What would 'Great Afghanistan' actually look like?

[Porus]

'Great Afghanistan' as usually portrayed by Afghan nationalists



The new map of Afghanistan encompassing; modern-day Afghanistan, Khyber Pakhtunkhwa, Federally Administered Tribal Areas (FATA) and Pakistani Balochistan.

What's wrong with this map?

Well, considering that the purpose of Afghan nationalism is to reunite ethnic Pashtuns from across the Durand line, this map does a good job of it. However, the extension of territory into Balochistan is not something I can understand.

Balochistan was for a brief period part of the Durrani confederate. This is the normal argument that is portrayed by Afghan nationalists.

What they fail to mention is, Punjab, Sindh and Kashmir were also a part of the confederacy... but there is no desire to include these areas. The Balouch are not any closer to Pashtuns than they are to Punjabis or Sindhis either. They are an independent ethnic group with their own territory.

Moreover, Balochistan actually acquired its independence from Afghanistan during Ahmad Khan Abdali's own lifetime. [Refer to Noori Naseer Khan Baloch] It remained an independent state and later became a British protectorate called the 'Kalat Confederacy', comprising all the areas south of British Balochistan (Chief Commissioner's Province)




So what is Loy Afghanistan?



Some might say this is more accurate, as it only includes the areas of Pakistan with Pashtun majority populations.

But wait a second, what is the north of Afghanistan doing in this map?

If the purpose of Pashtun nationalism is to unite Pashtuns in a single country, then wouldn't it be accurate to divide the Pashtun dominated areas in modern-day Afghanistan from - Hazarajat & the Uzbek-Turkmen-Tajik dominated North? After all, the culture of Balkh, Badakhshan, Jowzjan and Herat is very different from that of Kandahar, Helmand, Jalalabad or Nangarhar.


What I'm proposing is, in order for Loy Afghanistan to exist, the Afghan nationalists must first recognise that there is no reason to keep control over areas which belong to different ethnic groups. The northern Afghans are Persians, Uzbeks or Turkmen, while you are 'Afghans'. So rather than just claiming territory east of the Durand line, you must also accept the separation of Pashtuns from the other Afghan national ethnic groups.




Where Dari begins, Afghanistan ends.

[DSM0305]

First of all, there isn't any movement or any issue regarding a greater Afghanistan. So the issue you're trying to discuss doesn't exist.

Secondly, the map dividing Pashtuns and non Pashtuns is incorrect. One can clearly see that it is made in paint... and I fail to understand how one can draw conclusion based on a map that is drawn in paint...
Lets assume we wanted to divide Afghanistan between Pashtun and non Pashtun, then the Pashtun area would extend all the way to Herat to the west. Many northern provinces are multi ethnic, consisting a huge number of Pashtuns. The number is at least 5 million if not higher(more than the entire Hazara population).

The culture of Balkh, Herat, Badakhsan ets. is different than that of Jalalabad, Kandahar etc. how so... It is an empty slogan that is stuck in western born fascist teens, claiming somehow that these areas have a different culture.

Let me clarify the reality of Afghanistan. There is two different cultures in Afghanistan; rural and urban.
The urban population of Badakshan is no different than the urban population of Kandahar. The rural population is no different in Balkh to the rural population of Nangahar.
I am not saying that dividing Afghanistan shouldn't be discussed, but the division should be discussed based on facts. Different culture is such a far fetched thing that I cant understand where it come from. Walking no more than an hour in Kabul will make even a child question this idiotic statement.

[Loy Afghanistan]

Iranian people should stay together and put forward the ancient ones. The mix raced and invaders should leave our lands peacefully or decrease their population. May truth and evidence guide our noble way.

[Sarbani]

It would be modern Afghanistan + FATA + KPK + the Pashtun regions of Balochistan (including Quetta).

[Firdousi]

'Great Afghanistan' as usually portrayed by Afghan nationalists



The new map of Afghanistan encompassing; modern-day Afghanistan, Khyber Pakhtunkhwa, Federally Administered Tribal Areas (FATA) and Pakistani Balochistan.

What's wrong with this map?

Well, considering that the purpose of Afghan nationalism is to reunite ethnic Pashtuns from across the Durand line, this map does a good job of it. However, the extension of territory into Balochistan is not something I can understand.

Balochistan was for a brief period part of the Durrani confederate. This is the normal argument that is portrayed by Afghan nationalists.

What they fail to mention is, Punjab, Sindh and Kashmir were also a part of the confederacy... but there is no desire to include these areas. The Balouch are not any closer to Pashtuns than they are to Punjabis or Sindhis either. They are an independent ethnic group with their own territory.

Moreover, Balochistan actually acquired its independence from Afghanistan during Ahmad Khan Abdali's own lifetime. [Refer to Noori Naseer Khan Baloch] It remained an independent state and later became a British protectorate called the 'Kalat Confederacy', comprising all the areas south of British Balochistan (Chief Commissioner's Province)




So what is Loy Afghanistan?



Some might say this is more accurate, as it only includes the areas of Pakistan with Pashtun majority populations.

But wait a second, what is the north of Afghanistan doing in this map?

If the purpose of Pashtun nationalism is to unite Pashtuns in a single country, then wouldn't it be accurate to divide the Pashtun dominated areas in modern-day Afghanistan from - Hazarajat & the Uzbek-Turkmen-Tajik dominated North? After all, the culture of Balkh, Badakhshan, Jowzjan and Herat is very different from that of Kandahar, Helmand, Jalalabad or Nangarhar.


What I'm proposing is, in order for Loy Afghanistan to exist, the Afghan nationalists must first recognise that there is no reason to keep control over areas which belong to different ethnic groups. The northern Afghans are Persians, Uzbeks or Turkmen, while you are 'Afghans'. So rather than just claiming territory east of the Durand line, you must also accept the separation of Pashtuns from the other Afghan national ethnic groups.




Where Dari begins, Afghanistan ends.

Loy Awghanistan is a wet dream that will never come true. Most of Pathans are proud Pakistanis. Also in Afghanistan most of non-Pashtuns don't care at all about it. We are not strong enough to take it by force. Even many Pashtuns have given up on it. Its a lost cause.

Partition of Afhgnistan, on the other hand, would happen just in case of an hypothetical Taliban take over of southern and eastern provinces. So far this does not seem possible. So far this does not seem to happen. Taliban spring offensive is failing badly.

Partition would lead to a bloodbath, misery and destruction. Afghanistan is a mixed ethnic country. There are plenty of Pashtuns in the north and the west (shindand, Adraskan, Pashtun Zarghoon, Murghab, Chahar Bolak,.. and so on). There are also many non Pashtun pockets in the south and the east (Helmand, Kandhar, Logar, Laghman, Ghazni, Paktia, Urgun,.. and so on).

As an ethnic Tajik from Herat I must say most of our Pashtun people are pretty well integrated into Tajik/Persian/Herati culture: they celebrate Nowruz, they speak Farsi, they live among Tajiks, they have intermarried with Tajiks,. they are sunni hanafis like us.. only Pashtun thing it left in them is their Pashtun surnames. Sooner or later they will become completely Tajiks. I don't want to kick them out. Herat is their home. They are our brothers. Only those fascist troublemaker Pashtuns must be forced to leave.

[Golden]

very easy, see this is proper map with some changes



Forget about areas in northen region of Afghanistan, they can migrate to southern or eastern areas.

[Golden]

this is also good map, I agree with this

[Golden]

Loy Awghanistan is a wet dream that will never come true. Most of Pathans are proud Pakistanis. Also in Afghanistan most of non-Pashtuns don't care at all about it. We are not strong enough to take it by force. Even many Pashtuns have given up on it. Its a lost cause.

Partition of Afhgnistan, on the other hand, would happen just in case of an hypothetical Taliban take over of southern and eastern provinces. So far this does not seem possible. So far this does not seem to happen. Taliban spring offensive is failing badly.

Partition would lead to a bloodbath, misery and destruction. Afghanistan is a mixed ethnic country. There are plenty of Pashtuns in the north and the west (shindand, Adraskan, Pashtun Zarghoon, Murghab, Chahar Bolak,.. and so on). There are also many non Pashtun pockets in the south and the east (Helmand, Kandhar, Logar, Laghman, Ghazni, Paktia, Urgun,.. and so on).

As an ethnic Tajik from Herat I must say most of our Pashtun people are pretty well integrated into Tajik/Persian/Herati culture: they celebrate Nowruz, they speak Farsi, they live among Tajiks, they have intermarried with Tajiks,. they are sunni hanafis like us.. only Pashtun thing it left in them is their Pashtun surnames. Sooner or later they will become completely Tajiks. I don't want to kick them out. Herat is their home. They are our brothers. Only those fascist troublemaker Pashtuns must be forced to leave.

There shouldn't be any bloodbath, we are not talking about war. It will be decided by referendum held in both countries and what ever the result people can migrate peacefully to their place of choice.

[Porus]

First of all, there isn't any movement or any issue regarding a greater Afghanistan. So the issue you're trying to discuss doesn't exist.

I probably know more about this than you do then. Afghan nationalists have existed since the Durand line was certified. Yeah, I'm bringing this up on a Pashtun forum, where it'd be most likely to find Afghan nationalists.

Secondly, the map dividing Pashtuns and non Pashtuns is incorrect. One can clearly see that it is made in paint... and I fail to understand how one can draw conclusion based on a map that is drawn in paint...

Find a better map. Don't just sit there and cry about it.

Lets assume we wanted to divide Afghanistan between Pashtun and non Pashtun, then the Pashtun area would extend all the way to Herat to the west. Many northern provinces are multi ethnic, consisting a huge number of Pashtuns. The number is at least 5 million if not higher(more than the entire Hazara population).

Hm. They're certainly not a majority in the North. There might be scattered communities but definitely not a majority anywhere up north.

The culture of Balkh, Herat, Badakhsan ets. is different than that of Jalalabad, Kandahar etc. how so... It is an empty slogan that is stuck in western born fascist teens, claiming somehow that these areas have a different culture.

Lol are you serious?

Let me clarify the reality of Afghanistan. There is two different cultures in Afghanistan; rural and urban.

That's such bullcrap. I could easily say the same thing about Peshawar and Lahore. Don't confuse **** here. We're talking about a Persian-north vs a Pashtun-south.

I am not saying that dividing Afghanistan shouldn't be discussed, but the division should be discussed based on facts. Different culture is such a far fetched thing that I cant understand where it come from. Walking no more than an hour in Kabul will make even a child question this idiotic statement.

Kabul is like Karachi, or Tehran. It's a very mixed city. Seems that the only person who's being an idiot is you, you're claiming that there's no discrepancy in cultures in Afghanistan? Hazaras, Turkmen, Uzbeks and Tajiks each have their own unique culture, separate from Pashtuns and Pashtunwali and you can't deny that. The fact is that their areas were conquered by Ahmad Shah and that's why they are there. Try opening your eyes to facts before you get on here and say 'stupid this' and 'i fail to understand...' that.

[Da Bannu Mazdigar]

Porus a brave soldier but he wasn't indian but Pakistani

[Firdousi]

There shouldn't be any bloodbath, we are not talking about war. It will be decided by referendum held in both countries and what ever the result people can migrate peacefully to their place of choice.

Please, remind me the last partition where war and bloodbath were not involved in? How did it work for you Indians? I mean Indian Muslims and Indian Hindus killed each other in almost everywhere.

Anyway no one wants partition in Afghanistna. Its just an online phenomenon just like loy Afghanistan. No political party, no institutions, no province,.. is asking for partition. Most of Afghans love their country and only in case of disaster, worst scenario like a Tlaiban take over they would accept partition. I guess this happens in Pakistan too.

[Firdousi]

Porus a brave soldier but he wasn't indian but Pakistani

Pakistan and India are one country. Tell me, whats the difference between an Indian Muslim and a Pakistani? For God sake stop with the hatred and your made up history and join your motherland India once again.

[Porus]

Porus a brave soldier but he wasn't indian but Pakistani

What was Pakistan before 1947?

[Golden]

Pakistan and India are one country. Tell me, whats the difference between an Indian Muslim and a Pakistani? For God sake stop with the hatred and your made up history and join your motherland India once again.

Damn here we have to read same BS posts about how hazaras and tajiks living in same small area are culturarly and ethnically different yet 1.5 billion Pakistanis and Indians are similar.

[Jamal120]

Loy Awghanistan is a wet dream that will never come true. Most of Pathans are proud Pakistanis. Also in Afghanistan most of non-Pashtuns don't care at all about it. We are not strong enough to take it by force. Even many Pashtuns have given up on it. Its a lost cause.

Partition of Afhgnistan, on the other hand, would happen just in case of an hypothetical Taliban take over of southern and eastern provinces. So far this does not seem possible. So far this does not seem to happen. Taliban spring offensive is failing badly.

Partition would lead to a bloodbath, misery and destruction. Afghanistan is a mixed ethnic country. There are plenty of Pashtuns in the north and the west (shindand, Adraskan, Pashtun Zarghoon, Murghab, Chahar Bolak,.. and so on). There are also many non Pashtun pockets in the south and the east (Helmand, Kandhar, Logar, Laghman, Ghazni, Paktia, Urgun,.. and so on).

As an ethnic Tajik from Herat I must say most of our Pashtun people are pretty well integrated into Tajik/Persian/Herati culture: they celebrate Nowruz, they speak Farsi, they live among Tajiks, they have intermarried with Tajiks,. they are sunni hanafis like us.. only Pashtun thing it left in them is their Pashtun surnames. Sooner or later they will become completely Tajiks. I don't want to kick them out. Herat is their home. They are our brothers. Only those fascist troublemaker Pashtuns must be forced to leave.

You do realize Pashtuns are Hanafi Sunnis as well?