The implications of Orlando shooting for Muslims

[Iblis_Efreetzai]

Well said, only problem is how " Allah 'azza wa jal perceives us." is based on personal/group interpretation ...specially Suni Islam...ISIS also think their action are how Allah’azza wa JAL wants it…the point is every Ahmed, and Mahmod can interpret the will of Allah and use it to justify violence.

There's a difference between interpretation and Interopolation. Interpretation is an intellectual process, which requires indepth study, comparative analysis, it's a rigorous process where all other possbilities have been examined and measured by a metric. Things like context, historical scenario, circumstance are all taken into account.

Interpolation is simply projecting a conclusion onto something, the level of intellectual depth and rigor is scant; if there's any. It relies on very superficial and shallow renderings.

ISIS are Khawarij, and historically what made the Khawarij what they were is that abandoned this intellectual process and went by superficialities. They interpolated, not interpreted.

The people who act out these erratic violent acts like Taliban, ISIS; they're precisely these Khawarij, they may see a verse, but ignore the context. They do ta'wil but don't analyze the details of the language to check if this Ta'wil is an accurate representation.

It's safe to say that Khawarij are not doing the will of Allah(swt), because people who are doing the will of Allah(swt) are very scared and concerned about whether their work represents Allah(swt)'s intent or whether they're making an error and even after a painstaking process of rigor ...always say at the end "And Allah (swt) Knows best".

[Iblis_Efreetzai]

I feel happy about it. Its always good to leave behind a barbaric tribal culture lol

Once again, Iblis is right. You are wrong. He made plenty of good points. Your "arguments" are limited to cursing and insults. Typical Pashtun nationalist :D

The only thing Pashtun left in Khostai is that his scream name is "Khostai", His worldview and ideology are perfect reflections of the Mental colonization of Western Social Liberalism.

[Khostai]

Apparently calling homosexuality a mental disorder is a PTSD Trigger for you,

Let me guess; you're Nemat Sadat?

Stop puting pics of your wife on public forums, a yemeni dog like you should have some shame.

[Khostai]

Why the personal attack? If you don't like what he says write him a refute and argue with him.

Becuase this is a public forums and a lot of people read what this dog types and a lot of the guests will think that most Pashtuns are happy with the killings and what not, becuase simply put he justified and labeled gay people as sick, and getting read of them is good, and only the methode was a bit to brutal, you really need to read between the lines and you will see what kind of jahil and backward this RTR guy is.

people should know that this yemeni is born in the west and has never traveled to Afghanistan and does not have any connection to Afghan side of the family.

[Khostai]

The only thing Pashtun left in Khostai is that his scream name is "Khostai", His worldview and ideology are perfect reflections of the Mental colonization of Western Social Liberalism.

Still jelous that I can visit and go to Afghanistan without any trouble due to my Afghan pasport, I have land there on my name, have family and relatives who I still have conection with and I will remain Pashtun till I die.

You on the other hand are a paray, whose father is ex-cominicated by his Afghan family, you never put foot in Afghanistan and never will, and even if you travel to Afghanistan your status in Afghanistan will be that of a immigrant and never be a full Pashtun/Afghan. Your little kuni fuc.kdousi will be seen more as an Afghan than you ever will.

I know you boil on the inside that a secularist and free thinker like me is still more Afghan/Pashtun than you ever will be. Really sad.

[Damir9000]

Still jelous that I can visit and go to Afghanistan without any trouble due to my Afghan pasport, I have land there on my name, have family and relatives who I still have conection with and I will remain Pashtun till I die.

You on the other hand are a paray, whose father is ex-cominicated by his Afghan family, you never put foot in Afghanistan and never will, and even if you travel to Afghanistan your status in Afghanistan will be that of a immigrant and never be a full Pashtun/Afghan. Your little kuni fuc.kdousi will be seen more as an Afghan than you ever will.

I know you boil on the inside that a secularist and free thinker like me is still more Afghan/Pashtun than you ever will be. Really sad.

It explains why he doesnt Pashtun nationalism. He can't be a part of it.

[Damir9000]

The act had nothing to do with muslims so those westerners who are wise will not blame muslims but the ones who are predujiced will blame muslims and use this as an excuse to further their own agenda.

Not quite sure whag you mean by integrate with East. Do you mean muslims should migrate to places like. China, India instead?

So you think Omar Mateen hated gays for no reason?

[Azmal]

There's a difference between interpretation and Interopolation. Interpretation is an intellectual process, which requires indepth study, comparative analysis, it's a rigorous process where all other possbilities have been examined and measured by a metric. Things like context, historical scenario, circumstance are all taken into account.

Interpolation is simply projecting a conclusion onto something, the level of intellectual depth and rigor is scant; if there's any. It relies on very superficial and shallow renderings.

ISIS are Khawarij, and historically what made the Khawarij what they were is that abandoned this intellectual process and went by superficialities. They interpolated, not interpreted.

The people who act out these erratic violent acts like Taliban, ISIS; they're precisely these Khawarij, they may see a verse, but ignore the context. They do ta'wil but don't analyze the details of the language to check if this Ta'wil is an accurate representation.

It's safe to say that Khawarij are not doing the will of Allah(swt), because people who are doing the will of Allah(swt) are very scared and concerned about whether their work represents Allah(swt)'s intent or whether they're making an error and even after a painstaking process of rigor ...always say at the end "And Allah (swt) Knows best".

I agree with most of what you say, the issue is the gap between what is preached and what is practiced is so wide by most of Muslims that you can drive a wide truck through it. These people continue to live in a fantasy world and think life will get better on its own with no effort on their part. Life is not a spectator sport. I also agree that the biggest flaw in the history of human beings has been absolute thinking. What I'm asking--trying to figure is what appeal groups like ISIL have to people like Mateen or the Pakistani couple that left their 6 months old baby and went into killing rampage? What makes mullahs back in Pakistan to issue Fetwa to kill Muslims Sheikhs like Hamza Yousuf or nouman ali khan?

[Azmal]

Becuase this is a public forums and a lot of people read what this dog types and a lot of the guests will think that most Pashtuns are happy with the killings and what not, becuase simply put he justified and labeled gay people as sick, and getting read of them is good, and only the methode was a bit to brutal, you really need to read between the lines and you will see what kind of jahil and backward this RTR guy is.

people should know that this yemeni dog is born in the west and has never traveled to Afghanistan and does not have any connection to Afghan side of the family.

He is presenting his view...from his Islamic prospective...he only represent himself here no one else. There are religious Cristian that are calling this God's punishment of gays. You will be surprise how many "Muslim", "Christian' or "Jew" if not approve but will not disapprove the cold murder of gays. So relax, no one will judge you by his action...I promise. lol

[Azmal]

So you think Omar Mateen hated gays for no reason?

From what media reports what drove Mateen crazy was his crazy nationalist father (declare himself president of Afghanistan) not Islam. The fact is there is so much disconnect between children and their immigrant parents in this country...America is not "back home" where only back of your hand was enough to shut an inquiring mind....or emotional manipulation of the kids, with feeling of guilt and what not. Raise your kids to be independent and responsible member of society instead of "good son or daughter."

[Toramana]

Salamona Grana,
I remember once I read a quote that went like West won the world not by the superiority of its ideas or values or religion but by its superiority in applying mass organized violence. Most people often forget this fact…sadly for Muslims in America it going to get much worst no matter who wins the election. Trump is a showman; he is brilliant manipulator who says the right things at right time. The real backlash of this senseless cold blooded murder by retard/mentally ill Muslim in name of Islam will come from American people. Muslims are/will be the new blacks in America and it is Muslims themselves to be blamed.

Thanks Azmal for reply. I also think so. I fear the tension between the two communities is reaching a level where there would be little inclination towards co-existence. If not blacks or Romma's in Europe Muslims would be a marginalized community in the West and will be perceived negatively.

But are Muslims alone to be blamed for the troubles in the world today? I don't see any justice or rationality or gesture of friendship in making one people homeless in order to make home for another people (Jews, Palestinian issue).

Were Muslims responsible for all the massacres, wars, invasions, exploitation, genocides, racism, slavery, etc. for example in 20th Century and on-wards?

[Toramana]

The Problems with Muslims today is that we look at everything else to analyze our issues and problems, whether the opinion of the West, how others see us, what will others think ...what we think of ourselves....but seldom do we look at Islam..

We have been told that Islam will be looked at with apprehension, with suspicion, with opposition, with scrutiny.....This is inevitable; because Islam became established, and re-established on the Earth precisely because humans would lose their alignment with Allah.It's not people's eyes we should be affixed on, but the way Allah 'azza wa jal perceives us.

Indeed homosexuality is an illness; it's a disorder which may have congenital ,physiological or environmental causes. People who are homosexual are sick; but like any sick person we don't kill the sick ....we try to look for ways to help them with their sickness.

Being a homosexual is not "against" Islam as one does not control their orientation; what is against Islam is acting upon the inclination of homosexual desires, enabling people to engage in those activities and glorifying such behavior as acceptable and normal. This is true for any activity or behavior that are categorized as Fawahisha All Fawahisha(lewdness) are condemned in Islam, whether done by heterosexuals or homosexuals. Islam comes to end Fawahisha but not human life, human dignity or compassion. A person can only be convicted such such an act after a process determining their guilt has been established beyond reasonable doubt, either through witnesses, self confession or forensic evidence Until then, their welfare and lives are protected under Islam.

There is no such concept of "Homophobia" in Islam; this is completely manufactured idea used by Western Liberal Ideologues to urge compliance to their social agenda. What Islam acknowledges is dhulum (oppression/injustice) and 'adalah(Justice). When a person engages in fawahisha, they do DhULUM first upon themselves but then humanity at large, then upon Creation. It is for this reason, that we cannot merely act out simply according to our whims, but must follows guidelines. Hence Killing those whom have not been made halal for us to kill is a crime in Islam; it is a violation of their haquq and ranks as fasada, fasaqa and dhulum all at once. This is regardless of their orientation, religious sect, ideological beliefs or what not. Islam wants to reform humanity, not end humanity. In doing such an act we make ourselves guilty of dhulum.

This is angers Allah(swt) to allow fasada, fasaqa and dhulum to be carried out in his Creation and not do anything. What people think of us is irrelevant, you'll always have fans you'll always have critics. What Allah(swt) thinks of us is everything ....and Rabbana tells us, they do not look on those who facilitate dhulum favorably. It is not a matter of where we are or what Trump says or does; They have been saying things, this has been an almost constant flux of animus towards Muslims; But the real issue here is what we we doing to MEND our Accord with Allah(swt) first and foremost?

If Allah(swt) wanted he could make Muslims the most powerful people on Earth again, make all our issues of dependence erased. But we're in this situation precisely because we are not properly aligned with Allah(swt); and we are misaligned because we Accept even endorse DHULUM against ourselves and each other ....and ignore 'adalah for ourselves or others. Look at how most of us are bogged down in berating this ethnicity or that ethnicity; justifying violence and turmoil against one another. How will Allah(swt) grant nia'amah to people who do such things? Sure imperialism had a hand but we HANDED them the knife.

Islah Al Nafsikum ....that's our only way to be liberated, thats our only way to be independent.

Although, I might not agree with what you have said above but I appreciate your reformist type of interpretation of religious teachings. More such debates and interpretation as to meaning of religious teaching are needed for the society to become dynamic and tolerant.

[Iblis_Efreetzai]

Although, I might not agree with what you have said above but I appreciate your reformist type of interpretation of religious teachings. More such debates and interpretation as to meaning of religious teaching are needed for the society to become dynamic and tolerant.

This is not the reformist actually; this is a well established narrative in Islam I people confuse Khawarij with Traditionalism, but they're actually counter the mainstream narrative.

[Iblis_Efreetzai]

Stop puting pics of your wife on public forums, a yemeni dog like you should have some shame.

Stop trying to deflect Khostai; first you're upset because the idea that homosexuality is a disorder contradicts your Western Liberalism indoctrination and now you're trying to distance yourself from Nemat Sadat. He's a "Gay Rights Activist" just as you seem to be.

[Iblis_Efreetzai]

It explains why he doesnt Pashtun nationalism. He can't be a part of it.

There's no spiritual or intellectual benefit to adopt any doctrine that stems from the mental colonization of Western Liberalism. That's the reason why if you're really wondering.