan passport; so there's no accomplishment here.

You're right on one thing, Firdousi is definitely much more Afghan than you are. I've been to Khost before and know they're very deeply Islamic there, If were to Openly declare your views in Khost, you'd be killed and you know it.

[Iblis_Efreetzai]

Becuase this is a public forums and a lot of people read what this dog types and a lot of the guests will think that most Pashtuns are happy with the killings and what not, becuase simply put he justified and labeled gay people as sick, and getting read of them is good, and only the methode was a bit to brutal, you really need to read between the lines and you will see what kind of jahil and backward this RTR guy is.

people should know that this yemeni is born in the west and has never traveled to Afghanistan and does not have any connection to Afghan side of the family.

So basically in summary; the reason you acted out like typical uncultured, uneducated Ghetto trash is because you're worried about what Western Social Liberals will think of you? You buy into their standards of what they deem backwards?

If you're so concerned; then what would they say about your Persistent racist and Ethnic bigotry towards Tajiks you pander? Will they say "Oh racism is ok, just as long as he conforms to our beliefs on homosexuality?"

You clearly didn't bother to read my post, nevermind "read between the lines"; if you had you'd have noted that I wrote the following:

Indeed homosexuality is an illness; it's a disorder which may have congenital ,physiological or environmental causes. People who are homosexual are sick; but like any sick person we don't kill the sick ....we try to look for ways to help them with their sickness.

Did you read between those lines or did you ignore them entirely?

This is why you failed your exams in Belgium 3 times; you have some type of autism that prevents you from comprehending things you read, rather projecting fallacies onto them ...

[Azmal]

Thanks Azmal for reply. I also think so. I fear the tension between the two communities is reaching a level where there would be little inclination towards co-existence. If not blacks or Romma's in Europe Muslims would be a marginalized community in the West and will be perceived negatively.

But are Muslims alone to be blamed for the troubles in the world today? I don't see any justice or rationality or gesture of friendship in making one people homeless in order to make home for another people (Jews, Palestinian issue).

Were Muslims responsible for all the massacres, wars, invasions, exploitation, genocides, racism, slavery, etc. for example in 20th Century and on-wards?

We don't have control over actions of others but we do have control over how we can response to these actions...but as saying goes when God wants to destroy someone will make him crazy..going on killing rampage and murdering innocent civilians is simply madness and can never ever be justified! This is not to say west is not responsible in turning Muslims crazy...but lets face the fact violence is a norm in Muslim world's politics, 3 of Caliphate Rashideen were murdered as a result of power struggle.
I simply don't understand why most Muslims are so immune when it comes to violence against Muslim by fellow Muslims..When Israel demolish Arabs home and builds wall it becomes a genocide and what not but yet when Pakistan does the exact same against Pashtuns no one mention it. The simple fact is no one knows how to screw a Muslims then fellow Muslims.

[Damir9000]

You don't need to be a Muslim to hate gays. There are plenty of non religious people who have some hatred toward other races, religions and cultures.

How old are you?

That hate stems from Religious dogma. Religion influences culture.

If the Pulse Club was located in Afghanistan, would it have been any different?

[Damir9000]

From what media reports what drove Mateen crazy was his crazy nationalist father (declare himself president of Afghanistan) not Islam. The fact is there is so much disconnect between children and their immigrant parents in this country...America is not "back home" where only back of your hand was enough to shut an inquiring mind....or emotional manipulation of the kids, with feeling of guilt and what not. Raise your kids to be independent and responsible member of society instead of "good son or daughter."

If his father was the main instigator.
Why did he attack Gay Club members & not his father?

[Damir9000]

There's no spiritual or intellectual benefit to adopt any doctrine that stems from the mental colonization of Western Liberalism. That's the reason why if you're really wondering.

Mental Colonization of Western Liberalism ?

[Damir9000]

The Problems with Muslims today is that we look at everything else to analyze our issues and problems, whether the opinion of the West, how others see us, what will others think ...what we think of ourselves....but seldom do we look at Islam..

We have been told that Islam will be looked at with apprehension, with suspicion, with opposition, with scrutiny.....This is inevitable; because Islam became established, and re-established on the Earth precisely because humans would lose their alignment with Allah.It's not people's eyes we should be affixed on, but the way Allah 'azza wa jal perceives us.

Indeed homosexuality is an illness; it's a disorder which may have congenital ,physiological or environmental causes. People who are homosexual are sick; but like any sick person we don't kill the sick ....we try to look for ways to help them with their sickness.

Being a homosexual is not "against" Islam as one does not control their orientation; what is against Islam is acting upon the inclination of homosexual desires, enabling people to engage in those activities and glorifying such behavior as acceptable and normal. This is true for any activity or behavior that are categorized as Fawahisha All Fawahisha(lewdness) are condemned in Islam, whether done by heterosexuals or homosexuals. Islam comes to end Fawahisha but not human life, human dignity or compassion. A person can only be convicted such such an act after a process determining their guilt has been established beyond reasonable doubt, either through witnesses, self confession or forensic evidence Until then, their welfare and lives are protected under Islam.

There is no such concept of "Homophobia" in Islam; this is completely manufactured idea used by Western Liberal Ideologues to urge compliance to their social agenda. What Islam acknowledges is dhulum (oppression/injustice) and 'adalah(Justice). When a person engages in fawahisha, they do DhULUM first upon themselves but then humanity at large, then upon Creation. It is for this reason, that we cannot merely act out simply according to our whims, but must follows guidelines. Hence Killing those whom have not been made halal for us to kill is a crime in Islam; it is a violation of their haquq and ranks as fasada, fasaqa and dhulum all at once. This is regardless of their orientation, religious sect, ideological beliefs or what not. Islam wants to reform humanity, not end humanity. In doing such an act we make ourselves guilty of dhulum.

This is angers Allah(swt) to allow fasada, fasaqa and dhulum to be carried out in his Creation and not do anything. What people think of us is irrelevant, you'll always have fans you'll always have critics. What Allah(swt) thinks of us is everything ....and Rabbana tells us, they do not look on those who facilitate dhulum favorably. It is not a matter of where we are or what Trump says or does; They have been saying things, this has been an almost constant flux of animus towards Muslims; But the real issue here is what we we doing to MEND our Accord with Allah(swt) first and foremost?

If Allah(swt) wanted he could make Muslims the most powerful people on Earth again, make all our issues of dependence erased. But we're in this situation precisely because we are not properly aligned with Allah(swt); and we are misaligned because we Accept even endorse DHULUM against ourselves and each other ....and ignore 'adalah for ourselves or others. Look at how most of us are bogged down in berating this ethnicity or that ethnicity; justifying violence and turmoil against one another. How will Allah(swt) grant nia'amah to people who do such things? Sure imperialism had a hand but we HANDED them the knife.

Islah Al Nafsikum ....that's our only way to be liberated, thats our only way to be independent.

That's some very nice apologetics.

[Iblis_Efreetzai]

That's some very nice apologetics.

LOL ,,,that's some vacuous unengaging response.

[Iblis_Efreetzai]

That hate stems from Religious dogma. Religion influences culture.

If the Pulse Club was located in Afghanistan, would it have been any different?

This is an anthropologicaly faulty claim since religions are said to be birthed from a culture not the other way around.

[Damir9000]

LOL ,,,that's some vacuous unengaging response.

It is what it is.
That was some fine apologetics.

[Damir9000]

This is an anthropologicaly faulty claim since religions are said to be birthed from a culture not the other way around.

So you would agree that all religions are man made?


and you forgot to answer my question.
If the Pulse Club was located in Afghanistan, would it have been any different?

[Iblis_Efreetzai]

So you would agree that all religions are man made?

NO I didn't say that, I said your argument is faulty from an anthropological perspective.


And yes it would be different, You'd find secularized people like Pashtun Nationalists probably lynching people who are openly gay because homosexuality is instinctively seen as an aberration in most human societies, regardless of religion or even lack of religion.

It was only through political agendas this was changed in Western society; where it was sidelined to claim that homosexuals have even a disorder, even though the scientific evidence currently available suggests that it's a disorder, it's just not sure if it's caused on the epigenetic level, hormonal or environmental or some interaction with all three.

[Iblis_Efreetzai]

It is what it is.
That was some fine apologetics.

circular reasoning.

[Azmal]

If his father was the main instigator.
Why did he attack Gay Club members & not his father?

From what the media reports...according to Mateen's ex-wife... his father used to call him "Kooni"...mind you in Dari language koon does not means homosexual or gay but the passive one in male to male intercourse...the active partner is NOT called Kooni. Even in kings Dari there is no such a word as homosexual...now a days some Afghan newspapers are using the newly created Iranian word "HamJensbaaz" which is made of two words Hamjens “same sex” and Baaz “player” but in court Dari the word Mahfool is used to indicate a gay person and the word Mahfool literally means passive one.
I should also mention, Afghan fathers used some very colorful curse/insult to their sons but I have never seen or heard an Afghan father calling his son "Kooni"…I would guess maybe Mateen was confused about his sexuality…maybe he was gay…maybe with this action he was trying to get his father’s approval? God knows…he sure was crazy and so is his father…go to facebook and watch his fathers video…he had declared himself president of Afghanistan.